User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Apple Products »

27" iMac, new i5 or refurb i7 ?


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
27" iMac, new i5 or refurb i7 ?
Thread Tools
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 05:19

Hi folks, so whaddayallthink?

I can get a 3.2Ghz i5 Haswell or a 3.4Ghz i7 Ivy Bridge for basically the same price. Both come with 1GB VRAM; the i5 is a GT755m and the i7 is a GTX675MX. I don't game. This is strictly a photoshop rig, maybe the odd bit of video if I get into that at a later date. My current abode doesn't have much room for a multi-monitor set-up unfortunately, but the iMac screen is probably good enough. I'll still connect this old Dell 19" for palettes and Bridge file browsing. I'll add a 16GB crucial kit (for 24GB total) or whatever the campus store supplies if the deals are worthwhile.

I'm not shy about opening up the iMac to get at the drive bays. In the i5 I'll have the ability to add PCIe SSD, on the i7 would have to use SATA internally, or move the system drive to an external via thunderbolt.

Thoughts?

.........................................
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-11-03, 08:34

The one with the lower TDP?
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 09:36

Depends on how it effects battery life

I kid but it is a worthwhile consideration that probably has an impact in overall reliability.

Last edited by Matsu : 2013-11-03 at 09:51.
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-11-03, 10:00

Yes, it probably affects reliability in the long-term – such as over the six or seven years you’ll keep this! (And hey, why not?) There’s also the question of fan noise, which bothers me inordinately but might not bother you at all. Maybe even electricity usage over several years.

Did you look up the processors in question on Intel ARK to see if they have any useful differences? Do they both support Hyper-Threading? In the past at least, some Intel desktop i5s did not have Hyper-Threading. Worth checking.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 11:31

I thought none of the i5's supported hyper threading, not even the desktop CPUs, which sort of prompted my question. Some of the latest image processing tools are becoming very compute intensive in order to eeek out additional image quality improvements. Take DxO's new PRIME noise reduction. I'm not convinced its better than noise ninja or CS6 tools, at least not from the scant 3rd party information available online - I've only found one review with samples, and there's no revelation in signal processing there, but it could be the test methodology. What concerns me more is the processing time for each image has gone from a few seconds to a few minutes. Once software engineers start chasing each other for the last nth degree of perceptible image quality, we might expect more of the same trade offs in heavily compute intensive processes vs quick real-time manipulation.

Last edited by Matsu : 2013-11-03 at 16:15.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 11:44

Reading Apple's page about the iMac, sounds like only the i7 has hyper threading.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-11-03, 11:50

The one thing I would add here is that we're probably about six weeks, give or take, from current-generation, Haswell-based refurb iMacs appearing at the refurb store. The iMacs were updated on September 24, and it takes about 2-3 months for them to start showing up. I figure by early/mid-December they'll start trickling in?

So if you can drag this decision-making out another month-and-a-half, it might work in your favor and you can add those models (27" i7 Haswell iMacs with the newer graphics, etc.) to the equation.

You and everyone else here knows damn well you're not going to decide on one - and actually pull the trigger - by year's end anyway, so...

  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 12:25

Going for fiscal year end then

I might have to some sort of unboxing party to commemorate the rare event.

Last edited by Matsu : 2013-11-03 at 16:13.
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-11-03, 15:26

The mobile i5 processors, like the one in my new MacBook Pro, do have Hyper-Threading. The desktop i5 parts I just checked do not, but of course they tend to have four cores. I wouldn’t obsess about Hyper-Threading, but if it’s useful anywhere it’s probably useful in efficiently threaded imaging apps.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 16:50

What's the typical discount % for current generation refurbs, say, compared to the typical edu discount? More, less, about the same. I do have access to the edu store.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-11-03, 17:30

The refurbs are a hell of a lot more! Probably because, technically, they're "used".

I think the educational discounts, last I checked, were pretty piss-poor and, IMO, barely worth fooling with (the $1,299 iMac goes down to $1,249). That's almost insulting. Although I guess $50 does buy quite a bit of Ramen noodles, Keystone Light and condoms...

On the two 27" models (base configurations, as shown at the site), they go for $1,699 and $1,899 (down $100 from the $1,799 and $1,999 prices). A little better than $50, sure.

Refurbs, once you get past that $1,500 or so mark, can easily be $300+. My iMac was $1,499 new, but I got it for $1,049, so that's $450. The greatest deal in the world. It also matters if it's current-generation or one generation removed. That's why mine was such a good buy. I got it in September of 2008, after the line was updated in spring of 2008. So I didn't get a current-generation refurb. When the current-generation models of any line do hit the refurb section, the previous-generation refurbs really drop in price! That's how I got mine for $1,049...

When these current-generation iMacs hit the refurb section in another 4-6 weeks, the 2012 models above will all get an additional cut as well (so even that's something to bear in mind...even if you're not interested in a refurb current-generation, it's often worth waiting around for them to appear because they always make the previous-generation refurbs drop even lower. Those 2012 models above that are going for $1,699 and $1,899 will probably drop to $1,479-$1,529 and maybe $1,549-1,699 respectively. Give or take. It varies, but I've seen previous-generation refurbs drop an additional $150-200 immediately, the day the current-generation models hit the refurb store. That's when you can really save some $$$ (like I did).

In a nutshell, there's a super-good chance you could snag an i7-based 27" 2012 iMac (with some other BTO upgrades like upgraded graphics or hard drive configurations) for under $1,799 (which is the price of an i5-based stock, entry-level 2012 27" model).

Looking at the refurbs right now (even though they're all the 2012 iMacs, but it'll give you an idea):

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ls/mac/imac/27

The $1,799 model is going for $1,439 and the $1,999 model is going for $1,499 ($400 off!). Blows that $100 savings all to hell.

Following those two, you see a ton of other models available with various BTO options in place (they don't have the original price listed, but it's easy enough to figure out. But at that $1,500+ level, you're easily going to save $300 or more off the original price.

If you see something listed there for $1,899 or $1,949, I can just about promise you it was $2,300+ new.

And you get the same warranty and warranty options as any new Mac (one year coverage, and the option to buy the two-year AppleCare for three total years).

Good info here, if you've never read it before.

In all my refurb experience (my iMac, my Mom's Mac mini, iMac and MacBook, my sister's iMac, my uncle's iMac, my ex-wife's MacBook and iMac, my Mom's best friend's MacBook, etc. - all of which I personally unboxed and/or set up), the only thing that is different is that they come in a white, plain packaging without all the spiffy photography and other stuff you get when you buy a brand new Mac.

All the accessories, manuals, keyboard/mouse (in the case of an iMac) - and even the two white stickers - are present in the refurbs. And they don't sell beat-to-hell crap either. I've yet to see any scuffs, dings, cracks, etc. on any of this stuff. I couldn't believe mine was a refurb. I looked it over, every square millimeter. Any mark that's on it now, that's from me. Because it had none. If I didn't see the plain box it came in (and that goes for all the above), I never would've known it was a refurb.

IMO, if you're willing to wait about 2.5-4 months from the original release date, you're going to save yourself at least $150 for something originally in that $999-1,199 neighborhood...and sometimes $170-200). But like I said, the higher up in price it goes, as in your scenario with the 27" iMacs, the bigger the discounts. The 27" iMacs are always $250-400+(!) off their new pricing, as they're up into that upper-$1,000's range. You get some of those BTO models that would go for $2,300 or so new, they're going to be under $2,000.

To me, it's the people with work budgets/purchases, or who truly need something immediately (because their current machine truly gave it up and took a dive) or who are just impatient and don't want to wait at all, ever, for anything, who buy the new gear the moment it hits the streets. If that works for you, that's great. It ain't my money, knock yourselves out. But if you don't fall into any of those three scenarios, you're almost insane to not cool your jets for a few months if you know you can save yourself $300 or more. In your case $300+ is going to buy a ton of RAM or whatever else you were thinking about...

The 11" and 13" MacBook Airs are now routinely on the refurb section, going for $150-400 or so less than their new prices. The current-generation iMacs will soon be joining them (by mid-December, I'm betting) and then the just-released MacBook Pros will probably pop up by late January or sometime in February.

I follow this shit like nobody else (ask around ), I can set my clock to it. It's a pattern I've yet to see break in the 4-5 years I've been monitoring the refurb thing.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2013-11-03 at 17:49.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-03, 17:41

Could coincide perfectly with the christmas season then. I'm going to be patient, but I am registering for some more advanced photoshop and illustrator classes out of the graphics design dept in January, so it sort of sets a limit unless I want to keep trolling the labs...

.........................................
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-11-03, 17:54

Well, three months exactly from September 24 is December 24, so yeah...right there in that Christmas zone. But that's about the "magic mark" I've noticed. Some things take longer than others, for whatever reason (the 2013 13" MacBook Airs seemed to take a bit longer than usual to show up as refurbs, appearing within just the past three or so weeks, actually), whereas the 11" models were appearing, in abundance and non-stop, in early/mid-September). Even now, the 2013 13" models come and go, day to day. But 11" are always available (2012 and 2013).

I've seen things hit as soon as two-and-a-half months, and as late as four or so. Both of those timeframes are the exceptions/oddballs. Three months, give or take 7-10 days, seems to be that sweet spot when most things seem to start showing up. I expect to start seeing 2013 iMacs showing up before the end of December. They'd be one of those exceptions if they didn't. That week of Christmas will mark the third month...
  quote
Boomerangmacuser
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
 
2013-11-04, 01:08

If you have a corporate or EDU discount, it applies to the refurbs as well. I have access to both. I work for a company that has a Mac discount and my wife works at a university. If I look at the refurb pages, the discounts get deeper (by a little bit) when I log in under those sites and look at the exact same machine in the refurb section. I believe eve Black Friday deals even apply to refurb! but the new iMacs won't hit the refurb page in time for that. Hope this helps.

Won't go back
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-04, 10:01

I've never seen the option to stack discounts from edu onto refurbs, not online, nor in store.

The two campus stores I've used never offer refurb edu prices either. My current store, and I assume my previous one, did offer some unadvertised pricing based on their own institutional purchasing - usually on just a couple of models, or only one from each line, with a much better than average discount. Sometimes a really good one, updated once or twice a year in the form of a printed list of SKUs that contains bulk licence prices for various software applications. However, in recent years the hardware discounts have become quite modest by comparison.

How do you access edu refurb via the Apple store?
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-04, 11:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I've never seen the option to stack discounts from edu onto refurbs, not online, nor in store.
Neither do I. The overall discount % goes down, when compared to non-Edu, simply because the starting price is lower. And price is same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
How do you access edu refurb via the Apple store?
For comparison; I went to Edu store, then scrolled to the bottom and access refurb. The top of the page still says "Shop Mac for Education" in my case.

User formally known as Sh0eWax
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-04, 12:18

Mine shows the same thing but the prices are exactly the same for refurbs whether or not you're in the education store.
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-04, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Mine shows the same thing but the prices are exactly the same for refurbs whether or not you're in the education store.
Yes, final price is the same. But the % discount is actually smaller in the Edu store because the non-discounted price is lower - that is all I was saying.
  quote
Boomerangmacuser
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
 
2013-11-05, 00:34

The last time I did this comparison shopping was a couple of years ago. They must have changed it because I would look at the price of a refurb iMac and then log in through my corporate site and the same machine was less. Can't remember if the % discount changed though. Sorry to have teased you like that.

Won't go back
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-05, 03:57

Might have changed. The amount of edu discount certainly has. The individual "retail" edu discount is now very small, and the institutional or bulk purchase is only just a little better. Not sure if apple has instructed college/universities to stop offering these to students, or limit them significantly, but a few years ago they used to offer substantially better savings than the normal edu discount.
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-11-05, 04:23

I think it’s more a case of Apple not wanting to bribe students to buy things they already consider essential. Even when I was at uni several years ago, Macs were the dominant choice for students (e.g. maybe 70–80 % of students had them. Really!).

The other reason for the weak education discounts may be that too many people dishonestly use the education store when they have nothing to do with education.

In the UK there are two different types of education discount, one better than the other. If you log on from a university network you get access to greater discounts.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-05, 09:23

I always needed to produce a student or staff ID, but just having any student number was/is enough, even now that I'm only a part timer.
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-11-05, 09:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I always needed to produce a student or staff ID, but just having any student number was/is enough, even now that I'm only a part timer.
Yeah, and what’s to stop you furnishing your whole extended family with discounted Macs from the education store? You’ll need your student ID to get them, but your friends and family members won’t need it to use them. In Europe, at least, students can buy two Macs a year at the education discount. Lots of students did/do.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-11-05, 09:41

Our limit was always one laptop and one desktop. I'm sure people abused it, but I don't blame them, nor do I think it ever added up to a significant number of grifters.

Last edited by Matsu : 2013-11-05 at 09:54.
  quote
Boomerangmacuser
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
 
2013-11-05, 19:05

I don't think Apple really cares. They move product. My corporate login doesn't require any kind of validation. It's a unique URL and you simply acknowledge that you're staff. They caveat is IF they ask you for proof of being staff and you can't produce it, you must pay what was discounted. Big whoop.

Won't go back
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refurb current-generation iMac question (what OS and iLife?) psmith2.0 Genius Bar 3 2012-03-25 05:26
Refurb MacBooks showing up in the refurb store! psmith2.0 Apple Products 5 2008-12-30 20:18
MPB 15" refurb? deknk12 Purchasing Advice 8 2006-05-16 20:20
Got Refurb 1.8 ghz 17" iMac - buzzes like chainsaw Fooboy Apple Products 6 2006-03-30 23:08
iMac G5 Energy Saver - Are you "Auto" or "Maximum"? Gizzer General Discussion 1 2004-10-12 17:14


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2024, AppleNova