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17-inch MacBook Pro at NAB?


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17-inch MacBook Pro at NAB?
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Dave Hagan
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2006-04-19, 12:14

NAB looks like it will be the venue for Apple to release its Intel 17-inch MacBook Pro, replacing the 17-inch PowerBook, according to AppleInsider.

According to the article, it will have more storage options. Personally, I wonder how they will re-work the inner components to allow for a 2nd hard drive. Nonetheless, if an additional hard drive inside the computer is true, that's great!

One of the other things that I hope that Apple does in addition to the expanded storage capacity in the 17-inch MBP is to provide a better display capable of 300 nits or brighter (like the Cinema Displays) and a wider viewing angle. I don't care much if the display doesn't scale much beyond what it already resolves for pixel dimensions.

Finally, three small points that are relatively one big point all taken together...I hope that it will have the faster dual-layer 8x SuperDrive that was omitted from the 15-inch MBP. Although this doesn't matter to me too much, it's almost is a necessity if it's being marketed to the NAB crowd. I hope that Apple isn't being so persnickety about making this notebook thinner than the 17-inch PowerBook, which was the principle reason for the drive problem in the 15-inch MBP. Secondly, I hope they can squeeze in Firewire 800. I know that it may not be a part of the Intel spec on this motherboard, but this is almost necessary for HD work, again, if it's being marketed to the NAB crowd. And lastly, although they're talking speeds of 2.1GHz, I hope that this notebook isn't going to be $3,299. That would be too expensive.
 
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2006-04-19, 12:38

A few points:
1) a desktop-like backlight is not going to happen, because that would make the display half of the laptop significantly thicker and heavier, not to mention it would cost too much energy.
2) likewise, I don't see Apple going back to a thicker MBP design either. However, faster ultra-slim-line DL 8x drives will eventually arrive anyway, making this problem temporary.
3) I'd be very surprised to see FireWire 800 return. It has nothing to do with Intel, btw. The Intel chipset doesn't support FireWire 400 either; the FireWire implementation is up for Apple and third parties, not Intel.
 
Dr_LHA
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2006-04-19, 12:50

Isn't FW800 mainly used for by video editing professionals? In that case if they're going to debut the 17" MBP at NAB they'd be silly not to include FW800. Its not like they couldn't fit it in.
 
chucker
 
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2006-04-19, 12:58

It's not like they couldn't fit a floppy drive in.
 
julesstoop
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2006-04-19, 12:59

I think, honestly, that FireWire 800 is soon to be overshadowed by eSATA for storage purposes at least.
Apple might just want to include one of these eSATA ports and be an early adopter just as they were with FireWire 800.

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Dr_LHA
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2006-04-19, 13:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
It's not like they couldn't fit a floppy drive in.
No need to be facetious. I honestly think there will be quite a few video editing people who are going to be wondering what they're going to plug their FW800 RAID boxes into.

Good point about eSATA though julesstoop.
 
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2006-04-19, 13:06

Yes, I'd very much like to see eSATA, but:
1) eSATA does not provide power. An eSATA-based hard drive that could otherwise be powered with, say, FireWire, would need an additional cable for power (occupying a USB port, for example).
2) eSATA does not provide FireWire's bandwidth and latency guarantees, so it's not a video solution.
 
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2006-04-19, 13:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_LHA
No need to be facetious.
Just trying to make a point.

Quote:
I honestly think there will be quite a few video editing people who are going to be wondering what they're going to plug their FW800 RAID boxes into.

Good point about eSATA though julesstoop.
For mere fast storage, eSATA is a much better solution than FW800 anyway. FW800's only true advantage is for video editing, and in that case, FW400 is generally deemed good enough.
 
Mac Donald
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2006-04-19, 13:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
It's not like they couldn't fit a floppy drive in.
And a PS/2 port! How's a brother supposed to use external mice and keyboards.

I can't buy a Mac anyway --- no version of AdAware, DiskDefragmenter, and Norton AV. Those programs are essential for me, and without Mac versions, computing just doesn't work for me.

Someone hacked my signature. I demand an investigation.
 
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2006-04-19, 13:13

What, no defragmentation? This OS sucks.

*cue Kickaha in 5… 4…*
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 13:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Yes, I'd very much like to see eSATA, but:
1) eSATA does not provide power. An eSATA-based hard drive that could otherwise be powered with, say, FireWire, would need an additional cable for power (occupying a USB port, for example).
2) eSATA does not provide FireWire's bandwidth and latency guarantees, so it's not a video solution.
What external hard drive (not an iPod) is powered by Firewire? I've never seen one. It seems like of silly to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_LHA
I honestly think there will be quite a few video editing people who are going to be wondering what they're going to plug their FW800 RAID boxes into.
As someone that's going to film school, I don't know of any equipment that uses FW800. I could be totally wrong, but I think Apple is the only one who adopted FW800. So what camera manufacturing company would have reasoning to include it if more than 80% (my total guesstimate) use P.C.s? So not including FW800 does not exclude video professionals to my knowledge. The only thing it would effect is those FW800 External HDs, which support FW400 anyway. I don't think not including FW800 will render any equipment useless.
 
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2006-04-19, 13:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
What external hard drive (not an iPod) is powered by Firewire? I've never seen one. It seems kind of silly to me.


You're joking, right?

FireWire-powered external hard drives are very, very common. They provide higher bandwidth than USB 2, more power (so in many more cases, you won't need an external power adapter / additional power cable), lower latency, much lower CPU usage, and many more features. Most decent hard drive enclosures are combo, that is, they provide both FireWire and USB 2.

Also, most RAID enclosures are FireWire-only.

Quote:
what camera manufacturing company would have reasoning to include it if more than 80% (my total guesstimate) use P.C.s?
Um, many PCs already have FireWire anyway, so I fail to see your point. FireWire 800, no, but then again, I have clearly argued against FW800 in this thread anyway.
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 13:28

On a more interesting note (to me), was the mention on MacRumors of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Rumors
...the 13.3" MacBook is said to have been pushed to "next month".
Why? Why release a second incarnation of the MacBook Pro when the ONLY things left to release is a MacBook and a PowerMac/Mac Pro/Intel whichimagiger desktop? The desktop is obviously going to be a few months. But the chips are for the MacBook are ready NOW. Look at the Mac mini. It's not like Apple has no experience in putting those chips in a small area (the iMac, MacBook Pro, and Mac mini are all pretty compact). So they don't really have to tackle a whole-new issue. There are so many people clamoring for a MacBook which hasn't been updated in over a year I think? The PowerBooks were updated last fall.
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 13:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker

You're joking, right?

FireWire-powered external hard drives are very, very common. They provide higher bandwidth than USB 2, more power (so in many more cases, you won't need an external power adapter / additional power cable), lower latency, much lower CPU usage, and many more features. Most decent hard drive enclosures are combo, that is, they provide both FireWire and USB 2.

Also, most RAID enclosures are FireWire-only.
I think you miss understood my point. I was saying that eternal hard drives that were POWERED via firewire. Not firewire supported. I don't know of Firewire HDs that need to use Firewire for it's power supply along with data transfer. It wouldn't make sense because most people (P.C.s) would use USB 2.0, which does not supply power. Every external HD I've seen need a power cord. I could be wrong on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Um, many PCs already have FireWire anyway, so I fail to see your point. FireWire 800, no, but then again, I have clearly argued against FW800 in this thread anyway.
Um, my point was FW800. Not FW400. I've never seen a digital camera that doesn't have FW400. I was talking that I've never seen a camera with FW800
 
Dr_LHA
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2006-04-19, 13:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
As someone that's going to film school, I don't know of any equipment that uses FW800. I could be totally wrong, but I think Apple is the only one who adopted FW800. So what camera manufacturing company would have reasoning to include it if more than 80% (my total guesstimate) use P.C.s? So not including FW800 does not exclude video professionals to my knowledge. The only thing it would effect is those FW800 External HDs, which support FW400 anyway. I don't think not including FW800 will render any equipment useless.
If this is true, and I don't dispute it, then why was there such a outcry when Apple left FW800 out of the 15" MBP? I specifically remember people moaning about how they "won't get upgrading" as they use FW800 RAID boxes.

I guess the moaners always make a small problem seem like a big one.
 
chucker
 
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2006-04-19, 13:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
There are so many people clamoring for a MacBook which hasn't been updated in over a year I think?
Well, not quite. The iBooks were last updated end of July.
 
Dr_LHA
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2006-04-19, 13:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
On a more interesting note (to me), was the mention on MacRumors of



Why? Why release a second incarnation of the MacBook Pro when the ONLY things left to release is a MacBook and a PowerMac/Mac Pro/Intel whichimagiger desktop? The desktop is obviously going to be a few months. But the chips are for the MacBook are ready NOW. Look at the Mac mini. It's not like Apple has no experience in putting those chips in a small area (the iMac, MacBook Pro, and Mac mini are all pretty compact). So they don't really have to tackle a whole-new issue. There are so many people clamoring for a MacBook which hasn't been updated in over a year I think? The PowerBooks were updated last fall.
Not quite a year yet, iBooks were updated last July. I remember because I bought one then!
 
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2006-04-19, 13:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
I think you miss understood my point. I was saying that eternal hard drives that were POWERED via firewire. Not firewire supported.
Ah yes, my apologies.

Quote:
I don't know of Firewire HDs that need to use Firewire for it's power supply along with data transfer.
Especially 2.5-inch ones almost always support this.

Quote:
It wouldn't make sense because most people (P.C.s) would use USB 2.0, which does not supply power.
Er, yes, it does. How do you think your USB mouse would work without power supply?

It just doesn't provide nearly as much power as FireWire does.

Quote:
Um, my point was FW800. Not FW400. I've never seen a digital camera that doesn't have FW400. I was talking that I've never seen a camera with FW800
Which is why I strongly argue against the need for FW800.
 
tacvbo83
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2006-04-19, 14:29

I'd say 17" widescreen is to big. 15.4" was just right.
 
Robo
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2006-04-19, 15:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacvbo83
I'd say 17" widescreen is to big. 15.4" was just right.
Well, to some people, 17" is just right. To some people, 13" is just right.

It's not like they're getting rid of the 15" MBP.

...but I am concerned that the MacBook might miss the education buying season. Where is it, Apple?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 15:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
...but I am concerned that the MacBook might miss the education buying season. Where is it, Apple?

I agree completely.
 
Mugge
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2006-04-19, 17:28

Steve is probably flogging some poor, less than perfect, bastard as we speak.



Oh. And I'm one of those elusive persons who own and operate a FW400 powered external harddrive. Yeah, I know I'm kinda a weirdo.

 
Dave Hagan
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2006-04-19, 17:30

UPDATE: Think Secret has concured about the MacBook at NAB.
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 17:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hagan
UPDATE: Think Secret has concured about the MacBook at NAB.
I would correct yourself because I got all excited. MacBook Pro
 
intlplby
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2006-04-19, 18:11

the biggest downside to eSATA over FW800 is that you cannot daisychain devices......

with the eSATA expresscards, the most number of drives i can add to my MBP is 2 with a bulky card sticking out.... not exactly an elegant solution.

with FW800 you can daisychain more than one FW800 device at a comparatively high bandwidth......

right now i have a bunch of FW800 devices which i invested money in which are going to waste because there is no FW800 support....
 
infinitespecter
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2006-04-19, 19:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
Well, to some people, 17" is just right. To some people, 13" is just right.

It's not like they're getting rid of the 15" MBP.

...but I am concerned that the MacBook might miss the education buying season. Where is it, Apple?

According to the conference call today, Apple considers the buying season to be July-September. The MacBook will probably be released sometime next month.
 
admactanium
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2006-04-19, 20:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by nato64
I think you miss understood my point. I was saying that eternal hard drives that were POWERED via firewire. Not firewire supported. I don't know of Firewire HDs that need to use Firewire for it's power supply along with data transfer. It wouldn't make sense because most people (P.C.s) would use USB 2.0, which does not supply power. Every external HD I've seen need a power cord. I could be wrong on this.800
i've had around 4 or 5 external firewire drives that are powered from the firewire cable. for laptop drive cases this is the norm and it's nice to not need a power cable for it. just plug it into the computer and then start copying. it's extremely common. almost any small portable firewire drive is bus-powered.
 
nato64
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2006-04-19, 20:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium
i've had around 4 or 5 external firewire drives that are powered from the firewire cable. for laptop drive cases this is the norm and it's nice to not need a power cable for it. just plug it into the computer and then start copying. it's extremely common. almost any small portable firewire drive is bus-powered.

thank you for clarifying that. i am happily proven wrong because those do sound like cool devices.
 
Corey
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2006-04-19, 21:35

Firewire 800 shouldn't be hard to do. Is the 800 vs 400 chipset that much more expensive?

Last edited by Corey : 2006-04-19 at 21:46.
 
RobM
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2006-04-19, 21:53

There are card bus adapters being developed now for fw 800. Shouldn't be long before they are released.

Then everyone can sleep easy.
 
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