[bassplayinMacFiend]

I wish Apple came out with boot camp in February. I have quite some time before I can rationalize a new computer purchase.

[beardedmacuser]

If the mini had a graphics chip that'd run 3D Windows games at least acceptably, then I'd order one right now! Oh well, this lack of a gaming mini gives me an excuse NOT to buy a new Mac...

[mooty]

Has anyone got this working yet? Would love to hear from anyone!!

[Partial]

don't be nubs, 1/50 is going to do this legally and report in that they are doing it. Companies will still produce professional software for macs.

[709]

"Enter the alt reality."



Very good.

I also like the Windows-esque HD icon.

[Mac+]

What about companies, such as Ableton, that develop for both Windows and Mac (Live)? Where is their incentive to optmise code and dual processor support now if IntelMacs boot into Windows?

Will they eventually only offer a Windows version? (rhetorical - I know ... who knows the real answer at this stage?)

[mooty]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 don't be nubs, 1/50 is going to do this legally and report in that they are doing it. Companies will still produce professional software for macs.

Hmmm great insight! Can you tell us why you think that people like Adobe will continue to port over the legacy code to intel, when they have a perfectly good version of Photoshop running on Windows?

I know its not ideal to switch to Windows if you are a mac user, but seriously, think about it from a business perspective! If I was Adobe, I would feel a bit like I had been kicked in the teeth...

If I was weighing up the costs for R&D for the intel switch Vs keeping just a Windows version of Photoshop for example, I am pretty sure what they would go for, unless Adobe's mac users far far outway windows users?!??!

[bassplayinMacFiend]

The last I heard, OS X Photoshop sales make up around 25-30% of revenues.

[alcimedes]

I honestly don't think this will do much to Mac publishers outside of the games arena. If I made Mac games this would make me feel sick, but Mac games have a unique problem.

Most are released months after the PC versions are, and most run like ass in OSX. Top that off with the fact that when people are gaming, they're usually not working on other apps, and rebooting to run them doesn't sound so bad anymore.

For people who want to work in OSX, rebooting all the time to run an app. here and there won't be that enticing.

[tannenhauser]

i really hope adobe continues to make apps for osx...

the window versions of cs are different from the mac ones. the interface is different, shortcuts are different, menus are different, windows does not have hidden characters, typefaces are different, colors/gamma are different. i dont know how i and many would function.

[murbot]

This is great! I have to replace the computer in the office at work, and it was going to be a PC because of the accounting software we run. I've been dreading the purchase, and trying to decide between buying another goddamned PC or going Mac and trying to teach the old people here how to use a new program. I'm still giving refresher courses in copying and pasting here, so that didn't look too appealing.

I would love to be able to buy an iMac to stick in here! This makes my frickin' day. WOO HOO

[BFG]

I can't believe this would really stop devs from providing their apps for OSX... Not being funny but that would be apple blowing their own brains out. I just don't think it will happen, everyone i know use OSX because it is better than Windows - you offer them a PC with Photoshop CS or a Mac with Photoshop CS and they'll all go and queue up by the Mac.

[mooty]

Yeah but companies dont care about that, they care about the $$$

[psmith2.0]

In a multi-user/multi-needs household, I could see this being a real nice thing to have.

One sleek, attractive machine that runs both operating systems.

Like murbot's situation: if you're tied to some Windows-only software but you really don't want to spend money on a Dell or whatever...now you don't have to.

"But honey, we have to run that school software and it's Windows-only!"

"So why are you buying a new quad G5 tower and 30" Cinema Display, numbnut?"

"Well, I want to run it good and see lots of it, sweetie! It's for the children, honey...come on now!"



Oh the crap that's gonna be thought up and flung out there to justify new Mac purchases...

[tannenhauser]

Originally Posted by mooty Yeah but companies dont care about that, they care about the $$$

yea but a lot of creative companies will lose a lot of money because they will have to buy adobe pc software, buy whole new pc typeface libraries, lose time training people how to use windows and train people how to use pc versions of cs.

[dviant]

I understand the convenience of dual-booting Macs for consumers. But I'm not convinced of the direct benefit to Apple. So now Windows can run on *any* PC and Mac OS can still only run on Macs. Who benefits here? If they are counting on Boot Camp to woo potential switchers they are essentially gambling with their developers as the stakes. How does this attract new OS X developers? How does it retain current ones? One direct benefit I *can* see is the possibility of increased market share, but since when does Apple want to be another Dell or HP? They are more than a mere PC manufacturer and have more things to consider than just hardware sales.

The line is so blurry now for developers I find it hard to see how this move does anything but erode the incentive to develop OS X apps. "Mac users" (this effectively means something different now) can now run Windows-only software at native speeds with a small amount of effort. Keep in mind that anyone needing Windows already has a copy, so there's really no extra cost here. The only saving point I can envision is that the average Joe wouldn't even consider dual-boot. Even though Apple has made it simple, it's probably too technical for normal folk. Still, this an awfully flimsy defense to risk your company on.

Perhaps this was just inevitable, with the move to x86, and a stop-gap measure as someone said. The Windows-on-Mac hacks are picking up speed, and at some point Microsoft would likely throw it's hat into the arena and provide support of their own. Maybe this is the best thing Apple could to try and keep control to itself. In any event it's now being forced into a position where they need to step up.

The only way this makes this makes sense to me as a planned move is that Apple is gearing up to take on Microsoft head-on, running side by side, confident that OS X will blow it away. The move from PPC to x86 and now being able to run Windows on the same hardware has eliminated all barriers of meaningful comparison. It is no longer Apples to Oranges, it is Apples to Apples. I think it's a fight they could win, but my fear is that Apple will continue to be complacent in marketing OS X, simply sitting on it's collective hands waiting for consumers to "get it" while it's developer base suffers a war of attrition.

[mooty]

Originally Posted by tannenhauser yea but a lot of creative companies will lose a lot of money because they will have to buy adobe pc software, buy whole new pc typeface libraries, lose time training people how to use windows and train people how to use pc versions of cs.

All valid points, but we've seen stranger things happen!!

[ironlung]

I am sure apple were reassured by developers about their commitment for OS X. Thinking about the keynote, and microsoft's guarantee to support development for at least 5 years.. seems to make a little more sense with this announcement.

Anyway, I am sure itll work but anyone read anything about being able to install windows on an external drive? I do not want to make my intel imac hard drive "filthy" with a windows installation!

[scratt]

Originally Posted by BFG Other than games and the odd rare app, if you can allready do it just as well or better on OSX why on earth would you want to boot windows to do it instead? nuts.

It's not about *you* making the choice. It's about the choice being forced on you.

As I have already said though.. Apps will be ported almost without exception, I am sure. It's the games we have to worry about.

[709]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not in the least bit worried about this. I buy a Mac because I prefer OS X to Windows. If I *must* run a Windows app for business or whatnot, this news is grand. Otherwise I'd be running a PC exclusively. I seriously can't see more than a handful of developers giving up on the Mac...and there's no way in hell Adobe or the like is going to do that. Creative pros would freak.

[alcimedes]

I think this is a move that will increase Apple's sales tremendously.

If their marketshare goes from 5% to 10%, I promise you everyone will continue to port and write software for Mac OS. (big budget games being the exception)

The nice part about all this is at the end of the day, people who *couldn't* buy a Mac before because of one or two required Windows-only apps. can now purchase without any worries. I think this will drive total sales up quite a bit, which at the end of the day is what keeps developers developing.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

For me, developing on OS X seems easier then Windows (not including VB here). I still have much more to learn about the Windows APIs, but so far I like Cocoa much better then Win32.

[hotch]

Originally Posted by turbulentfurball OMGWTF!!!1eleventyone!! I never saw that coming. Thanks to Apple for not releasing it on the first

qft

[zsummers]

Given that this is a disincentive to some developers, couldn't this be a signal from Apple that they are going to push out even more into creating & developing software suites of their own? That seems to be the most logical conclusion given the past few years: iWork, iLife, Appeture, Final Cut, etc. Apple has been coming close to covering most of the basics with their own software in the last few years, at least for regular users like me. And Apple is no longer dependent on Microsoft to provide the Office Suite, etc., if things ever did become nasty.

In other words, might their goal be to become a near full-service software company (and thus not dependent on outside developers porting software over), with gaming (a far too large market for them to cover) supported by making the machines Windows-bootable? It might not be a marketshare ploy, but instead a ploy for the margins Apple makes on selling its own software titles. That's just my two-cents, and I'm sure it's flawed. But I'd like to hear what others think.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Holy shit!

That is all.

[originalpckelly]

I don't think you understand, you have to register (Activatation) every copy of Windows, so can't just use same copy you already had for another computer or it won't work. (Even if you could, most computers don't come with a full version of Windows anymore.) People this is no worse or better than going out and buying a copy of Virtual PC, only it cost about 20-40 bucks less and runs a lot faster. If anything it is a little more cumbersome because you have to restart your computer everytime you want to use Windows. I think Apple is brilliant. They keep their software, but use Windows for games (that market has had a long time to develop for Mac and it just isn't there) and old software. Since you have to pay about 200 bucks to get Windows it isn't probably gonna kill Mac OS. Yet there is always the possibility to run Windows if something great comes out only for it. Microsoft won't get pissed because they still make money. It is the best of both worlds, even if one of those worlds is evil and doesn't have much good in it. I want a new iMac so bad now!

[Luca]

I don't see many companies discontinuing their Mac versions. A lot of Mac users (primarily the ones who don't need to run Windows programs) are not going to want to buy a full copy of WinXP Pro just to run an app that they've always run natively in the past.

My mom, for instance, has used only a Mac and Mac versions of Illustrator and Photoshop for over 15 years. Why should she all of a sudden have to pay an extra $100+ just to buy WinXP to maintain compatibility with the programs she's used for so long? And why should she have to put up with a cruddy Windows interface for that program? It just doesn't make much sense.

[JohnnyTheA]

Originally Posted by alcimedes If their marketshare goes from 5% to 10%, I promise you everyone will continue to port and write software for Mac OS. (big budget games being the exception)

Think about this: If Apple now doubles the number of Macs they sell, the "experts" will attribute this to people booting and running Windows on the Macs. So a 10% Marketshare won't be a bigger reason to develop for OSX. People will still say Windows has 90%+ Marketshare (or whatever it is). So this is not good for the people who fixate on the OS Wars, but good for Apple because it will increase sales.

Johnny

[meaningless]

After all this being said - I think that there is a legitimate concern for the future of apps supplied by major companies that serve multi-platforms. Just a concern, not a death knell. It seems tempting to make that conclusion that these companies will see dollar benefits in reducing or abandoning OS X development - since after all, we can now access the Windows enviroment from our platform of choice. It all depends on how Apple continues to market and position inself. Edit to add: It also depends on how we (the users) make ourselves heard in this matter. It is a huge gamble. In any case, companies (like Aspyr for games) that do a majority or all of their business porting apps to OS X for our benefit, well, I think that they might have to re-visit their business models.

Nonetheless, we know Apple being Apple, there is usually something more than what we see on the surface. Madricard always says it best: "Hope springs eternal".

[psmith2.0]

709 and alcimedes' posts above are exactly what I'm thinking: I'M not worried about anything, and, if anything, it'll probably contribute to more Mac sales and acceptance. And truthfully, Adobe is the only third-party app I really use and count on...and they aren't going anywhere, I'm sure!

Everything else I do on my Mac is Apple software-based anyway (Address Book, Mail, Safari, iLife, iTunes, iChat, iCal, iSync, TextEdit, Preview, Sherlock, Dashboard, etc.).

I personally have no need for doing this, but I'm not gonna slam anyone who does. I'd rather see them not have to spend money for a separate PC, and just be able to do everything - Mac and Windows - on one sleek, attractive iMac or whatever.

It's getting some play in the press today: it's on CNN's site, and it was just talked about during the ABC Radio News break at the noon hour.