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MacBook Rev. B?
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Joshua
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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2006-05-19, 15:30

Hi All...

I know they just came out, and I'm not being a spec whore, but...traditionally, how long does it usually take Apple to rev a new product, historically that is?

I may be able to get my work to get me a MacBook, but I really have never liked Rev. A of anything, so I'd rather wait for the second revision.

Thanks guys.

iMac G3
iMac G5
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Engine Joe
Going Strange...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2006-05-19, 15:44

Who knows? We're in a different world than we were with the PPC chips. With Intel, the revisions may be (relatively speaking) fast and furious.

By some people's reckoning, we're already on Rev C of the MBPs. I'd consider it more like Rev. B (or even Rev A.1), but it all depends on what you consider a revision to be.
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Luca
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2006-05-19, 15:45

That's probably a good idea if only to allow them some time to work out all the little annoying issues that often crop up with Rev. A products. In the past, Apple's released updated products every 6-10 months, but with the transition to Intel processors they've been making smaller, more frequent updates.

I'd say no less than 4 months from now, and no more than... well, ten months.
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Ghost2
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2006-05-19, 15:48

I think we will definitely see the macbook upgraded to the intel core 2 duo before the end of the year.
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macleod
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2006-05-19, 15:53

Why would they do that when they could use it as a seperating feature between the MB and the MBP?
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chucker
 
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2006-05-19, 16:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACleod
Why would they do that when they could use it as a seperating feature between the MB and the MBP?
For the same reason they didn't put a Core Solo into the MB "as a separating feature".
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macleod
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2006-05-19, 16:03

Touche! (good point chucker)
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chucker
 
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2006-05-19, 16:11

Heck, compare the CPUs available:


The low-end MacBook is the same as the former low-end MacBook Pro. The mid- and high-end MacBook is the same as the new low-end and former mid-end MacBook Pro. Heck, in January, when the MacBook Pros were originally previewed, the high-end MacBook pro was only 1.83 GHz, which is now the low-end of the MacBook!

All very close together. No reason to believe Intel Core 2 would change this.
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Wyatt
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2006-05-19, 16:47

Exactly, chucker. Apple's using different features now to differentiate their lines, rather than just the processors. They want people to know that each and every Mac is among the most powerful computers in their respective categories.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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shell
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Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-05-19, 17:08

Price is the issue here. When Core64 comes out, the price of today's core duos will drop by 50%, allowing Apple to place their entry level laptop again at the magic number $999, while remaining reasonably powerful. As to why they put the duo in the MacBook and not the cheaper solo; I think they want to transition their entire line to 2+ cores as soon as possible, everything now is save for the cheapest mini. I expect that to change soon.
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rasmits
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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2006-05-19, 17:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by shell
As to why they put the duo in the MacBook and not the cheaper solo; I think they want to transition their entire line to 2+ cores as soon as possible, everything now is save for the cheapest mini. I expect that to change soon.
A Duo costs Apple about $50 more than a Solo. It wouldn't be worth it. The Mac Mini has very low margins by Apple's standards, so the $50 actually makes a difference.

You had me at asl
.......
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-05-19, 18:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by shell
Price is the issue here. When Core64 comes out, the price of today's core duos will drop by 50%, allowing Apple to place their entry level laptop again at the magic number $999, while remaining reasonably powerful. As to why they put the duo in the MacBook and not the cheaper solo; I think they want to transition their entire line to 2+ cores as soon as possible, everything now is save for the cheapest mini. I expect that to change soon.
The name is now official. It's Core 2, not Core64.

I think the MacBook will drop to $999, yes, but I don't think that using the older Core (1) processor is the only way to hit that magic number, nor do I think that it will be the path Apple will take. Everything else in the MacBook will drop in price over time, too.

After the Core 2 comes out, you're not going to see many more Core (1) computers - most companies will jump onto the new processor fairly quickly. How many Pentium III computers were produced after the Pentium 4 was introduced? Consumers know "Pentium," they're growing to know "Core," and nobody wants to be stuck with the "old" processor - even if the only difference they know is that one has a higher number.

The days of Apple separating its lines by using totally different processors in each line are over. They were over with the iMac G5, arguably with the iBook G4, and certainly with the Intel era.

No other company will be selling Core (1) processors far into the Core 2 era, and there's no reason why Apple should be any different.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Robo
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2006-05-19, 18:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Heck, compare the CPUs available:

The low-end MacBook is the same as the former low-end MacBook Pro. The mid- and high-end MacBook is the same as the new low-end and former mid-end MacBook Pro. Heck, in January, when the MacBook Pros were originally previewed, the high-end MacBook pro was only 1.83 GHz, which is now the low-end of the MacBook!

All very close together. No reason to believe Intel Core 2 would change this.
While I think that Apple would like to differentiate the lines a little more when more chips arrive (I don't think Apple will want to have the high-end MacBook and the low-end MacBook Pro sharing a processor, for example), I agree that saying one will use an older generation of processor is pretty extreme.

Ideally, I think Apple would want their current line-up to look like this:

MacBook - 1.83 GHz
MacBook with SuperDrive/Black MacBook - 2.0 Ghz
MacBook Pro (15-inch) - 2.17 GHz
MacBook Pro (17-inch) - 2.33 Ghz

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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vasili
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Join Date: May 2005
 
2006-05-19, 18:59

What did they fix or change in MBP rev B and C besides going from 2GHz to 2.16GHz?
Please stop with all this waiting for faster better things, you will never enjoy the great product of today. MacBooks were out for 4 days now.
Later you will have Core 3 Duo(or whatever), guys enjoy the present.
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Luca
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2006-05-19, 19:05

Joshua is still raising a valid concern. If he doesn't need one now, why buy one now? Even if the specs are fine, there are still kinks to be worked out, and perhaps a restructuring of the lineup slightly to eliminate the "black tax." I also think they'll drop the price back down to $999 in one or two revisions. Apple always raises the price because they know the redesign is going to be popular, so why not charge people an extra $100?
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Joshua
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2006-05-19, 19:09

God Damn this thread took off. I left work and got home and there were 12 replies already, geeeez.

Well I could really care less about a few hundred MHz bump in the CPU. And now that I think about it that would be aboput the only thing they would 'improve'.

I guess I'll just sit tight for a week or two and wait to see if there's any issues, like heat and crakling noises on the Rev. A of the MBP.

I'm really itching for a laptop w/ OS X, I miss it when I'm at work, and now that we have Boot Camp and Parrelism (although both 'bleeding edge') I can justify it alot easier saying, Hey, it does Windows, no worries.

Actually I think I was more worried about them dropping the price in a few months,, more so than indistinguishable bumps on the CPU.

iMac G3
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MacBook
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Joshua
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2006-05-19, 19:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Joshua is still raising a valid concern. If he doesn't need one now, why buy one now? Even if the specs are fine, there are still kinks to be worked out, and perhaps a restructuring of the lineup slightly to eliminate the "black tax." I also think they'll drop the price back down to $999 in one or two revisions. Apple always raises the price because they know the redesign is going to be popular, so why not charge people an extra $100?
You sound like my wife Luca.

I really don't need it 'now', but I much rather use OS X at work, and since I was itching to get an iBook for months, and considering I wasn't foolish enough to get one before they went intel, I think there isn't really a reason not to.

Except like I said my analness of getting any Rev. A products. But running Tiger 24/7 is like a wet dream come true. I'm the network admin so there wouldn't be any issues.

Besides, I could really care less about the 'black tax', to be honest I'd probably pay $50-$100 more for white.

iMac G3
iMac G5
MacBook

Last edited by Joshua : 2006-05-19 at 19:43.
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Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-05-20, 00:30

Well, to tell you the truth I predict revision B is no better than revision A. Why you ask? Simple. Merom is an entirely new architecture, which means that while it is still extremely compatible with SSE3 and all that fun stuff, there are new features on it that will probably give some kernel panic atleast for a bit.

In general, I don't think you'll see too many "revision B"s are you guys are used to. They will switch to Merom obviously when the time comes. That is basically a fresh start. After that, they will switch chipsets when that comes to Napa64 or whatever. Thats essentially a fresh start. By that time the next update comes, something later and greater will come.

We surely won't be on the same processor for 3 years again :-)



As for my thoughts on revision B of the macbook, I think they throw in a slow gpu. It would not at all surprise me if the mbp's have an SLI config or something by that point. I think they'll put in a gpu, and create a bigger mhz gap rather than having the mhz close and no gpu.
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shell
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Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-05-20, 00:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
After the Core 2 comes out, you're not going to see many more Core (1) computers - most companies will jump onto the new processor fairly quickly. How many Pentium III computers were produced after the Pentium 4 was introduced? Consumers know "Pentium," they're growing to know "Core," and nobody wants to be stuck with the "old" processor - even if the only difference they know is that one has a higher number.

The days of Apple separating its lines by using totally different processors in each line are over. They were over with the iMac G5, arguably with the iBook G4, and certainly with the Intel era.
Intel has maintained different product lines for high and low end uses for quite some time now (centrino, pentium, xeon), and I doubt the core processors will change that market strategy. Yes, Apple could choose to transition everything over to Core 2 as soon as possible, a quick transition to fully 64 bit, or they could choose to hold off, leave the Macbooks with the "obsolete" processor for 6-8 months, and lower prices. It'll be interesting to see what they do.
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chucker
 
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2006-05-20, 00:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by shell
Intel has maintained different product lines for high and low end uses for quite some time now (centrino, pentium, xeon),
I assume you mean "Celeron", not "Centrino".

"Centrino" describes the combination of a Celeron M-, Pentium M- or Intel Core-based computer with a specific Intel chipset and Intel WiFi chip.
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kgarchar
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Join Date: Apr 2006
 
2006-05-20, 00:44

this kinda bugs me...does this mean that in 6 months, the core duo will be done?
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chucker
 
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2006-05-20, 00:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgarchar
this kinda bugs me...does this mean that in 6 months, the core duo will be done?
Even the Core Solo Mac mini will likely become a Core 2 Duo by the end of the year.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-05-20, 07:39

Core 2 and GMA 965 seem like a good bet. While still integrated graphics, these are to have much improved 3D support and memory bandwidth as part of the Broadwater chipset. So graphics performance should improve significantly.

The near term solution that makes the most sense is for the Black model to get a little more special. While having the same chipset as the white -- it would ship with more base RAM, maybe an insignificant number of Hz more speed than the white, larger standard HDD, and an illuminated keyboard -- making it something of a junior powerbook.

.........................................
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Robo
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2006-05-20, 10:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
I assume you mean "Celeron", not "Centrino".

"Centrino" describes the combination of a Celeron M-, Pentium M- or Intel Core-based computer with a specific Intel chipset and Intel WiFi chip.
Yes. And, shell, assuming you mean Celeron, Pentium, and Xeon...

I'm not talking about Apple using different "levels" of Intel's line - that much they'll certainly do. I'm talking about using an older generation processor on the low end, and a new generation processor on the high end.

And Intel is getting rid of the Pentium name - and hopefully Celeron, as well. And Xeon might simply become a part of that vPro "platform" (as if the world needed another Centrino or Viiv).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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steve77uk
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2006-05-29, 17:18

Hi

I am a Microsoft Technician at work, but it is nice to come home to my iMac G5 Rev B - people said there were LOTS of issues with the Rev A, then I see threads that said the Rev B had problems which they improved in Rev C and so on... Yes my Rev B had a couple of problems such as rebooting constantly but I took it to the apple store and they fixed it with a motherboard swap - that was the only issue - but then again, thousands of other people have not had that issue, at the end of the day you will get this with electrical parts and other electronical wizardry. It is the same with TVs and cars but you don't hear people complaining big time about that. You don't hear people with DELLS complaining that their new Dimension 8400 has the odd hiccup and they are thrown together.

I am sitting here typing this on a Revision A MacBook Black after saying to myself I want to get rid of my XP desktop at home for a portable, I went to PC World looked at XP laptops but thought sod it, went to Apple and came out with this MacBook. Do I regret spending the extra? No, do I feel ripped off that I spent the bit extra on the Black version? No - because people can automatically differentiate that I have got the posher version (I never get the chance to get top stuff) - will I be worried that I bought the more expesive top model for it to be replaced in 6 months? No because I am happy as Larry now, love it to bits, getting rid of my clunky XP Desktop and have already installed BootCamp and have XP running when I need it for work now and then - and boy does it run quicker!!!!

The MacBook revision I have got now, runs iLife like a dream, runs MS Office - not really noticed any difference - I surf the net, email etc - it does the job I want it to and it is near or better spec than the iMac G5 I bought last year - people are still out there happy with their iBook G4's and 3's!

Go for it -- buy one - I love mine!

Sorry - yes I can waffle but I find it funny that I am a MS Techie and love Macs!
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-05-29, 21:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
I'm not talking about Apple using different "levels" of Intel's line - that much they'll certainly do. I'm talking about using an older generation processor on the low end, and a new generation processor on the high end.
Interesting. I'd assumed that the Core and Core2 models would live side-by-side for a while. Do you think the second will replace the first?
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chucker
 
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2006-05-29, 22:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
Interesting. I'd assumed that the Core and Core2 models would live side-by-side for a while. Do you think the second will replace the first?
Um, why exactly wouldn't it?
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-05-30, 00:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Um, why exactly wouldn't it?
Because I don't remember the last time that Intel didn't have at least two chip families "in the wild" simultaneously. Pentium and Celeron, for example.

Core 2 Duo is going to be a pricey chip, and Intel's not going to abandon the bargain market.
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Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-05-30, 00:54

there will probably be laptops available to be purchased from manufacturers, but I am sure intel will stop shipping core duo at that time and it will only be available through companies trying to clear out inventory

Celeron != core duo.

core 2 is a new architecture, so celeron core (or whatever the name it) will be a lower mhz, less l2 cache version of core 2.
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chucker
 
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2006-05-30, 03:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
Because I don't remember the last time that Intel didn't have at least two chip families "in the wild" simultaneously. Pentium and Celeron, for example.
Celeron isn't a "predecessor of Pentium". Intel Core 1 is, however, a predecessor of Intel Core 2.

Low-cost chips will continue to be available, but Apple has so far given little indication that they care to use them. The low-end Mac mini is the only Mac that's even single-core any more, and judging from the MacBook, that will probably change soon enough as well. Apple don't use the Celeron M, which would be essentially a "cheap/low-end predecessor of the Core Solo"; they could easily have, but opted not to. They also don't use the Pentium 4, Pentium D, or Celeron D.

I see no reason to believe they will use Core 1 anywhere once they start upgrading their Macs, one after another, with Core 2.
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