[Messiahtosh]

I'm wondering here, with the recent Intel developments, about Apple's true plans for the future with regards to its business model. Of course Apple's profits are mainly derived from the sales of its hardware, but with OS X on Intel, changing to a software driven company is possible...if dangerous. Obviously, if Apple just immediately opened up OS X to any generic PC, it would be problematic. Before Apple would do such a thing, they'd have to have a hefty installed user base....or.

Why not sell OS X for about the price of a Mac mini? Wouldn't it be cheaper for Apple to sell the software with OS X than the Mac mini? And surely their profit margins would be higher on software that costs literally cents to produce (which obviously doesn't take into account the R&D and employee costs), but still; compare that to the cost of producing/designing a low end PC with not much of a profit margin! Scrap the Mac mini and sell OS X to PCs for about $400.

Why not?

[Kickaha]

And you think people bitch now about $129 every 18 months...

[The Return of the 'nut]

The minute they release OS X as a retail product that works on any Intel based PC is the minute it is hacked to work on anything for free. Cost of retail package means nothing when everything will be bootlegged. It's crucial for Apple to maintain their hardware sales. The only possibility is Apple licensing OS X to other manufacter's (sony) and requiring to implement similar ROMs on their motherboards

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Kickaha And you think people bitch now about $129 every 18 months...

Well, what woud you rather have if you're a PC user? You really want OS X but already have a greatly fast PC. A 1.5 GHz Mac mini G4 (let's say that's what it is on the next revision) or your current 3.6 GHz Pentium 4 (for the sake of argument.

So you could go out and completely reinvest in a new computer and OS or you could just lay out the $400 and get yourself a virus free, Mac OS computing environment.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut The minute they release OS X as a retail product that works on any Intel based PC is the minute it is hacked to work on anything for free. Cost of retail package means nothing when everything will be bootlegged. It's crucial for Apple to maintain their hardware sales. The only possibility is Apple licensing OS X to other manufacter's (sony) and requiring to implement similar ROMs on their motherboards

Are all Windows machines running bootlegged copies?

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Are all Windows machines running bootlegged copies?

Does windows cost 400 dollars and not come preinstalled on all PCs?

[torifile]

From the posting guidelines.

Threads consisting of unsubstantiated individual predictions about upcoming products are not allowed. Threads that are blatant trolls, offer no content, or are redundant will be locked.

Any real information about this or are you just talking out your ass???

[Kickaha]

What 'Nut said.

I would hazard that the number of legally purchased copies of Windows that are not:

1) Installed on the computer at purchase time and not yet upgraded
2) In businesses where they need to keep track of such things

... is pretty damned small. *MOST* people I know have pirated Windows copies on their home systems. Very few ever purchase it.

[Luca]

Windows XP costs $200-$300 (for XP Home/Pro) to buy it separately. Obviously it costs a lot less for Dell or whoever to buy a zillion OEM copies to include with their systems... even buying an OEM copy from yourself from a place like NewEgg costs about $90-$150. So I would imagine Dell gets a very good deal. I can't see anyone spending $400 on a different operating system for their current PC. You say that convincing someone to buy a Mac mini for $500 to replace their generic PC is a hard sell... well, convincing that same person to upgrade their software for almost as much is a much, much harder sell.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Kickaha What 'Nut said. I would hazard that the number of legally purchased copies of Windows that are not: 1) Installed on the computer at purchase time and not yet upgraded 2) In businesses where they need to keep track of such things ... is pretty damned small. *MOST* people I know have pirated Windows copies on their home systems. Very few ever purchase it.

I think you underestimate the number of people that do just buy Windows, as it may be staggeringly high in comparisson to the bootlegging niche.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Luca Windows XP costs $200-$300 (for XP Home/Pro) to buy it separately. Obviously it costs a lot less for Dell or whoever to buy a zillion OEM copies to include with their systems... even buying an OEM copy from yourself from a place like NewEgg costs about $90-$150. So I would imagine Dell gets a very good deal. I can't see anyone spending $400 on a different operating system for their current PC. You say that convincing someone to buy a Mac mini for $500 to replace their generic PC is a hard sell... well, convincing that same person to upgrade their software for almost as much is a much, much harder sell.

If it's better hardware, why?

[torifile]

I think you underestimate the rest of the world. Just this morning I heard that the gov't of Indonesia got caught using 10's of thousands of illegal copies of MS software and had to pay restitution (something piddly like one $ per illegal copy) and promise to only used licensed stuff from now on.

If the gov'ts of other countries are using pirated copies, what do you think their citizens are doing?

[Kickaha]

Because not everyone is affluent? Most people will steal something they want that is out of their comfort zone of price if they can, and figure they won't get caught.

For you, $400 or $500 is nothing. For most people, it's quite a bit.

[Luca]

No, not really. Who buys Windows? I bet over 90% of Windows sales are OEM bundles. Just the copy you get from Gateway when you buy a computer from them. How many PC users do you know who are still running whichever version of Windows shipped on their computer? I know a lot. And usually the ones who upgrade to XP do so because their kid tells them so, and the kid finds a pirated copy and installs it without their parents even knowing.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Luca No, not really. Who buys Windows? I bet over 90% of Windows sales are OEM bundles. Just the copy you get from Gateway when you buy a computer from them. How many PC users do you know who are still running whichever version of Windows shipped on their computer? I know a lot. And usually the ones who upgrade to XP do so because their kid tells them so, and the kid finds a pirated copy and installs it without their parents even knowing.

Yep, it ALL works that way.

[Kickaha]

Now you're just being bitter.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Now you're just being bitter.

Not really. I'm being practical. I seriously doubt that there isn't a market for $400 software when it leaves you with a better PC instead of ditching the entire machine for a lesser one.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Yep, it ALL works that way.

Have you READ any of this thread or are you going to steadfastly hold to your (pretty dumb) idea?

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by torifile Have you READ any of this thread or are you going to steadfastly hold to your (pretty dumb) idea?

Now why would you ask a question that you already know the answer to?

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Not really. I'm being practical. I seriously doubt that there isn't a market for $400 software when it leaves you with a better PC instead of ditching the entire machine for a lesser one.

We're not disputing that it would be a good decision. But you won't convince hardly anyone to go along with it.

[morningstarrising]

Well if it's going to be 400 , it better come with iLife0X, with brand new features and applications that would get PC users to dump Windows.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by morningstarrising Well if it's going to be 400 , it better come with iLife0X, with brand new features and applications that would get PC users to dump Windows.

As much as I love apple, I wouldn't spend $400 to get OS X running on the PC we have at home. $400 is WAY WAY too much money for software. I can't even convince myself that the entire Adobe CS is worth the $399 it would cost through the book store.

[Luca]

Yeah, $400 for a full "PC Upgrade Package" with OS X, iLife, iWork, .Mac, and maybe some kind of special thing for Windows users might be kind of cool. But I think Apple would rather just sell Macs than try to sell the OS as a real money-making product.

[morningstarrising]

yeah, and I rather keep buying Macs, then have to buy a Dell ever again...

[Luca]

It would be kind of cool to be able to make a custom-built PC and install OS X on it, but it wouldn't make any business sense. Also, charging a huge premium for the privilege of being able to install it on custom (non-Apple) hardware is pretty dumb. They should either allow it or not.

[morningstarrising]

If Apple would ever go down that road, it'd really would depend on where the iPod goes the next two-three years(After the intel switch). If it's not hot anymore, and the whole movie thing flops, this would deter Apple from selling just software .

[JayReding]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh I'm wondering here, with the recent Intel developments, about Apple's true plans for the future with regards to its business model. Of course Apple's profits are mainly derived from the sales of its hardware, but with OS X on Intel, changing to a software driven company is possible...if dangerous. Obviously, if Apple just immediately opened up OS X to any generic PC, it would be problematic. Before Apple would do such a thing, they'd have to have a hefty installed user base....or. Why not sell OS X for about the price of a Mac mini? Wouldn't it be cheaper for Apple to sell the software with OS X than the Mac mini? And surely their profit margins would be higher on software that costs literally cents to produce (which obviously doesn't take into account the R&D and employee costs), but still; compare that to the cost of producing/designing a low end PC with not much of a profit margin! Scrap the Mac mini and sell OS X to PCs for about $400. Why not?

Rule #1: Apple is a company that is all about creating a positive user experience.
Rule #2: See Rule #1
Rule #3: If still confused, engrave Rule #1 into forehead in mirrored type.

There is a good reason why Apple will more than likely never allow OS X to be installed on commodity PCs. It's because they suck. 90% of them are made with crappy off-the-shelf hardware with crappy drivers that cause all sorts of problems.

And when the user's PC can't handle OS X because it has a motherboard made by some fly-by-night company, it ain't the motherboard manufacturer that's gonna get blamed - it's gonna be Apple.

If you don't control the hardware, you don't control the experience, and if you don't control the experience, you're just another schmuck trying to compete with Microsoft on their own territory. And then you end up like Amiga, Be, NeXT, etc...

[Banana]

Seem to me it's much more simpler to require a ROM or some kind of hardware check than to enforce product key.

Seriously, go to bittorrent. See how many times Windows has been cracked.

Granted, hardware fixes can be cracked eventually, but would discourage an average law-breaking Joe, and besides, do you think AppleCare will be getting a call in middle of night...

"Hello, this is Maya at Applecare. How may I help you?"

"Your stupid OS X sucks! It totally ruined my computer and made a 1.3 kiloton explosion! I demand restitution!"

"Certainly, sir. Would you mind telling me what computer you're running?"

"AMD Operton, with ASUS motherboard, 90 GB RAM, 100,000 GB HD, [insert more specs]"

"I see, sir. Please remain seated and calm. Authorities are coming."

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by morningstarrising yeah, and I rather keep buying Macs, then have to buy a Dell ever again...

This would be for people who ALREADY have a Dell....

[Kickaha]

At which point it's either:

$0-149 for Windows upgrade
$400 for MacOS X

Hmmm. Gee. That's a toughie.

Look, the folks who are going to be interested in MacOS X will find a pirated copy and run it if they can. They're not going to blow some insane amount of money just to try it out. This isn't a business plan worth the bits it was written with.