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Will the powerbook be upgraded soon?


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Will the powerbook be upgraded soon?
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allam89
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Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-05-28, 09:05

I'm still holding out on buying the powerbook. Do you think it will be updated soon. Maybe at WWDC? I'm not talking about major G5 type update but maybe a speed bump. Speculate
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pv2b
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2005-05-28, 09:18

Personally, I don't think so. The Powerbook G4 line was bumped fairly recently already. (January 31).

Other than that, I don't really see anything that can be improved on that series besides a speedbump. Architecturally, it's pretty much a dead end, with no real possibility for upgrades left in it, so even if there is a slight speedbump, it won't really be a big deal. And even if there IS a speedbump, increased CPU clock won't really translate into that much of a performance increase. The consensus seems to be that the bottleneck is in the bus, which isn't that easy to just "bump".

In fact, if I were to buy a Powerbook 15" today, I'd rather save the money and get the lower-clocked version and BTO it with a superdrive. (Unfortunately, you can't get the lower-clocked version with a 128 MB graphics card, but I don't think that's such a big deal. Your milage may vary.)

So, my advice? Even if there is a speedbump at the WWDC, which is *very* unlikely if you look at the pattern of Powerbook speedbumps at the past, it's not worth waiting for.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the Powerbook G5:s either. They're still going to take a while. And even if you are prepared to wait for the Powerbook G5, I caution strongly against buying any kind of Rev A product from Apple.

So the bottom line? If you want a computer now, buy it *now*. There's nothing in the near future worth waiting for, unless you're willing to wait more than a year or so.
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allam89
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2005-05-28, 10:13

How about a graphics card upgrade for the 12 inch powerbook. I mean the 5200 is a little too weak for a Powerbook. Is it possible to fit a more powerful graphics card into the 12 inch anyway? Would the 9700 fit? If it is possible, so you think WWDC will see an upgrade?
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pv2b
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2005-05-28, 10:17

I don't know if it's possible. Maybe it is. Either way, I don't think we're going to see any PB upgrades at the WWDC, it's still too soon. There are also the heat and battery life issues to contend with in a form factor as small as the PB12"...
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kinsella217
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2005-05-28, 11:07

In three days, the current Powerbook will be celebrating it's six-month birthday. Granted, a refresh at this point would be, according to MacRumors, would be two months ahead of the PowerBook average life-cycle, but a product refresh within that span it is not without precedent.
Furthermore, the iBook has, using the same source, outlived it's normal update cycle by almost the exact same time frame; slightly over two months. There simply is no place for the iBook to go, without stepping on the toes of the far more expensive PowerBook platform. The iBook is, of course, Apple's number one selling laptop, and barring some kind of version A PowerMac G4 catastrophe (where Apple had to sell the same or slower model for an absurd period of time), the iBook issue will wind up forcing Apple to push some kind of update for the PowerBook.
Now all of these facts do not demand an update at WWDC, necessarily, but Apple simply can't wait until the fall to make changes to their laptop line.
I will buy whatever Apple comes out with to update the 17" PB line. Personally, I refuse to spend $2700 on a laptop with a 167 mhz bus speed, and speaking only for myself, I do not care if the next version has a G5 or a newer G4 with a faster bus speed (the 7448 has a 200 mhz bus and forgive me for forgetting the name of the dual core G4 that Apple might possibly use). My line of thinking tells me that a $2700 laptop should not merely barely squeak past the performance level of a $599 Mac Mini, so when Apple does refresh the PB line, be it at WWDC or later in the summer, I'll be ready to put cash on the table.
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Kyros
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2005-05-28, 12:50

Dude it's celebrating its 4 month birthday, it's not going to get updated.
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reidman
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2005-05-28, 13:00

Yeah, I pretty much stopped reading your post when you said 'six month birthday'.

The powerbook isn't being upgraded any time soon.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-28, 13:02

Am I the only one who would prefer a G4 processor to a G5 in my laptop? Let's look at the pros and cons, were Apple to actually do this:

Pros:
Faster

Cons:
Larger, much hotter, much more power-hungry

Even if I was given the option of a G5 in my 'book, even if cost weren't a factor, I would much rather have a G4 processor. They're cooler, more efficient, smaller, and very reliable.

Would a 200Mhz bump in speed really merit above-mentioned shortfalls? No, they could never put in a G5 past 1.5-1.7 Ghz in your 'book, given the constraints of a portable application. The 'books are hot enough as it is without dealing with the heat output of a G5. If they put a G5 in the Powerbook/iBook, there would have to be a larger cooling system, a bigger battery, and a larger space for it. Your 'book would start to look like a peecee laptop, and have the battery life of a battery-powered microwave oven. Due to these factors, your 'book would suffer internally in the long run. A step backwards, in my opinion.

Who here is dissatisfied with the speed of their 'book to the point where you would accept a hotter, fatter, and more power-hungry laptop for a 20-30% increase in speed? Would you really accept the trade-off?

(silence, then muted coughing in back of room)

Yeah, that's what I thought. you're not going to edit HD in 720p using FCP on your Powerbook for 8 hours a day. That's what the Powermac is for.

I could see 3 people buying a Powerbook G5:
-The Spec-Whore rich kid who needs his nerd-on fix
-The African Safari backpacking tour guide who absolutely needs to edit 720p in FCP while in the wilderness
-Steve Jobs' golf buddies

Any task that needs a G5 should be done on a desktop. 99.99% of laptop users would have no use for a PB G5. Apple knows that too.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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thegelding
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2005-05-28, 13:29

eh, time and specs almost always move forward...when the G4 was in the PM only and the portables were all G3, it could have been argued that "who needs a G4 in a laptop? Get a desktop for that"...

from my experience, tiger loves a fast G5 and portables and minis are likely the future so apple will find a way to get a G5 into that market

g

not in 6 to 10 days mind you...

i see speedbumped iBooks soon, which mean speedbumped PB likely also

then possibly G5 PB around x-mas

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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defaultmike
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2005-05-28, 13:39

hey man, sorry to burst your bubble in which the G4 is more than enough for laptop users, but it's not enough at all. I'm a graphic designer, and though I have my powermac G5, which is more than enough for me, some people want to have a mobile workstation, heck, they need it. Many designers work freelance in ad agencies. People who need the power shouldn't be told to stick with a desktop just cuz IBM can't make a cool enough G5 to put in a laptop.

There's a huge market for a powerful Apple laptop, and Apple's missing out on it bcuz of IBM.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-28, 13:43

Maybe I'm missing something, but my 1.2Ghz iBook will run Photoshop CS without a hitch. No speed complaints at all.
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Jason
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2005-05-28, 15:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans
Am I the only one who would prefer a G4 processor to a G5 in my laptop? Let's look at the pros and cons, were Apple to actually do this:

Pros:
Faster

Cons:
Larger, much hotter, much more power-hungry

Even if I was given the option of a G5 in my 'book, even if cost weren't a factor, I would much rather have a G4 processor. They're cooler, more efficient, smaller, and very reliable.

Would a 200Mhz bump in speed really merit above-mentioned shortfalls? No, they could never put in a G5 past 1.5-1.7 Ghz in your 'book, given the constraints of a portable application. The 'books are hot enough as it is without dealing with the heat output of a G5. If they put a G5 in the Powerbook/iBook, there would have to be a larger cooling system, a bigger battery, and a larger space for it. Your 'book would start to look like a peecee laptop, and have the battery life of a battery-powered microwave oven. Due to these factors, your 'book would suffer internally in the long run. A step backwards, in my opinion.

Who here is dissatisfied with the speed of their 'book to the point where you would accept a hotter, fatter, and more power-hungry laptop for a 20-30% increase in speed? Would you really accept the trade-off?

(silence, then muted coughing in back of room)

Yeah, that's what I thought. you're not going to edit HD in 720p using FCP on your Powerbook for 8 hours a day. That's what the Powermac is for.

I could see 3 people buying a Powerbook G5:
-The Spec-Whore rich kid who needs his nerd-on fix
-The African Safari backpacking tour guide who absolutely needs to edit 720p in FCP while in the wilderness
-Steve Jobs' golf buddies

Any task that needs a G5 should be done on a desktop. 99.99% of laptop users would have no use for a PB G5. Apple knows that too.
Excellent post. You must have read my mind!

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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2005-05-28, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans
Am I the only one who would prefer a G4 processor to a G5 in my laptop? Let's look at the pros and cons, were Apple to actually do this:

Pros:
Faster

Cons:
Larger, much hotter, much more power-hungry

Even if I was given the option of a G5 in my 'book, even if cost weren't a factor, I would much rather have a G4 processor. They're cooler, more efficient, smaller, and very reliable.

Would a 200Mhz bump in speed really merit above-mentioned shortfalls? No, they could never put in a G5 past 1.5-1.7 Ghz in your 'book, given the constraints of a portable application. The 'books are hot enough as it is without dealing with the heat output of a G5. If they put a G5 in the Powerbook/iBook, there would have to be a larger cooling system, a bigger battery, and a larger space for it. Your 'book would start to look like a peecee laptop, and have the battery life of a battery-powered microwave oven. Due to these factors, your 'book would suffer internally in the long run. A step backwards, in my opinion.

Who here is dissatisfied with the speed of their 'book to the point where you would accept a hotter, fatter, and more power-hungry laptop for a 20-30% increase in speed? Would you really accept the trade-off?

(silence, then muted coughing in back of room)

Yeah, that's what I thought. you're not going to edit HD in 720p using FCP on your Powerbook for 8 hours a day. That's what the Powermac is for.

I could see 3 people buying a Powerbook G5:
-The Spec-Whore rich kid who needs his nerd-on fix
-The African Safari backpacking tour guide who absolutely needs to edit 720p in FCP while in the wilderness
-Steve Jobs' golf buddies

Any task that needs a G5 should be done on a desktop. 99.99% of laptop users would have no use for a PB G5. Apple knows that too.
Er, it's very obvious that, whether you think people "need" it or not, many people want a Powerbook G5, and are waiting until Apple makes one to upgrade. I didn't know it was Apple's job to decide what Mac users need.

Apple's job is to respond to consumer demand, whether you think that demand is justified or not.

Also, I agree with thegelding here. People could just have easily said "Why do you need a G4 in a portable? People who need a G4 should buy a desktop!"

As for the rest of your complaints ("The G5 will never exceed 1.7 GHz in a Powerbook," "It would look like a 'peecee' laptop," "It would have the battery life of a microwave oven!") simply remember that technology marches on. I'm not saying that the G5 will ever be in a Powerbook, actually - some alternative new processor (dual core G4?) is just as likely - but I'm saying that if somebody showed you that post in a few years you'd probably feel rather sheepish.
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Cadilon
 
 
2005-05-28, 20:46

Regardless of the chances of an update, at this point isn't it worth waiting for WWDC in a little more than a week to be sure?
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kinsella217
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2005-05-28, 22:47

OK, my admitted math error aside, the PowerBook is three days away from celebrating the 120 day mark, following it's release. Hopefully, for those of you who stopped reading my post at that point, you can accept my admission of fault and re-read my post.

For those who say that the PB's current 167 mhz bus and 1.67 Ghz processor should be sufficient and that I'm in the wrong for asking for more., I merely say that I'm astonished that you find $2700 worth of value in (what is barely faster) than a one inch thick Mac Mini with a 17" LCD screen.

Whether I need the speed for my useage, I bristle at people telling me what I should be satisfied with, when I'm footing the bill. I'll let you (and Apple) know what I find value in, when I turn my cash over. If it's sufficient for you, that's great. It's insufficient performance and value for my money. When Apple releases a dual core G4, a G4 with a faster bus speed, or a G5, in my descending order of preference in a one inch thick 17" PowerBook, then I'll pony up my $2700. Not before.
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i hope i pressed record
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2005-05-28, 23:53

you know, that "who needs a G5 powerbook?" post would make a lot more sense if the powerbook wasn't marketed toward professionals. who needs a G5 ibook? now that makes sense. apple made the distinction, and now they've got to stick with it.

personally, i don't need a G5 anything right now. i could get by fine with an ibook this fall at college, but i tend to keep my computers for at least 4 years. i need something with a little more staying power than what apple is offering right now.

i get your point though, it's a rational one.. we just don't live in a very rational world
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Dorian Gray
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2005-05-29, 00:33

I generally agree with kinsella217. Apple has absolutely loaded the PowerBooks with features in an attempt to keep the retail price up, but the G4 processor lets the side down badly. The bus speed isn't as important as is generally made out (if the clock multiplier was racked up a good bit more, performance would increase almost linearly with a few notable exceptions: if this wasn't the case Freescale would be cramming at least 1MB and possibly even 2MB of L2 cache on the chip by now to boost performance), but the power-per-watt ratio and max clock speed of the G4 are really not up to the challenge laid down by the Pentium-M. The G4 is competitive with the Pentium-M for some tasks (encoding AAC audio, applying common Photoshop filters, code-breaking(!), i.e. floating-point based AltiVec-optimised code), but it is woefully slow compared to the Pentium-M at others tasks such as 3D rendering. This is a big deal not just for media professionals but also for consumers who are now messing with video and playing 3D games. The sad truth is that although the G4 was a ground-breaking chip when introduced, and at some points during its life the best laptop chip out there, its glory days are gone. Apple needs a new PowerBook chip desperately, and I personally don't see where they're going to get a Pentium-M killer in the near to mid term future.

Of course the other side of the coin is that I would genuinely rather use a slow G4 than a blazing Pentium-M, simply because leaving OS X would be unthinkable for me.
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macdad
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2005-05-29, 04:08

OK, c'mon all you guys out there saying it's unlikely the PowerBook line isn't going to be upgraded anytime soon because it was upgraded in January. We've got WWDC in June and MacWorld in July - I'm willing to place bets that the PowerBook and iBook lines will receive a MAJOR upgrade at one of those 2 shows. The thing you're calling an upgrade in January was just to keep sales going until the real thing this summer. Remember - although the line gets an update an average of every 185 days (5-1/2 months), it's been as short as about 70 days between updates - and we haven't gotten a serious upgrade to the PowerBook line since 2003 (Jan & Sept).

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't convert the 12" model to widescreen format, and also increase the resolution for all the screens. 15" model should support a minimum of 1440x900, the 17" should support 1680x1050. G5's in the PowerBooks can't be ruled out - they need to find a bigger reason to differentiate the PowerBook and iBook lines than simply omitting a couple of features out of the iBooks. And most compelling reason??? The notebooks are the only major line that haven't received an upgrade to carry the new 10.4 Tiger OS since it's release! They aren't just going to start shipping PB's with Tiger and not put some other upgrades in it! That's not Apple's style! Mark my words...
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macdad
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2005-05-29, 04:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadilon
Regardless of the chances of an update, at this point isn't it worth waiting for WWDC in a little more than a week to be sure?
Absolutely. And if it's not WWDC, it's going to be MacWorld in July.
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Electric Monk
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2005-05-29, 04:17

If (and that's really big if) the 7448 is in full scale production we may see an upgrade to both PowerBooks and iBooks.

As for converting the 12" PB to widescreen, it's not likely to happen until more major changes (i.e. the e600 or a G5 or Cell (unlikely in the near future)) and they redesign the motherboards.

Freescale has no reason to cram 1 or 2 MB on the chip because the 7448 is coming out with 1 MB L2 cache and if you remember the L3 cache equipped 745x series couldn't scale as well as the L3 lacking 744x series - Freescale has very limited resources and Apple isn't their only customer. Oh, and the 7448 has a bus speed bump to 200 MHz.

So if 7448's are producing in volume then the PB's may be bumped to 1.8-2.0 GHz, allowing room for the iBooks to be bumped.

Anything more is highly unlikely.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-29, 13:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
Er, it's very obvious that, whether you think people "need" it or not, many people want a Powerbook G5, and are waiting until Apple makes one to upgrade. I didn't know it was Apple's job to decide what Mac users need.

Apple's job is to respond to consumer demand, whether you think that demand is justified or not.

Also, I agree with thegelding here. People could just have easily said "Why do you need a G4 in a portable? People who need a G4 should buy a desktop!"

As for the rest of your complaints ("The G5 will never exceed 1.7 GHz in a Powerbook," "It would look like a 'peecee' laptop," "It would have the battery life of a microwave oven!") simply remember that technology marches on. I'm not saying that the G5 will ever be in a Powerbook, actually - some alternative new processor (dual core G4?) is just as likely - but I'm saying that if somebody showed you that post in a few years you'd probably feel rather sheepish.
Yes... in 2 years, I'll probably eat my shorts. But for now, the G4 satisfies most people's portable needs. What I'm saying is that I don't know (m)any people who'd live with above-mentioned tradeoffs (bulk, heat build-up, power use) for a PB G5. As the technology stands now, a G5 in a powerbook just isn't feasible. Probably soon (WWDC? Not that soon, you impatient fools!) IBM will come up with something faster than the current G4 for a portable environment. Until then, it's just not realistic.

Let's copmare the iMac G5 (1.8Ghz, 17") to the current PB 17". It's not that far of a stretch; the display is the same, the only major difference (besides the processor) is the faster HD. That, and the 17" would be the first to get a G5, since it has the most space to work with, and it's already expensive.

The new iMac has "180W maximum continuous power", according to Apple. That's even with its new Power Stepping feature. Let's conservatively estimate that under normal use, it draws half that. Pretty reasonable, no?

Just so you know, 90 watts is still atrociously unacceptable for a PB. Now let's be even more generous, and say that the slower hard drive knocks off 10 watts. Let's give it even more room, and say that the slower logic board in the PB knocks off another 15. That's still 65 watts during normal use (a very conservative estimate).

The PB 17" currently has a 58 watt-hour battery.

Now you do the math, and yes, folks, a PB G5 would run for 54 minutes on a charge, if it used the current PB's battery. That instantly negates any benefits a G5 would offer in a portable, take-anywhere machine.

Now, let's look at the size issue. The iMac G5 has the same parts that a PB G5 would, minus the bigger HD. And, a PB has a keyboard and trackpad built into the chassis. It's being generous to the PB to say that those 2 issues negate each other... that a keyboard and trackpad take up approximately the size and weight difference between a 2.5" and a 3.5" HD.

So, if you wanted a PB G5, you could roughly estimate that it would be over 2 inches thick, plus all that space under the display in the iMac G5. It would also weigh in at about 18.5 pounds. Worth the trade-off? I don't think so.

Oh, it also needs a battery. Let's say that to be practical, the battery must power the PB G5 for 3 hours. As I said before, the current battery would power the PB for 54 minutes... let's be generous and round it up to an hour. So, you would need 3 of those batteries in the PB G5 to make its battery life acceptable. My 15" TiBook's battery weighs in at 13.5 oz. Let's be generous and say that it's the same weight as the 17" PB's battery. So, your PB G5's battery, which would be 3 times that, would weigh 2.5 pounds.

Without even getting into the extra space that the battery would occupy, your PB G5, with battery, would weigh 21 pounds. Without battery, it would be at least 2 inches thick, and 16.8 inches front-to-back.

Now, who still thinks that Apple would make a PB G5?

I rest my case.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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kinsella217
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2005-05-29, 13:45

I don't think anyone here would expect a desktop G5 970 or 970 FX to go into a PowerBook, ABB, so if we can get past that, I think that a lot of people who rely on a laptop for professional useage do expect professional power in exchange for a laptop at the high end of the price spectrum.

Personally, I do not even demand a G5. I'll happily buy a laptop powered by a G4 variant with a bus speed in excess of 167 mhz. Until such a machine exists, my money will remain in my account, not Apple's.

If it's my assertion that a certain product does not meet my needs, no number of people in a forum setting telling me that I should be satisfied with what exists, will make it so. I will buy a laptop when I believe that my computing needs are met.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-29, 13:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinsella217
[snip] I don't think anyone here would expect a desktop G5 970 or 970 FX to go into a PowerBook [/snip]
Then what's the point of going to all this trouble? It's even more pointless to put a crappy G5 in the PB (you'd gain very little at great cost). If Apple is going to this much effort, they will make it worth their while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinsella217
[snip] I'll happily buy a laptop powered by a G4 variant with a bus speed in excess of 167 mhz [/snip]
That's much more reasonable, and that's probably what Apple will do until something entirely different comes along. An increase in bus speed wouldn't be nearly as difficult as a G5. I wish AN had 4000 more people like you.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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kinsella217
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2005-05-29, 14:07

"Then what's the point of going to all this trouble? It's even more pointless to put a crappy G5 in the PB (you'd gain very little at great cost). If Apple is going to this much effort, they will make it worth their while."

ABB, why do you assume that a new, lower powered G5 would be crappy? The basic design of the G5 (970) is two years old. The 970FX is not brand spanking new, either. While it's obvious that IBM has had some difficulties advancing the platform, I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely that there has been more development on this front than IBM or Apple has been eager to talk about.

"That's much more reasonable, and that's probably what Apple will do until something entirely different comes along. An increase in bus speed wouldn't be nearly as difficult as a G5. I wish AN had 4000 more people like you."

That's very kind of you, ABB. I don't want to run around forums, complaining about my unreasonable needs. It's taken me a very long time to save up for my next laptop purchase. Long hours at work and a fair amount of sacrifice will be represented by the cash I fork over for my next laptop. I want to make certain that what I'm buying is a fair value. I don't believe that the current offering represents that value, compared to other technologies that are available today and other values within the Macintosh line.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-29, 14:18

When I said crappy, I meant that it wouldn't be the latest and greatest G5, and only sort-of-better than a G4. Especially if it was underclocked. Its speed to heat-and-size-and-power-consumption ratio would be impractical. I know how you feel about spending wisely, having saved up for my iBook for 3 years. I hope that I'll have enough saved again by the time it poops out on me.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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allam89
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2005-05-29, 15:24

Yeah, IMO the G5 is technically not very feasible now. My guess is that MAYBE in a year Apple may find a way to approach it. As for dual core G4, wouldn't that make the powerbooks too hot? I mean they already are a bit hot, what would dual core do? And if it's true that a speed bump wouldn't do much good because of the bus bottleneck, then the powerbook has reached a dead end (which means, so does the iBook) until they upgrade the bus, which I heard was not very easy. Is bumping the bus near impossible? Or does it make too much heat and battery consumption?
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kinsella217
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2005-05-29, 15:35

I remain curious why people believe that IBM has been completely unable to improve the G5 970 platform? We know that Apple and IBM are relatively good at keeping their development levels secretive and we know that we haven't seen a new processor in a while, out of the labs. Now, by this, I do not mean to assert that I believe that it is necessarily a guarantee that we'll be seeing a G5 next gen in a laptop at WWDC. Even I believe that's somewhat unlikely. I just do not understand why people think that no development news, which we know is operating policy for Apple, automatically means that there has been no development progress at all.

Incidentally, Allam89, the newer generation G4s from Freescale (odd, that we do have some information on that... which almost leaves one to believe that these processors may not be Macintosh bound) is reported to use significantly less power and produce less heat than the current 7447 models. Many others here have provided incredibly detailed information on power consumption from these processors, and to them, I owe my gratitude.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-29, 15:46

No bout a doubt it, the G5 is an awesome processor, and is still new technology. It's hard to improve on something that good.

I wouldn't be surprised if within a year, Apple abandons IBM's G5 completely and takes up something even better, like the cell. The cell is much more promising, and there's lots of room for R&D.

The G5 is more of a matured technology. It has been thoroughly developed. I hesitate to use the phrase "dead end", but Apple will get much further pushing for something new entirely.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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kinsella217
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2005-05-29, 16:35

The end of the desktop G5 as we knew it, is neigh at hand, it's true. The 970 and the 970 FX are older technologies in the relative scheme of things. With the 970MP and the 970GX on the horizon though, and a new derivative of the Power 5 looming ahead, I'm not sure that this is the time for Apple and IBM to switch to lower performing (remember the megahertz myth... it applies to the cell processor, too) processor.

Furthermore, the Cell processor was designed with a gaming console in mind. IBM has no need to have designed a processor with legs for a gaming platform. Therefore, aren't we assuming quite a bit to believe that the Cell processor has any future?

Last edited by kinsella217 : 2005-05-30 at 00:31.
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nassau
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Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-05-29, 18:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans
...Even if I was given the option of a G5 in my 'book, even if cost weren't a factor, I would much rather have a G4 processor....
it always cracks me up to see the fans so deprived they actually argue against a G5 powerbook.

me, i'm not buying a desktop anytime in the forseeable future, i'm strictly laptops. does this mean i should stay on a G4 forever?

naturally, apple needs to make the G5 powerbook slimmer, cooler etc etc thatn the G4, not thicker and hotter. i'm sure that's hard to accomplish, but that's what the public wants. their job is to "just do it, and do it good".


andele andele!!
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