User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » AppleOutsider »

Russia v Ukraine


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Russia v Ukraine
Page 3 of 5 Previous 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next Thread Tools
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-04-05, 10:07

Yeah, it isn’t just the guzzlers suffering. I drive a smallish Toyota with respectable MPG and I’m feeling this too. Right at $4/gallon here in southeastern Tennessee. Maybe as high as I’ve ever seen it. I remember just three Christmases ago, filling up my Saturn for $1.89/gallon at the little Stop ‘n’ Rob down the road. It’s $3.91 as of yesterday. It was $3.97 2-3 weeks ago so I guess I should be falling to my knees in gratitude…



I’ve never owned/driven anything other than small, gas-efficient Hondas., Saturns and, currently, Toyota. Little two-door sedans/coupes. I wouldn’t own a big gas-guzzling vehicle if I won it in a contest.

“Can I have a nice toaster oven instead? Maybe one of those cool modern vacuum cleaners? I really don’t need a tank, thanks…”.

  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-04-05, 10:44

In California, most stations (excluding places like COSTCO) sell for just under $6 per gallon.

Just after the war started when gas prices were peaking, my gas mileage went down almost 20% for a couple of tankfuls (highway driving from Northern to Southern California and back). I suspect some gas suppliers used more ethanol in the mix. My gas mileage has gradually been returning to normal.

An unrelated note regarding U.S. gas prices versus the world: When I was stationed in Italy (late 1990s), each service member was allotted a ration of gas coupons that could be purchased at a discount to the local gas prices. I think it was also like that in Germany also.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-04-05, 10:47

Increased supply = reduced prices, so …

Option 5: Pump more oil.

The solution is so easy as to make my head spin.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2022-04-05, 11:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
In California, most stations (excluding places like COSTCO) sell for just under $6 per gallon.

Just after the war started when gas prices were peaking, my gas mileage went down almost 20% for a couple of tankfuls (highway driving from Northern to Southern California and back). I suspect some gas suppliers used more ethanol in the mix. My gas mileage has gradually been returning to normal.

An unrelated note regarding U.S. gas prices versus the world: When I was stationed in Italy (late 1990s), each service member was allotted a ration of gas coupons that could be purchased at a discount to the local gas prices. I think it was also like that in Germany also.
Interesting. $3.25 at the place around the corner from me here in CO.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-04-05, 12:52

Price depends on a lot of things.

- Proximity to the pump
- Proximity to the depot
- Proximity to the refinery
- Proximity to the oil fields

Location, location, location

And then there's taxation, which in California is very high, while in Colorado it's very low (as it is here in Idaho, but proximity to the refinery is farther than Colorado). So many factors determine the price of gas, and some of those factors are artificial (such as supply constraints), while others are variable (demand, which is almost always high).

It's a game, and we're all pawns.

I don't fully understand all of the logistics involved, but one thing I do know: The price of gas is being artificially raised independent of demand. It's far more profitable to pump less oil and charge more for it than to pump more and charge less. The people who play these games don't care about the economic consequences to the surfs. They care only about the short-term profits they can rake in while the world trembles in the artificial fear of Russia cutting off supply, which hasn't (and isn't likely) going to happen.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-04-05, 13:04

While California is home to many refineries, it also has its own version of the EPA, which insists on using gas additives. Sometimes the solutions end up being worse than the problem, and MTBE (methyl text-butyl ether), which was used for decades, is now banned. MBTE affects water quality (taste and odor), has various health effects depending on concentration, and tended to degrade rubber hoses in engines, among other things. Residents near state borders often cross the lines to get less expensive gasoline.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-04-05, 13:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
Residents near state borders often cross the lines to get less expensive gasoline.
If it was cost effective, I sure would.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2022-04-05, 13:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I don't have a ton of sympathy for people who bought gas guzzlers and now find themselves spending a hundred bucks per fill-up. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
This is generally the correct take, with one exception.

People have been told over and over that the climate 'emergency' requires exceptional attention, and in short order we expect to be facing any number of related disasters, including but not limited to increasing fires, floods, hurricanes, and other devastating consequences.

Humanity is generally self-protecting. So when you send political messaging like that out, it shouldn't be a surprise when people buy vehicles they think will be capable of protecting their families in disastrous conditions. No-one expecting to be engulfed in an apocalypse is going out and buying a Hyundai Accent. It's no surprise that everyone thinks their neighbours should sacrifice for the planet, whilst doing the exact opposite for themselves and their families.

Unintended consequences indeed.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-05, 14:47

A modern pickup truck can hardly survive use as a work truck for 5-6 years, let alone an apocalypse.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2022-04-05, 18:21

Everybody knows that Rental Cars are the best vehicles for extreme driving.


..
  quote
Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2022-04-06, 03:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Increased supply = reduced prices, so …

Option 5: Pump more oil.

The solution is so easy as to make my head spin.
And yet the companies aren't doing that at all... I guess profit on a falsely scarce resource is more valuable to them...
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2022-04-06, 03:38

Oil is "falsely scarce"?
  quote
Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2022-04-06, 04:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Oil is "falsely scarce"?
At this point, yes. Oil companies within OPEC or not have sufficient oil in the ground and pumps above to cover the current 'crisis'. There's profit to be made though...
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2022-04-06, 04:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky View Post
At this point, yes. Oil companies within OPEC or not have sufficient oil in the ground and pumps above
In the short term, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky View Post
to cover the current 'crisis'.
I don't think there's a need for sarcastic quotes in a war.
  quote
Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2022-04-06, 04:15

I wasn’t referring to the war being the crisis, but the oil prices, which is the proximal subject being discussed.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2022-04-06, 07:40

So latest news in Russian troops did horrible and despicable acts in the places they occupied prior to pulling out of those regions. Bucha being the place that seems to be the worse based on reports I've seen.

I'm putting this in spoiler tags for those who don't want to read more specifics:
Spoiler (click to toggle):
Quote:
“They cut off limbs, slashed their throats, women were raped and killed in front of their children,” Zelensky said of Russian forces. “Their tongues were pulled out only because the aggressor did not hear what they wanted to hear from them.”


I know war is hell, but the worse part of all of this is no single Russian will be held accountable for this. If it were the US we would have an Inspector General (or their team) up the service member's business until they had enough evidence to punish them. They would dress down entire platoons and such to find exactly who did what. Russia, I'm guessing Putin would buy those soldiers a beer.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-04-06, 07:54

Every slaughtered civilian, every raped woman, every fatherless child, every destroyed home, every atrocity, every "ohmigosh, this is just like 1938...", etc., the world allowed to happen. All because one beady-eyed hump decided he needed to act the role. And we let him.

We should be ashamed. We won't be, because that might require action or tough decisions. That's not really a hallmark of 2022 life. Tweeting your Outrage™ and saying hollow, meaningless stuff like "I stand with Ukraine" (for the likes and warm-and-fuzzies), that's a bit more doable, isn't it?

No, I don't know the answer...I'm not a military strategist or politician. But sitting around with our collective thumb buried way up there as innocent people, through no fault/doing of their own, get killed for nearly two months...that sure as fuck isn't any sort of proper approach/solution either. Unbelievable.

"Never again"...just hollow, empty words people knee-jerkingly like to say, with absolutely nothing behind it. Evil must be confronted, dealt with and stopped. When it isn't, really horrible things tend to happen. How in God's name do we not know this by now? How many more examples are needed? I guess it's time I grew up and learn to see all the wonderful shades of grey (thousands, apparently) there are in the world.

  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-06, 08:51

It’s called the harsh reality of the modern world, as a result of MAD. This is a tragedy of our collective making, just like every war in history. Nobody wants to start the kind of war that would come from the west getting directly involved, because that ends far, far worse than what is happening in the Ukraine.

Never again is a wonderful idea idea in theory, but as long as there are people who have different ideas of how the world should be governed, financed, and we cling to our useless nationalist ideas, there will be war. That’s the cold hard facts.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2022-04-06, 09:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky View Post
I wasn’t referring to the war being the crisis, but the oil prices, which is the proximal subject being discussed.
Gotcha. Sorry.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-04-06, 09:03

Then could we just have Putin and an opponent of NATO's choosing get in the ring for a PPV special, and settle this on Saturday night? Or is that just asking too much?
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-06, 09:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Then could we just have Putin and an opponent of NATO's choosing get in the ring for a PPV special, and settle this on Saturday night? Or is that just asking too much?
If only the kings never used the chess pieces in their games. So what if the leaders have a boxing match? Do you want something as pathetic as that determining the fate of millions of people? How is that better? Sure nobody dies in a war, but how many people die after for not wanting to live by the results, or because they think differently? That solves nothing, at least in this war the Ukrainians can fight for what they want, rather than some arbitrary David vs Goliath match.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-04-06, 09:15

Pretty sure I was joking (out of exasperation; but I still bet most would love to see someone beat his ass half to death, just on general principle).

I don't think Putin represents some huge swath of thought. I just don't. I don't think most people think like that, or want the grief he's bringing in their name. Who goes and invades places? Nobody's still wearing helmets with horns and swinging broadswords. He looks like an maniacal idiot, all he's done since February. Whatever "support" he may have is probably no deeper than a mud puddle.

Eliminate him and see what happens. If he's replaced by someone even worse (really?), there are ways to deal with that too. But we know the current guy isn't worth a shit, and isn't acting right. So do we just put up with that? Doesn't seem right either.

That's why I keep hoping Russians themselves put him on ice, so other nations can't be blamed or directly in the mix. If his own countrymen figure out how to deliver a resounding "fuck you", he kinda has to take it (assuming he's still drawing a breath; I would hope he wasn't). So I keep hoping for that headline. That beats the present situation, IMO. Civilians being slaughtered, raped, etc. is nothing to strive for/be okay with.

A year from now, what other countries may join Ukraine on that awful list? Is that what he's going for? Is the world going to stand by and let that happen too? At what point is it enough, and "over the line"? I would've thought it was about seven weeks ago, but I obviously missed that call.

I just hate that one man can do this to the world. I hate bullies and troublemakers, whether it's the schoolyard, workplace or somewhere I've never even been (and may have a bit of trouble finding on a map right away). It's all the same to me.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2022-04-06 at 09:51.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-04-06, 11:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
A year from now, what other countries may join Ukraine on that awful list? Is that what he's going for? Is the world going to stand by and let that happen too? At what point is it enough, and "over the line"? I would've thought it was about seven weeks ago, but I obviously missed that call.

I just hate that one man can do this to the world. I hate bullies and troublemakers, whether it's the schoolyard, workplace or somewhere I've never even been (and may have a bit of trouble finding on a map right away). It's all the same to me.
Putin has no plans of stopping, and so long as he doesn't directly attack a NATO country, the West will likely let him go as far as he wants/can.

In the meantime, avoiding "The Catastrophe" is priority numeral uno. Is there any way short of sanctions to kick Putin's ass that does not also lead to a nuclear world war? I don't think so. If NATO decides to attack — even if nuclear weapons can be avoided — then that drives the entirety of Europe into yet another massively destructive war. While that's going on, China has no reason to leave Taiwan alone, and there goes the "Pacific Theater" as Japan and South Korea find themselves in China's crosshairs, as well as the Philippines.

However, there appears to be one saving grace to the whole thing, and one that should be used if it can be agreed that nuclear weapons will not be used, and that is this: It appears that Russia's oligarchs have been skimming so much off the top that Russia's monster army has been left in disrepair, such that the might of the famed Bear is struggling to conquer a small nation right on it's borders. This gives me hope that Nato could kick Russia's arrogant ass! I'm not so sure that Russia would be a match for NATO, anymore, without the nuclear option. But, then we have to figure out how to keep China out of the melee!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-06, 14:44

Russia’s biggest problem is boots on the ground. The Ukrainian’s have more, and they are highly motivated. The Russian troops are poorly motivated, simple as that. Putin is still has over 60% support, which went up rather than down, because Russians share his fear of the west overall. Putin won’t risk mass conscription, that would likely turn people again him, which is why they mostly conscripted people who lived near the boarder.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-04-06, 15:18

Yeah, it's funny how powerful a tank is when you have infantry support, and just how vulnerable they are without it. Russia is learning the hard way just how badly they need those "boots on the ground", because they're losing unsupported tanks like mad.

Must be frustrating for the tank crews.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-06, 20:50

Most of what Russia is losing is older equipment, T-55, T64, T72. I have not seen any dead T-90s, most of which are with experienced units in the eastern part of Ukraine. I’d hazard I guess that most of the lost and wayward units are newer inexperienced units wit old, albeit upgraded, hardware.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-04-06, 21:29

I've been checking this site which has been keeping track of the equipment lost on both sides.

Interesting to see the HMMV listed on the Ukrainian side. Didn't know that Ukraine had any of those.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2022-04-06, 21:32

Good info, thanks for the link.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-04-07, 07:21

There are also a few Twitter accounts that have been tracking this stuff, but the one that has been the most active has been Ukraine Weapons Tracker
  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-04-09, 01:53

In case anyone is interested, the congressperson posted the results of her survey about what relief the federal government should provide for the increased gasoline prices:

"I sent a survey to constituents requesting feedback on how Congress should address increased gas prices. The survey was completed by 10,097 participants and the results are below:

3,435 voted to suspend the 18.4 cent per gallon federal gas tax

2,520 voted for ‘other’

2,165 voted in favor of rebates to consumers to offset higher gas prices

1,977 voted for no action"

"This week the Energy and Commerce Committee held a hearing on soaring gas prices with the CEOs of six large oil companies as witnesses: bp America, Chevron, ExxonMobil, Shell USA, Devon Energy, and Pioneer Natural Resources. The average price in California is $5.84 per gallon. As we pay record prices at the pump, oil companies are earning record profits. In fact, the six companies at the hearing earned more than $76 billion in profits last year.

The industry has made clear that their priority is to protect their shareholders, and the seven largest oil companies, including those who testified, announced $41 billion in stock buybacks this year.

I asked the CEOs if Congress were to suspend the gas tax, would they guarantee that the savings would be passed on to consumers, or whether oil companies would pocket the savings. The CEOs gave no assurances that they would pass the savings on to their customers. "
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 3 of 5 Previous 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meet the New Russia, Same as the Old Russia... Moogs AppleOutsider 332 2008-08-27 23:39
Russia, China start war games rasmits AppleOutsider 30 2007-08-18 10:30
Getting Hammered: Russia-Style! Moogs AppleOutsider 4 2007-06-16 11:53


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2022, AppleNova