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Capella Wasn't Here Mac Studio Thread


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Capella Wasn't Here Mac Studio Thread
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-03-08, 17:29



If I gotta pick up the slack, then I gotta do it my way.

New Mac Studio and Studio Display combined thread.

Mac Studio starts at $1999; Studio Display starts at $1599.

There.

Discuss at will.

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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2022-03-09, 00:53

I think the base Mac Studio w/ M1 Max should’ve been $1.7k or $1.8k, and the base Mac Studio w/ M1 Ultra should’ve been $3k. Otherwise, I think they’re great! Hopefully the pricing is a result of crappy yields and is something they can adjust later.

I think I’m gonna stick with my original “wait for the M2-based version” plan, but it is tempting.

WRT the Studio Display, I think for $1.6k, I’d want a bigger screen, HDR support, 120 Hz support (I didn’t see its refresh rate mentioned anywhere so I’m assuming it’s 60 Hz), or some combination, but hopefully it’ll push more competition in that space.

Oh, and it’s incredibly dumb that you have to chose between the regular stand and a VESA mount at the time of purchase. Come on, Apple, it’s not hard to design your way to four empty screw holes in the back.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2022-03-09, 08:22

I suspect the price could have been lower, but with the price of aluminum continuing to go up, Apple likely wanted to build in a bigger buffer on margins.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-09, 09:07

Of course they’re not.

A high-end, $1,599 display that you have to know/decide, at the time of purchase, how you forever want it held/supported. Change your mind - or your situation changes - eight months later? Tough shit, pal…sell it and fork over another $1,599.

In a sane world (if I ran Apple), a) the adjustable display is stock, and b) the VESA mount holes are present in the back, for maximum flexibility/down-the-road options.

I’m guessing, in about 4-7 years, they’ll get around to doing this, and spend a solid 6-8 minutes touting their “innovative, user-first” approach after they’ve milked the current scenario for all they can.

I can only believe that if this sort of thinking had been present in 2002, the iMac G4 would’ve come on a non-adjustable pole and, after paying $1,799 for the iMac, you’d be expected to pay another $179-239 for that fully-adjustable chrome arm. No way today’s Apple would’ve included that arm out of the box.

If you think this isn’t coming to some future iMac release in the next 1-3 years, you’re just not paying attention. It won’t be so bad if, like the new Studio Display, they at least include the basic one. But, at some point, they won’t. And they’ll charge at least $59 for that.

We will pay extra for iMac and display stands within five years. That cat/toothpaste is now out of the bag/tube, making profit centers from things that simply once came in the box, built into the product.

This is pure bean counter-driven initiatives. No other reason. I’m all for profits and so forth; just don’t be a complete dick about it. There is that point where you’re actively saying “suck it” to the customer.

The comments are spot-in, and pretty funny.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2022-03-09, 09:40

That doesn't surprise me too much – 24" iMac is the same way. I agree that it's ridiculous. At least offer an (expensive ) aftermarket option like they did with the previous iMacs.

So it goes.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-03-09, 09:41

I’m admittedly out of date in my knowledge of HDR specs and reference colour spaces, but I think I have to see a display for myself before deciding what it can do. Manufacturers tend to fudge the spec sheet when it comes to the true dynamic range of a display. At least for photo editing the problem usually is not being able to dim the screen enough…
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-09, 09:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
That doesn't surprise me too much – 24" iMac is the same way. I agree that it's ridiculous. At least offer an (expensive ) aftermarket option like they did with the previous iMacs.
As long as, as with the current iMac and the new Studio Display, something is included/attached, out of the box, it'll be okay. My (genuine) concern is, at some point, they're gonna be like "guys, we can guarantee at least a $60 upgrade per iMac/Studio Display if we leave even the basic, tilt-only stand off these things entirely! If these people can drop $1,299+ on the new M3 iMac, they can certainly spend $59 on a basic, do-nothing stand with 2-3 degrees of tilt."

"Great idea!" *raucous conference room applause/high-fiving*



I hope they don't, but I know they will.

I figure the 2026-ish iMac comes with...an iMac. No stand, no keyboard/mouse, no power brick or power cable and no documentation or stickers. All "sold separately".





Yikes...maybe I shouldn't say that out loud...
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2022-03-09, 10:25

If I were to buy a display like this I would get VESA only. I mean, I have only one monitor in my house that is on its original stand on the desktop. Normally they are all connected to a VESA stand of some sort.

I'm guessing there is no greater reason for "integrating the mount" into the back of the monitor because they didn't want to account for the extra screw holes.

I'm still stuck on how Mac Studio and Display are modular. There is nothing modular about this at all. Nothing is interchangeable with the Mac studio and nothing else in the Display. Am I missing something?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-03-09, 10:56

I think they're leaning on the interconnectivity of their Thunderbolt/USB-C implementation to define their notion of modularity.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-09, 10:59

Less than 24 hours after the event, I know two people who've ordered the Mac Studio (not the display...at least not yet), but they both got the base $1,999 model, replacing older, ~2015 towers. I think they're looking at mid-April deliveries, at least one of them told me.

That's two more than anyone I know who've bought a Mac Pro in two-plus years.

I think that story will play out gazillions of times in the weeks/months to come. They addressed/filled that gap between the not-quite-enough Mac mini and the overkill-for-most-everyone Mac Pro, and a lot of people on aging Intel towers and tricked-out-as-much-as-possible Mac minis are probably very happy.

You get a lot of Mac for $1,999 (and even more so if you want to do some upgrades), especially if you've already got a display you like and you just need the Mac itself...which is the whole point of the "headless" thing. No way there still isn't a strong market for this mid-range, affordable/capable model.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2022-03-09 at 11:09.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-03-09, 11:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I think they're leaning on the interconnectivity of their Thunderbolt/USB-C implementation to define their notion of modularity.
^ This.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-09, 11:26

Of course not, Part 2



Case, rested.

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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-03-09, 11:41

That polishing cloth thing is apparently specifically designed to deal with the nano-texture thing, which can be damaged by regular 'ol po-boy cloths.

Or something.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2022-03-09, 12:32

Since we're on this train... the new Magic Mouse/Keyboard/Trackpad 'upgrade' to black apparently warrants a $20-$30 premium per item. It irks me so.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-03-09, 12:51

Yeah, the "black tax" is back (for those of you who remember the black MacBook that was $200 more than its white brother, and the more recent space gray Magic Keyboard, Mouse and Trackpad, all of which were $20 more than their white buddies).

Being black is expensive. It's racism!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-03-09, 12:57

Maybe they’ll discount them come February. Eeek. I kind of like that Apple’s leaned into white peripherals and tried different colorways for iPads iPhones and iMacs. The white has been copied a lot, and I think home electronics designs are better for it as a result of aesthetics primarily driven by Apple. I like white speakers for wall mounting and white TV remotes are easier to find. Same with non-backlit keyboards, much easier to see by screen-light though mine is looking really grungy after 9 years of snacks and take-out debris having accumulated on it.

Last edited by Matsu : 2022-03-09 at 13:21.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2022-03-09, 14:19

So every PC since Serial and Parallel ports was built is modular? Some times I really hate marketing spin.
Modular: Designed with standardized units or dimensions, as for easy assembly and repair or flexible arrangement and use.

Hmmmm.....

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-03-09, 16:08

It kinda fits their historical take on modularity. The interconnects are the standardization they care about, they have pioneered and/or launched a number of them historically.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-10, 10:02

Stock, as-is Mac Studio + Studio Display: $3,598

Maxed-out, BTO'd-to-the-rafters Mac Studio + Studio Display: $10,298

Somewhere in that $6,700 span, and including the two extremes, is a perfect Mac for the intended customer.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2022-03-11, 15:52

It's funny that Apple reintroduced an "affordable" first party monitor by tying it to the Mac Studio. It really is tied to the Mac Studio: basically every press shot of the thing shows it looming over that adorable lil' chonker. It's literally right there in the name: Studio Display.

I say it's funny because it's a foregone conclusion that the Mac Studio will be near the bottom of the Mac sales numbers. Laptops are more popular than desktops and cheap Macs are more popular than expensive Macs. All this consternation about it being a bad iMac replacement is strange. The Studio Display is going to find a home connected to far more MacBook Pros than Mac Studios.

But, OK, fine, it still is technically an iMac replacement. Last week the iMac 5K was the only way Apple sold you a 5K screen, today that's the Studio Display. A lot of people seem Real Mad™ about this. This actually is partially on Apple: the way they are positioning the Studio Pair, it looks like Apple replaced $1,800 setup with a $3,600 setup. They literally doubled the price for the ""same"" configuration. If I bought Mac desktops I'd be mad too.

Well, until I looked at the specs and did the math. The baseline 27" iMac was a low-end i5 with a low-end Radeon and a paltry 8 GB RAM/256 GB RAM. It was not a high end desktop. In fact, it was a remarkably low-end collection of x86-64 computer bits attached to a very expensive screen. The 5K LCD panel as a repair part costs more than the entire Intel computer in the baseline iMac. In retrospect, it was very odd that anyone would buy such an expensive screen coupled to such a low-end computer. The screen would last for years, a decade or more if cared for. The computer was arguably already outdated for any serious computing workload.

Yet thousands of people apparently did this, and those people are now upset that Apple has implicitly exposed what strange state of affairs this was. The piece of this that Apple has left unsaid is that the replacement for the $1,800 27" iMac is a $700 Mac mini paired with a $1,600 Studio Display, clocking in at $2,300. So, sure, you are now paying $500 more for the "entry level" config. In exchange, you're no longer committed to upgrading your computer and your monitor together. You'll make that $500 back—and $1,100 more—the first time you upgrade that Mac while keeping the Studio Display.

"But I didn't buy the entry-level iMac, nobody did. Everyone knows you need to bump that to 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB SSD for anything substantial." Ok, well the $500 gap is consistent across the range of configurations. A decked out M1 mini is 16 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD. That will run you $1,700, so you're at $3,300 with Studio Display. The equivalent 27" iMac? You guessed it, $2,800. The gap is consistently $500, a third of what you'll save when you upgrade the Mac and keep the monitor.

"Sure, but I wanted a 27" iMac with an M1 Pro and 32 GB of RAM." Ok, and what exactly did you think this decidedly high-end and theoretical 27" iMac was going to cost? The 10-core i9/5700 XT/32 GB RAM/512 GB SSD 27" iMac cost... $3,800. $200 more than a base Mac Studio and a Studio Display. So, good news: the machine you wanted costs less than it would have with high-end Intel hardware.

Furthermore: what exactly are you doing where you wanted an M1 Pro and 32 GB of RAM that is causing you consternation over a couple hundred bucks? If you are using this for business, surely this is just the cost of doing business, right? If this is your personal machine and you're not using it for any particularly compute intensive tasks, what the heck were you going to do with that much computer? Is it possible that years of buying expensive big screen iMacs trained you to overbuy your Macs because you had internalized that computer upgrades carried a $1,000 integrated monitor tax, even when the monitor already on your desk was fine?

The iMac is the Mac that saved the Mac and it's persisted as the crown jewel of their desktop lineup for nearly 25 years. More remarkably, it persisted even as Apple fumbled two out of three subsequent attempts to keep the Mac relevant on the desktop. The Cube was a dud. The trash can Mac Pro was a dud. But the iMac? The iMac was always loved. At the height of the butterfly keyboard era when the Mac Pro was a joke, the Mac mini was allowed to languish and the iMac got a slick space gray Pro variant, for just a minute it seemed like the iMac might be it.

I get it's surprising that Apple has so suddenly relegated the iMac to a pastel-colored entry-level tier when just a few years ago it seemed like they wanted the form factor to span the entire performance spectrum, but as with almost every other decision made about the Mac during the butterfly keyboard era, going all-in on the iMac as the singular desktop Mac would have been a huge mistake. The iMac never had any business being a "pro" machine. It got forced into that use case because Apple was inept at making a real pro desktop. Different pros need different things, and attaching the same 5K monitor to every viable "pro" Mac desktop regardless of what the pro buying it needed was silly. Good riddance.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2022-03-11 at 22:24.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-11, 16:00

That is a good post...truth and knowledge. I liked it so much I had to read it twice.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2022-03-11, 16:06

Yeah it's been a minute since I slammed something out for AN. Feels good man, thanks! I love that the Mac is Back.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2022-03-11, 16:35

Yeah, really good post, Kraetos. Glad you're still lurking.

Until the iMac Pro, the iMac was just a basic machine with some decent upgrades and two screen sizes. For years, though, the iMac was just the iMac. You know, back when you could buy a "Pro" tower for $2000? At the tail-end of the MacPro right before the trash can, you could get a pro machine for $2500 that was super fast for its time — along with a $1500 display that's the best in the industry — and iMacs were a fair bit cheaper and covered all the other bases, and many of the pro bases, too. Then, the trashcan era came along and pro machines were beginning over $3000 while the iMac could be configured to over $10,000, and then suddenly the $6000 pro tower made us all .

It was a loss of focus.

The current iMac is right where the original iMac lived. The $1299 "for everyone else" computer, and the "Pro" machines finally start at $2000, again, accompanied by a $1500 display that's the best in the industry.

It's where it ought to be.

Finally!

At this point I don't want to see a "high-end" iMac. I like things the way they are.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-03-11, 16:53

Yeah, things are looking good. If they'll just clean up/straighten out the non-Pro notebook situation a little, the lineup is pretty solid and easy to navigate/plan purchases.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2022-03-11, 16:58

Yeah, exactly. Your comment about focus raises an interesting question: what's Apple going to do about the Mac Pro? Except for the 13" MacBook Pro which just cannot be long for this world, every Apple silicon Mac is positioned remarkably clearly. So what focus is going to distinguish the Mac Pro from the Mac Studio?

Honestly, the only reason the Mac Studio isn't called the Mac Pro is because people would (rightly) freak out if it appeared Apple was making the same mistake they made with the cube and the trash can, again. But for all intents and purposes the Mac Studio is the Apple silicon Mac Pro. Most of what you'd want an MPX module for is on an Apple silicon SoC, and without MPX the current Mac Pro is just an outlandishly large Mac.

I think the Mac Pro that drops at WWDC is going to be something else entirely. It's suspicious that the Mac Studio seems almost intentionally un-rackable: at 3.7" x 7.7" x 7.7" it's right between 2U and 3U vertically and 4U and 5U horizontally.

That can't be an oversight. They don't want us to rack the Studio even though everyone racks the Mac mini, because the Mac Pro is going to be a datacenter-grade Mac. Apple silicon is just so far ahead of anything Intel and AMD are cranking out on performance-per-watt, and you know what datacenters just can't get enough of? Performance-per-watt.

The market is there for the taking if Apple decides they want it.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2022-03-11 at 22:11.
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chucker
 
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2022-03-11, 17:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
I love that the Mac is Back.
Right? Ternus really doing a good job there.

(Now, the software side, I’m not as happy about. Yet.)
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2022-03-11, 19:02

Now we just need a higher-end Mac mini and there will be something for everyone – Mac mini gets the Mx and MxPro, Mac Studio gets the MxMax and MxUltra. Every price-point gets its machine and it all makes sense again.

So it goes.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2022-03-11, 22:03

Bingo. The lack of a M1 Pro Mac Studio is super conspicuous, and the volume of the mini has room to spare for the cooling an MxPro requires. Seems like a given that the redesigned M2 Mini will have an M2 Pro 32 GB option.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-03-11, 22:05

The Studio Display will obviously far outsell the Mac Studio and I am sure that was the way Apple thought it would work. Selling a $2k monitor to everyone who has notebooks that are at least $2k? Sounds like a winning formula all day.

I'm going to buy one as soon as I can get settled into a new place. Not sure if it's going to become a second monitor to my orange iMac or whether that iMac goes to a different part of the house and I pair the Studio Display with a MBP/MBA.

I would love to actually be able to justify the Mac Studio, but that is so overkill for my needs. I would love a specced up Mac mini as a home server, but am going to wait for an update on that one.

I absolutely love all of the hardware that has been coming from Apple lately. It's like they finally heard what people were requesting and actually made it. Who would have thought that would be a winning strategy?

(PS: Nice to see you back here Kraetos. Always like when someone comes back years after their last post. )
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2022-03-11, 22:43

Same. I bought one with the pivot stand as soon as the event ended to replace the cheap 4Ks currently connected to my M1 Pro 14" MBP. Been waiting years for this thing, because I just didn't want to roll the dice on the Ultrafine 5K with all the horror stories you hear about shoddy build quality and Wifi interference.

I never did stop reading, and I posted once every couple years, but honestly the main reason I stopped posting is because I kinda lost interest in the Mac itself so I didn't have much to say. Phones matured and got boring, the iPad didn't really live up to it's potential as the "next big thing," and it seemed like Apple was intentionally trying to ruin the Mac. Trash can, butterfly keyboard, touch bar, MacBook One, no retina Air for years, three competing app frameworks... what a mess. In 2017 I very nearly sold my MacBook Pro and bought a Razer Blade because the Mac seemed destined to wither on the vine. Honestly I probably would have done that had AppleCare not replaced my 2012 MBP with a 2017 Touch Bar MBP.

I got that Mac for free and I hated it. I sold it and bought an M1 Air the day M1 was announced, and as soon as I powered on that M1 Air, I was in love again.

Like I said, the Mac is back. It would be nice if they could get their act together on macOS, but even in the middle of its current identity crisis, it's still better than Windows.

[EDIT]

lol, check out one of the last posts I made back in 2019:


Quote:
This makes the gap between the mini and the Pro even more glaring, too. I realize this refrain has been repeated for basically 20 years now, but a minitower Mac would just be sublime. The non-Pro iMac specs in a tower with a price tag ranging from $1,000 to $4,000 could certainly find a market.

Never gonna happen, though. 😕

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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