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Conspiracy Theorists? [Did a plane really hit the Pentagon?]
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 18:01

I just watched this interesting flash/video and it makes you think about things and it's just really interesting to watch.

Did a plane really hit the Pentagon?

What are your thought's about this?

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Ebby
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2004-09-02, 18:20

That's some good speculation there. It's been a long time since I've seen an X-Files episode and this will do nicely.

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Wrao
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2004-09-02, 18:23

It's a well made video. But you can't always trust well made media.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 18:31

What's well made media? Wouldn't every news broadcast be considered "well made media"? And if you click on the "website" icons that pop up, they have all the sources, so it's really well made and backed up. Well made point's also. Make's me quite skeptical about certain things.

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Wrao
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2004-09-02, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by wretched
What's well made media? Wouldn't every news broadcast be considered "well made media"?

now you're getting it
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Moogs
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2004-09-02, 18:47

There are some very good points made in that piece... specifically about the small holes punched through the inner walls, no scarring on the ground, and the smell of explosives afterward. Also, that impact film would've looked a lot different if it was an airliner that made the flash... so the question is, if it was a missile, what kind was it and where did it come from?

There is no air-to-air or air-to-ground missile that an F-15/F-16 (the closest fighters types nearby) can carry, that would collapse and entire section of the Pentagon and/or punch its way through three of its rings. No fucking way. Mavericks couldn't do that, HARMS (which require an outgoing radar signal to home) can't, and large LGBs couldn't do that (nor would they make any noise). Most of the air-to-air missiles would practically "bounce off", so they're out. The Pentagon is a heavily hardened structure....

The only kind of *missile* I can think of that could do this... is a cruise missile. That would also fit the description of a jet fighter at extremely high speeds and low altitude. Now the real question: if that's the case, who launched it? I doubt it is even within the realm of possibility for a foreign force of any kind or making to steal a cruise missile, obtain the proper launch platform, codes, etc. It's just not. So, IF IT WAS a cruise-missile, it was US who fired it, plain and simple. Now I'd like to see some harder evidence on that (like we'd ever see it).

Another possibility [and the bigger probability] is a commuter jet of some kind. But if it was a commuter jet, where TF (!) did Flight 77 go? [Is it possible it could've crashed / landed somewhere and was covered up?] And why did we never hear the stories of the families whose members were on the smaller (or Boeing) jet? In the case of the smaller, possibly it was hijacked with no one on board... very possible. Commuter airport security is pathetic.

Another question: where any human remains found at the Pentagon that were reported on from Flight 77? I don't remember ever hearing anything other than the stories of the people inside the Pentagon who were killed. Nothing about "experts collecting remains from flight 77 and matching DNA from the relatives" or anything like that. I don't recall any stories of the people on board that flight, though the 9-11 report had some cabin quotes (who knows where those came from).

Something smells [a little] fishy here. [I don't want to jump to conclusions but admittedly this is something that no one in the media would ever in a million years question. Where IS the Sheraton / gas station film? I'd like to think the grubby media people would've had their hands on that within 30 minutes of the crash, showing it on TV.... strange no one ever saw them. Also if there *was* a large plane that flew over teh highway at 500+ mph... cars definitely *would've* been tossed like rag dolls. Possibly there were no cars there at the time, but how likely is that?]


...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2004-09-02 at 19:13. Reason: More thoughts
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LoCash
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2004-09-02, 18:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by wretched
What's well made media? Wouldn't every news broadcast be considered "well made media"? And if you click on the "website" icons that pop up, they have all the sources, so it's really well made and backed up. Well made point's also. Make's me quite skeptical about certain things.
Well, I don't know if I would consider Fox "well-made media"
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AirSluf
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2004-09-02, 18:59

XXXXX

Last edited by AirSluf : 2004-11-15 at 23:14.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 19:06

Quote:
The Pentagon is a heavily hardened structure....
True... but in that video it says that that area of the Pentagon was under construction and it was a week away from being completed. So, is it a coincidence that the pentagon was hit in that area?

wow... I'm really starting to think like a conspiracy theorist. All I need now is the high level of paranoia. :: looks behind his shoulders ::

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Moogs
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2004-09-02, 19:16

I don't think it would've been so "weak" that a small missile would punch a hole through three freaking rings. Most missiles carried by fighter aircraft do not even weigh 1000 lbs. Do you know what kind of kinetic energy / the amount of explosives that is required to plow through three rings of the Pentagon? I don't know the precise number but I know the missiles fighters typically carry can't do it.

[The only things that seem physically reasonable to me are a small jet travelling at very high speed, a large jet that somehow doesn't get demolished when impacting the first ring, travelling all the way through to hit other rings... and yet leave few visible signs of a large aircraft, or a cruise missile.]

*shrug* It's possible of course the plane was just totally disintegrated, but I doubt it. There's almost *always* a large portion of the rudder or recognizeable chunk of fuesalge laying around somewhere.

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2004-09-02 at 19:40.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 19:25

Remember the concorde that crashed in France I think? That plane is really fast (it breaks the sound barrier), and when a concorde crashed a few years ago, it also left some debri and fuesalge around. A plane can't just disappear and what's strange is that I remember when the 9/11 attacks occured, they focused more on the towers (obviously), and reports on the attack on the pentagon was scarce, I just remember when it first happened, they reported it, and stated that at least one person was killed or something like that. Would make an interesting Google search.

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LoCash
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2004-09-02, 19:39

The concorde that crashed had just taken off, and therefore it wasn't anywhere close to top speed, much less anywhere near breaking the sound barrier. One would expect large portions of that aircraft to remain in this instance.

I have no idea how fast the plane that hit the pentagon was going. One would think the pilot would have attempted to get it going as fast as possible while simultaneously being able to accurately maintain a proper velocity to strike the objective.

It is with great regret that we say our farewells to Jack, who passed away on May 28th, 2005. Jack, you will be missed by all

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Moogs
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2004-09-02, 19:44

As I look at that one available piece of film again, the scale of the blur does seem much more consistent with a smaller aircraft vs. a larger one. Another theory: the Air Force's psychological profiling didn't catch someone who maybe was a naturalized citizen, and who had bad intentions. Perhaps someone flew a fighter jet (which would have explosives on board) into the Pentagon, and they surely *would* cover that up.

I can't even guess at the kind of panic and distress the general public would put on display if they thought there were even a few people *inside* the military had these kinds of goals, with no one to stop them. IOW, terrorists who had been here for a long time and worked their way in legitimately, with the intention of doing harm to Americans. Unfathomable almost but possible.

Who knows... all I can say is, there is very little about the scene at the Pentagon that smacks of a huge airliner crash, and even less on that tape that smacks of a huge airliner.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 19:56

What interests me is the recordings of the various places around the recording, like that Hotel, it would be interesting to see what they were seeing, one would only hope those recordings would resurface someday.

Quote:
The concorde that crashed had just taken off, and therefore it wasn't anywhere close to top speed, much less anywhere near breaking the sound barrier. One would expect large portions of that aircraft to remain in this instance.
True, but would something breaking the sound barrier disintegrate into nothingness?

That video states how fast and how much the airplane weighed. If a plane crashed into the pentagon, it sure wasn't a big plane, It would've probably been a small airliner. The government seems to be hiding something, I wouldn't mind knowing what it is, and I think I'm not the only one wanting to know... I think O.o

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Moogs
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2004-09-02, 20:04

Well, let's be real: every government hides *lots* of things from its citizens. Sometimes it's a necessary thing, sometimes it is devious. If they are hiding something here, it could be both necessary and devious, strangely enough. I don't trust this particular administration any further than I can throw them - if they can do all the things they've done and say they're "compassionate"... they're capable of serious harm - but it doesn't mean they instigated this either.

Entirely possible it's just something very embarrassing that they got wrong in the early moments and covered it up, rather than say sending a cruise missile to hit the pentagon after a smaller craft hit it (for example).

...into the light of a dark black night.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 20:09

Quote:
Entirely possible it's just something very embarrassing that they got wrong in the early moments and covered it up, rather than say sending a cruise missile to hit the pentagon after a smaller craft hit it (for example).
That make's a good point, but where would the smaller aircraft have gone to? Hm, November is going to be a really interesting month...
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LoCash
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2004-09-02, 20:14

I haven't watched the video yet, but what exactly do they propose happened to the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon? I mean, the people that died on that flight were quite real, so where exactly did that plane go down if not at the Pentagon?

It is with great regret that we say our farewells to Jack, who passed away on May 28th, 2005. Jack, you will be missed by all

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wretched
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2004-09-02, 20:19

Well, that's the thing, the death's reported on the flights came from the planes that hit the WTC's and the one that crashed in Penns. I don't recall any death's from the plane that hit the Pentagon and I'm just about to search for the report on Google.

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Moogs
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2004-09-02, 20:19

That is the hitch. I'm trying to remember if any news reports covered the removal of the plane wreckage and/or bodies from Flight 77. Does anyone recall anything like that / have any old news clips or footage with evidence of the same?

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Quagmire
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2004-09-02, 20:22

I do remember them removing a plane's engine from the collasped E ring. I will try to google it.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 20:29

Site 1
Site 2
Fighter Jet?

I've found two interesting site's, the first one talks about the Pentagon and the second one is from the Smoking Gun and that talks about "Pentagon Says Sept. 11 Interceptors Flew:
TOO FAR, TOO SLOW, TOO LATE "

Still searching...

Added the third site, and in those pictures, it actually resembles a fighter jet. Why do images from camera's hav to be so damn crappy?

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Mass Appeal
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2004-09-02, 20:36

This conspiracy theory is old news given a new face. I remember the same BS but with less fancy graphics being peddled right after 9/11. Link.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 20:43

Well... there goes the conspiracy theory...

Last edited by wretched : 2004-09-02 at 21:12.
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Mass Appeal
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2004-09-02, 21:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by wretched
Hm, I'm still skeptical, it still doesn't make much sense either. In Snopes it states that , that doesn't make sense. How could the plane just hit the ground and the Pentagon and get through the rings? Plane's don't just bounce. Hm, it's tough to know who to believe sometimes.
I think you might need to read that part a second time.
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wretched
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2004-09-02, 22:19

Errr... hence why I deleted that post and replaced it with the current one O.o
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AirSluf
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2004-09-02, 22:49

XXXXX

Last edited by AirSluf : 2004-11-15 at 23:14.
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alcimedes
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2004-09-02, 23:07

now now, play nice.

we like like a little tinfoil hat discussion every once and a while.

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AirSluf
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2004-09-02, 23:12

XXXXX

Last edited by AirSluf : 2004-11-15 at 23:15.
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Akumulator
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2004-09-03, 00:21

Quote:
The fact you don't remember the flight 77 families doesn't mean they weren't publicized, just you forgot them.
Barbara Olsen was on Flight 77 that hit the pentagon. I remember she was flying out to be a guest on Politically Incorrect.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/



This video was being sent around work today and we all just laughed at how rediculous it is and how there was no real point to it.
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wretched
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2004-09-03, 05:21

Woohoo, there goes my fun. Calm down Airsluf, the reason I don't really remember things because it was um... 4 years ago, and 4 years ago I was in my second year of high school and I didn't really pay attention to anything then and I don't even live in the United States. That's why the only thing I remember about 9/11 is the WTC's because that was made into a bigger deal here.

I don't like to believe everything that the media tells me and I like to question things. Sorry my comment's where inane I was just trying to make educated guesses about the video without actually researching anything, that doesn't mean I actually believed everything O.o damn.

EDIT: and some of you just have to lighten up.

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