[xionja]

So everybody got back to my high school this year, and their is a new principle, with all new rules. As far as high school security our school was average, guys on carts riding the perimeters, complicated hall pass systems, ect ect. Not everything was strictly enforced.

The new principle is famous for having turned around a few inner cities schools in Baltimore, and it seems like he is treating our school similarly. The issue is though is that Ithaca High, is a generally average, white, middle class school. It is actually academicly one of the best in the country, and though their were some "race tensions" last year it a really well working school, really diverse.

So coming back to school this year, it is like all of our privilages have been taken away.

New Rules:

Upperclassmen can no longer leave school campus during free periods, to like get lunch or something.

It takes 10 weeks to get approved to get an 'extension' (permission to be off campus 1st or 8th period) and some people will never be approved because of grades, history of attendance, or having gotten in trouble before.

We are not allowed to eat outside anymore in the courtyard

Free periods must be spent in the library, cafeteria or activities. You must have a pass to be in the hallways at anytime, even to go from the library to the cafeteria.

New dress code, really strict. No more tank tops, no tight pants, or mini skirts. No midriff showing at all, or boxers, underwear ect. . . The crotch in guys pants has the be higher that the minimum for miniskirts, however far hands reach.

No eating within classrooms, even if the student does not have a lunch period.

No 'dirty dancing' at dances, and anyone who shows up under the influence gets in trouble.

All privaleges can be revoked at anytime for anything. All penalties are tougher. Out of school suspension can be given to students who go against the dress code more than 3 times. The deffinitions of insubordinate have been made much more broad.


The new principle is a real dick, he personally walks the hallways and gets kids in trouble. He gave a kid a referal for walking into his office and not taking his hat off. Even teachers do not like him very much.


So the question is, will a generally complacent and happy community just sorta bend to the requests of an asshole, or will their be dissagreement, and a change of the rules? A revolution? I see a potential for the latter, especially if the new dresscodes are enforced. (Imagine an announcement on the PA system in the middle of class instructing teachers to send all kids in violation of the dresscode down to the office)

Many of the kids (especially girls) in violation of the dresscode are ones who would normally bend to whatever rules their are, but I have already heard chatter among them that they don't give a fuck, and they're gonna keep wearing whatever they want.

I see it essentially as a little society, government experiment, and am quite intrigued. I used to go to a mini little freak hippy school. This is my second year (kinda, second semester really) at the big school. I guess I still see it from an observers view.


Another question, do you think I could get away with distributing, skimpy tank tops for the girls, and boxers for the boys that would read "I am Mr. Wilsons School Lunch" (mista wilson is the new pricep)

The shirts would be normal, but the with the words 'School Lunch' at the bottom, and all the words on the boxers would be at the top. You get the idea. There would also be a graffic of a tray and milk carton. So no one would get the wrong idea so crude. . .

[psmith2.0]

I guess you can classify me as an old fart, but I don't see much of a problem with most of those "oppressive rules" (no dry humping at dances, underwear not showing, no dressing like Jenna Jameson, no wandering off campus, no showing up to dances wasted, etc.).

It's probably less them wanting to be little Hitlers than to just keep some order and decorum going? It is a school, after all.

I'm not being a jerk (because I was certainly in high school once), but imagine, if you will, what the place would be like if all those things you listed weren't in place.



It would probably be an uncontrollable zoo, and non-stop fuckfest/liquor bonanza, with all the stuff that accompanies it (accidents, pregnancy, STD, fights, etc.).

I tend to look at this from the school's perspective. You've got the evenings and weekends to do whatever the hell you want, but, while in school, there needs to be some order and rules, otherwise it's a madhouse, with people constantly pushing things as far as possible.

It's school. Open a book and behave, and be a little wild-ass on your own time.

[LoCash]

Such an academically elite school should enforce some more rules in their English classes. Like proper usage of their/there/they're and the principal should remind his students how to spell his title properly. I'll stop being an asshole now

When I was in high school I went to a college prep school. We never had any rules really. It was up to a teacher to allow you to eat or drink in the classroom, students that had signed a waiver were allowed to leave campus at will, I'd never heard of hall passes outside of movies, no dress code, etceteras.

I appreciate discipline and encourage it to be taught to kids, but I don't think the rules being enforced are effective means of doing so. When you get to college there are no rules like that, so it's like why even fucking bother. But whatever, it happens.

[Barto]

I've been to schools with strict rules.

The first was a pretty standard Protestant school: the rules were there but not enforced, and the students didn't respect them
The second was a pretty 'traditionalist' Lutheran school: the rules were there, enforced and respected.

In both cases you have congruity: in practice, the rules met the expectations of the student population.

However, I went to a public high school with pretty strict rules BUT being a public high school, the student population didn't respect them - they didn't match the expectations of public school rules. It was too hard to enforce them because everyone violated them. Every few months there was a 'crackdown', but they never changed anything. It was just silly - the teachers didn't have the energy to constantly fight who they were supposed to be teaching and even if they did, why should they?

I'm guessing that is how your school will be.

[windowsblowsass]

this doesnt seem very strict at all my scholl has ome of the same rules and they dont normally announce over pa system to the office for dress code just if a teacher thinks its too short they have the chick put her hands down too short they get sent to the office. honestley your lucky at least you have free periods

[Barto]

Oh yeah, don't listen to pscates, he really is an old fart.

Paul, you have awesome Photoshop and Chris-bashing skillz, but you really are the "cranky old dude".

Barto

[xionja]

The main issue i have, I think I may have forgotton to mention is that offenses like these and this program Mosaic 2000 follow kids through college and even jobs. So if somebody gets in trouble for having an electric device in school, let say they get in trouble a few times, its permently in their record.

As previously mentioned by a few, Teachers can individually define their classroom rules. While I like teachers who are relaxed and don't mind eating, and talking in their room, I'm fine with teachers who run traditional classrooms, because they command the respect. If I feel honored to be in a class, and that class is asking me to behave, I will.

pscates, I agree with these rules too, these are guidelines that have pretty much been followed by students for years without enfocement. Kids are getting marked for truancy while waiting for the school to give them approriate baggy clothing.


and as for english use. . .I might not possess great skills, but my history teacher keeps saying "aint nobody eating no food in no classroom" over and over again. I counted 8 separated times. He gets all prepared for it, and then delivers his line. I called him on it today, and asked him to encourage propper english use within his classroom, brat that I am. He also likes to use the word 'Junkie' so I created the new classroom salute, got alot of kids to smack their forearms everytime he used the word. he's a dickless guy, fat, covered in sweat, has no neck, no voice, and no sense of humor. okay, maybe the school does need strict rules.. . .

[staph]

It sounds like your principal is asking for trouble. Frankly, I don't see the point of most of the outlined changes (although getting some kind of parental consent for letting you off campus is probably a good idea).

Mind you, the rules at my (private single-sex CofE grammar school) were probably on par with, or a little stricter than what you've mentioned. The teachers couldn't have cared less if we got on to the Grammar chicks at socials (so long as we were'nt wasted), but other than that: eating in classrooms was out, the uniform had to be reasonably tidy (shoes polished, knee-high socks up in summer, shirt tucked in, w/ blazer at Assembly and chapel etc.), leaving campus without explicit permission from the school Sergeant and a signed leave-slip was a suspensable offence, free periods had be be spent on campus, unless they were the last 1 or 2 periods, with permission from Serg (although only year 12s had frees anyway, and we all headed off to the year 12 common room to play loud music, watch TV, play pool and cards). Not to mention the rules on haircuts (ffs — no hair longer than shoulder length! grr! no mohawks! no punk-coloured hair!). Teachers were conventionally to be addressed as "Sir" and "Ma'am". After-school sport was compulsory. Oh… and they banned British Bulldogs on several occasions after some serious injuries. Killjoys. What's a few spinal injuries to a growing young man?

[LoCash]

Jeez, xionja can be pretty harsh when criticizing others. And I'm a fan of the junkie salute. Ain't nuttin' wrong wit dat.

:: grabs a spoon and torch ::

*smack*, *smack*, *smack*

[staph]

Originally Posted by Barto Oh yeah, don't listen to pscates, he really is an old fart. Paul, you have awesome Photoshop and Chris-bashing skillz, but you really are the "cranky old dude". Barto

Hear hear!

The bit about dry-f**king was particularly… bitter?

[Neø]

i wish they enforced the same rules at my high school...i mean the way the kids dress there is disgusting... they all dress so slut-like and and behave like that too

-Neø

[Ryan]

At my school, we get rules like that all the time. Give it a week, and no one will care. Basically it comes down to how much the teachers/security/whatever like the rules. If they(the law enforcement, effectively), don't think the rules are rules worth having, they often won't enforce them.

Example from my school: No student is allowed outside the lunch area at lunch. No excuses.

We have our library, computer lab, and teachers outside this area. Often students need these resources during lunch. Our principal is very lazy, and often isn't even at the school for lunch, so that leaves the teachers. When a student is caught in an out-of-bounds area, the teacher will often just ask why they are back there. And them let them go. AFAIK, nothing has ever resulted from this.

BTW, we just got a new principal too, as well as cuts on the security staff. We're averaging four fights a week so far.

They're trying to close the campus for all next year, but once again, the teachers don't like the idea. The school simply can't hold that many people all eating lunch at the same time.

[staph]

Originally Posted by Neø i wish they enforced the same rules at my high school...i mean the way the kids dress there is disgusting... they all dress so slut-like and and behave like that too -Neø

You realise that humans are naked in a state of nature, and that sexual mores are socially constructed, right?

I'm inclined to the view that what people want to do with their own bodies is entirely their own business. So long as they're not disruptive in class, who really cares? I can imagine catapulting paperclips at a teacher as being disruptive, but minis and midriff tops? Please.

Of course, children who don't concentrate in class need and deserve punishment — don't get me wrong.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Barto Oh yeah, don't listen to pscates, he really is an old fart. Paul, you have awesome Photoshop and Chris-bashing skillz, but you really are the "cranky old dude". Barto

1. I use Illustrator. Get it right.

2. Chris kinda bashes himself, I just help guide the hammer at times. He does most of the work.

3. Nah, not cranky at all. I was a tad of a hellion horndog in my high school years (particularly latter junior year and my entire senior year), so I'd be as bummed as x is. But I also know how my mind and body were wired then (along with everyone else), and if guidelines and parameters weren't in place, it would've been quite an out-of-control disaster, all those kids, all those hormones, all those growing bodies and curiosity, all that willingness to ingest whatever and stare for 20 minutes straight at the slightest hint of cleavage, etc.

And this was the 80's! No thongs, no baby shirts, no low-rise jeans, etc. Our heads would've exploded (don't even think it) if we'd seen what passes for casual high school wear these days!



Time and place for everything. And school isn't necessarily it, that's all. That's why they invented the weekend and rock quarries.

[Zodiac]

Originally Posted by xionja So everybody got back to my high school this year, and their is a new principle, with all new rules. As far as high school security our school was average, guys on carts riding the perimeters, complicated hall pass systems, ect ect. Not everything was strictly enforced. The new principle is famous for having turned around a few inner cities schools in Baltimore, and it seems like he is treating our school similarly. The issue is though is that Ithaca High, is a generally average, white, middle class school. It is actually academicly one of the best in the country, and though their were some "race tensions" last year it a really well working school, really diverse. So coming back to school this year, it is like all of our privilages have been taken away. New Rules: Upperclassmen can no longer leave school campus during free periods, to like get lunch or something. It takes 10 weeks to get approved to get an 'extension' (permission to be off campus 1st or 8th period) and some people will never be approved because of grades, history of attendance, or having gotten in trouble before. We are not allowed to eat outside anymore in the courtyard Free periods must be spent in the library, cafeteria or activities. You must have a pass to be in the hallways at anytime, even to go from the library to the cafeteria. New dress code, really strict. No more tank tops, no tight pants, or mini skirts. No midriff showing at all, or boxers, underwear ect. . . The crotch in guys pants has the be higher that the minimum for miniskirts, however far hands reach. No eating within classrooms, even if the student does not have a lunch period. No 'dirty dancing' at dances, and anyone who shows up under the influence gets in trouble. All privaleges can be revoked at anytime for anything. All penalties are tougher. Out of school suspension can be given to students who go against the dress code more than 3 times. The deffinitions of insubordinate have been made much more broad. The new principle is a real dick, he personally walks the hallways and gets kids in trouble. He gave a kid a referal for walking into his office and not taking his hat off. Even teachers do not like him very much. So the question is, will a generally complacent and happy community just sorta bend to the requests of an asshole, or will their be dissagreement, and a change of the rules? A revolution? I see a potential for the latter, especially if the new dresscodes are enforced. (Imagine an announcement on the PA system in the middle of class instructing teachers to send all kids in violation of the dresscode down to the office) Many of the kids (especially girls) in violation of the dresscode are ones who would normally bend to whatever rules their are, but I have already heard chatter among them that they don't give a fuck, and they're gonna keep wearing whatever they want. I see it essentially as a little society, government experiment, and am quite intrigued. I used to go to a mini little freak hippy school. This is my second year (kinda, second semester really) at the big school. I guess I still see it from an observers view. Another question, do you think I could get away with distributing, skimpy tank tops for the girls, and boxers for the boys that would read "I am Mr. Wilsons School Lunch" (mista wilson is the new pricep) The shirts would be normal, but the with the words 'School Lunch' at the bottom, and all the words on the boxers would be at the top. You get the idea. There would also be a graffic of a tray and milk carton. So no one would get the wrong idea so crude. . .

Dude, those rules bite the big one don't they?

[psmith2.0]

Dudette, you mean.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Neø i wish they enforced the same rules at my high school...i mean the way the kids dress there is disgusting... they all dress so slut-like and and behave like that too

Now, now, it's not nice to talk like that about your sister...

[staph]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 And this was the 80's! No thongs, no baby shirts, no low-rise jeans, etc. Our heads would've exploded (don't even think it) if we'd seen what passes for casual high school wear these days!

Of course, there weren't any examples of bizarre or risque fashions in the late 70s/80s at all.

If I had some time to dig through Video Hits a bit more, I'm sure I could find many many more examples.

Now if only I could look as cute as Peter Murphy.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by staph You realise that humans are naked in a state of nature, and that sexual mores are socially constructed, right? I'm inclined to the view that what people want to do with their own bodies is entirely their own business. So long as they're not disruptive in class, who really cares? I can imagine catapulting paperclips at a teacher as being disruptive, but minis and midriff tops? Please. Of course, children who don't concentrate in class need and deserve punishment — don't get me wrong.

How about if the mini is so short when the girl bends over to pick up the pencil she dropped her ass shows. I have no problems with tang tops, tight pants, or mid-driffs. But, minis need to die.

[windowsblowsass]

wtf quag u are sayinfg seeing a girls ass is bad damn ur 14 u should be thinking the opposite of that :LOL: :LOL:

[Barto]

What the crap is wrong with you Quag? Are you gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

If you are, why should you care?

If you aren't... WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!?

Ass > Study (except for ugly person ass of course)

[InactionMan]

What the hell? Those are the worst rules ever! You need a Revolution immediately. My High School had zero rules and it was considered, academically, to be one of the best in Toronto. The teachers hung out with the students between class and smoked with them. You could leave your class whenever you felt like it. No dress codes, no fucking hall passes. Christ, treat the kids like adults, they'll act like adults. Treat them like prisoners and they'll stick a shiv in you the first chance they get.

Vive Le Revolucion!

[Barto]

The revolt begins. Ithaca High becomes Ithaca Hi, then to avoid confusion Ithaca Nova. xionja et al live happily ever after.

[InactionMan]

Long Live Ithaca Nova!

[FFL]

Originally Posted by Undertaker How about if the mini is so short when the girl bends over to pick up the pencil she dropped her ass shows.

This seriously brings to mind one of my favorite Radiators songs (they played it on Saturday night) called #2 Pencil (yes, you can download the song, or an entire show, from that link).

EDIT: this is a direct download link for that song only (warning - 74 MB - broadband only!)

[Wrao]

I'm a fan of the old school myself. But the new school has it's flavor that's for sure.

[staph]

Originally Posted by Undertaker But, minis need to die.

But that's half my clubwear YOU BASTARD!!!



I'm not sure why you're so disturbed/intimidated by bottoms. All you need is a nice big folder or something if you get too overheated.

[Brad]

I'm with pscates. None of those rules seem out of line at all.

Upperclassmen can no longer leave school campus during free periods, to like get lunch or something.

So? High schoolers shouldn't be leaving during the day unless they have a legitimate part time job. I don't pay taxes for kids to drive off during the day and kill someone because they are inexperienced drivers and are in a rush to get back on time. Years ago my high school let kids leave school for lunch. That ended pretty quickly when five of them died. Good riddance to a privilege that never made any sense to begin with.

It takes 10 weeks to get approved to get an 'extension' (permission to be off campus 1st or 8th period)

Again, unless you have a job or are sick or have some official function, why should you be late or leaving early?

We are not allowed to eat outside anymore in the courtyard

Okay, I could see you complaining about this if the kids have always put away their trash and never been loud and disruptive out there.

Free periods must be spent in the library, cafeteria or activities. You must have a pass to be in the hallways at anytime, even to go from the library to the cafeteria.

Again, what's wrong with this? Isn't this how most schools have been since the beginning of time?

New dress code, really strict. No more tank tops, no tight pants, or mini skirts. No midriff showing at all, or boxers, underwear ect. . . The crotch in guys pants has the be higher that the minimum for miniskirts, however far hands reach.

As it should be. Kids today do flaunt way too much. I'm just 22 and I already think it's a disgrace how much kids get away with today. School isn't a place to flaunt/sell your body for sex; it's an institution for learning. It should be treated with the respect as such.

No eating within classrooms, even if the student does not have a lunch period.

Isn't this how most schools have been since the beginning of time? Even in college most professors won't let you eat in their class. It's messy and it's disruptive. Oh, it's all fun and games until Susie spills her Pepsi all over Jimmy's semester-long term paper or Tommy blows up his chemistry table when he drips mayonnaise on the bunsen burner.

No 'dirty dancing' at dances, and anyone who shows up under the influence gets in trouble.

Well, the first half does seem a bit silly, but the second half enforces a violation of the law. If you're drinking underage, you'd better be carted away from any public functions.

All privaleges can be revoked at anytime for anything. All penalties are tougher. Out of school suspension can be given to students who go against the dress code more than 3 times. The deffinitions of insubordinate have been made much more broad.

Obviously, judging from your thorough post, they've done a good job making the rules well known. So, no one can claim ignorance for breaking them more than once, right?

I see it essentially as a little society, government experiment, and am quite intrigued.

Yes, high school is a society socially among the students. As far as the administration goes, it should for all intents and purposes be considered a dictatorship. Students don't and shouldn't have any say in how the rules are made; they don't know any better. Public schools operate on the money given by thousands of taxpayers. They are your bosses. Kids under 18 very rarely if ever fall under that category.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by xionja The main issue i have, I think I may have forgotton to mention is that offenses like these and this program Mosaic 2000 follow kids through college and even jobs. So if somebody gets in trouble for having an electric device in school, let say they get in trouble a few times, its permently in their record.

Welcome to the real world! Screw up here and no one will ever let you live it down!

I assume by "electric device" you mean cell phones and pagers, right? Again, what do kids need these for in class? Even in college, you'll get booted out of the room if your cell phone interrupts the professor. For that matter, I've seen some teachers grab the cell phone and start talking to the person on the other line to beat the student in the head with the old Clue Stick™.

It's a matter of respect and maintaining a structured environment. It's not that the rules are getting any harsher; it's that the students are finding new ways to cause distractions.

Seriously. High school is when kids need to grow up and start acting like little adults. That means learning to conform to the rules of society. A lot of kids need a major kick in the pants to motivate them and that's why these punishments seem so severe. In the real world, if you show up to most jobs in a skimpy spaghetti-strap showing your midriff or you just wander away from the office for no good reason or you interrupt a meeting to talk to Billy or Mary on the cell phone, you'll risk losing your job and thereby endanger your own and your family's well being.

[alcimedes]

dunno, i'm of the school "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

if the kids are performing well, and getting the education they're supposed to, what's the point of changing things? I guess you could say that you'll expect things to get better, but i'd be surprised if that were the case.

nothing like a little rightous indignation in high school to make the kids complete dicks.