[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM I miss some of that as well, maybe it's why I haven't been interested in the new trek. I think we lost that when TV shows started focusing on long story arcs, rather than one off stories for the most part. That way of doing shows had positives and negatives, it created the chance for the types of stories you talked about, but leads to a lack of continuity. I think we can all agree on how many times TNG had conflicting explanations for things in one season alone. Like Data not being about to use contractions, even though he does.

Yes.

Well, DS9 was a bit of a hybrid in that sense. It was still mostly episodic, but it had a lot of long story arcs, most prominently the Dominion War, and the entire series was a long crescendo towards the end. It's extremely hard to pull that off at all, because you're gonna convince few producers to give you the budget for a seven-season arc.

On top of that, indeed, the media landscape has shifted. I think this is mostly for the better. VOY showed us some of the worst of the monster-of-the-week episodic approach: it just doesn't make sense for a ship to be stranded way off in the distance, on a decades-long journey to come home, and to face threats and enemies, yet to be squeaky clean (almost every time) the very next episode. It's absurd, and it cheapened the show.

Now, I'm not against serialized stories. But when you do a season-long arc, whether it's ENT S3, or any season of DIS and PIC, that arc better be really, really good. And I'm just not convinced Trek is the right kind of franchise for that. I enjoy lots of serialized shows! Just… none of the Trek ones are among them.

Originally Posted by drewprops Tonight someone told me that Patrick Stewart told the old cast that they would not be a part of Picard, when it first got greenlit. I have not had time to check that out yet. It HAS been my sense that Stewart never really understood what made Trek work, if he's had much control as a producer.

I believe Stewart only agreed to do PIC if it was a new show with different people (other than himself), yeah. I also think he got 1) bored of his role in TNG and 2) interested in the new angle on the role that ST8 had. So in ST9 and 10, they amped up the action-hero aspects. They had him drive in a dune buggy because Patrick Stewart likes dune buggies, not because it makes any sense at all story-wise.

I do think much about PIC S1, to its credit, is a logical continuation of this Picard character we saw in the movies. And there were many years in between, so I don't think it breaks with that. I just don't think it's overall a very compelling show — just in terms of drama, in general — and I don't think it's very Trek-like either. It's just set in the same universe as Trek.

[PB PM]

That is the one downside to using old characters, sometimes the actors start dictating how the stories go, which in my mind, holds back the writers and forces unrealistic character changes. Seeing Picard going from the cool, calm diplomat in TNG to a crazy emotionally driven nut in the movies and newer shows was jarring. I’m sure Stewart was bored, but it wasn’t a good change, IMO. It’s the borgs fault though.

As for DS9 vs Voyager, it was an interesting time for TV shows, episodic was still the norm, but the transition was happening. Both shows also came when we were moving from models shot on camera to CGI, which was cool, but I think it lead to the directors/writers doing some things just because they could. Both had some great episodes, and dreadful ones, but DS9 handled the story arc far better. My biggest gripe with Voyager was that one week they be dragging out some moral issue to the point of being silly, then in the next episode they’d ignore the same issue without even a second thought. The writers just didn’t work together on that stuff it seems, which damaged the characters and the story arc.

[Brad]

And it's over! Despite the rough ride, Picard ended well enough. It wasn't great. It wasn't terrible. I don't love it. I don't hate it.

I'm happy to see the creative staff allowed the show to stop and breathe at the very end of its final episode, to savor these last few moments, knowing full well that this is likely the very last time we'll see this crew on screen together. Like much of the rest of this season, the writing in the finale pulls very hard on your nostalgia, dropping references and homages and remakes in practically every scene. Yet, I'll admit that there were a couple moments at the end when I, even with my cold black NuTrek-hating heart, was not completely immune to the member berries, and felt a little choked up as it hit me that everything was finally actually coming to end for the bridge crew of the Enterprise D. I think I had a similar feeling to a lesser degree at the end of Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country all those years ago, but I wasn't as attached to the Kirk era then, not nearly as much as I've felt at home with the TNG crew for the last 35 years. The TNG crew were my parasocial family when I was a growing adolescent, when my actual family was broken and neglectful. Their enlightened perspective on social issues and their diplomatic and scientific approach to problem solving absolutely shaped me into the adult I would become.

I have a long list of things I would have changed about Picard and its finale, of course, but it's a satisfactory ending that actually feels like an ending. TNG's ending with All Good Things was great, but DS9's ending with What You Leave Behind was way better. Picard's finale tries to tie loose ends and send everyone on their way much more like DS9's ending than TNG's, and I appreciate that. TNG's finale was a much better episode, not even in the same league as anything shown in Picard, but Picard's finale gave an actual denouement for the crew. I think I'd rank the Trek series finales in order of best to worst:

1. DS9
2. TNG and Picard in a close tie for second
3. Voyager
4. Enterprise (LOL)
5. TOS (if you can even call its last episode a finale)

This spoiler-free review comes hot on the heels of my first viewing of the finale, of course, while my brain is still flooded with nostalgia endorphins. Maybe I'll wake up sober tomorrow with a different opinion.

Now, I would love to see someone edit all of Picard seasons 1, 2, and 3 down into one extra long movie, trimming most of the season 1 and 2 nonsense, and trimming some of the useless mystery boxes and stretched out cliffhanger pacing from season 3. In the right hands, this could make for a great final movie to capstone the TNG franchise.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Brad Now, I would love to see someone edit all of Picard seasons 1, 2, and 3...

You must be mistaken. There is only one season of ST: Picard. It just ended.

[drewprops]

I absolutely enjoyed the final episode of Picard S3, and the closures afforded to all the characters. I would watch the last ten minutes of that episode again. The first two seasons can go jump in a lake.

If there is ANYTHING studios should have learned over the past few years is: fan service is NECESSARY and BENEFICIAL and does not preclude creativity. It is NOT necessary to alter established storylines or character designs simply to display your creativity. Try WRITING instead.


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[chucker]

Originally Posted by Brad Their enlightened perspective on social issues and their diplomatic and scientific approach to problem solving absolutely shaped me into the adult I would become.

Same.

Trek, to me, is "come for the space ships, but stay for the philosophy".

(I could whine about how NuTrek often IMHO misses the mark on the philosophy part, of course. OTOH, it does well on diversity, so that's something.)

[drewprops]

I am forever explaining how much Star Trek influenced my approach to society expectations for the future of our planet. To steal a phrase, I consider it to be "the way".

Originally Posted by chucker (I could whine about how NuTrek often IMHO misses the mark on the philosophy part, of course. OTOH, it does well on diversity, so that's something.)

NuTrek does sometimes seem to lose its way in teaching us a lesson, but society HAS moved a bit further down the line from where it was since the series began, but not so much that it's time to end Vacation Bible School; we still need the lessons.

My primary complaint about Discovery was that it often preached, instead of demonstrating.


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