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Capella Wasn't Here Mac Studio Thread
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chucker
 
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2022-03-12, 03:32

Yeah, even on Monday, I was convinced this was a market Apple wasn’t interested in any more.
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Matsu
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2022-03-12, 10:30

Some random thoughts...

I thought we may still see an upper end iMac. Maybe... maybe with a bigger screen size... If one takes a Studio Display and jams a Macbook Pro into it, doesn't that sort of come out inline with what Apple had been charging for 27" iMac configs anyway? Possibly cheaper.

Then I see from Apple's refurb store that Intel mac's have become quite costly in the high performance variants of i7 and i9 plus solid state configs... It's a long way from when I paid $2,339 CAD for a loaded 2013 iMac (Ok refurbed, but still it had everything maxed except SSD, it's still running the 3TB fusion drive). Those machiens are easily $6,000USD now... I honestly haven't looked in ages and had no idea they'd become so expensive.

I don't see an iMac being that anymore. Though people like a big display, the new 24" price structure seems much more rational. Still room for a 27" version for $500 more? I think definitely maybe if only because over the years the AIO format has gained a certain following, and, when it wants to, Apple can find ways to position a product to make it look like you're getting more for your money relative to other offerings. I was happy with it, still am, but I'm agnostic about an AIO vs something like a mini+displays... At the time it was a pretty cost effective way to get into a reliable dual 2.5K display set-up.

Speaking of displays? What's happened to 5K displays? Most offerings are 4K, which is fine. Hell, my eyes aren't discriminating 2.5K pixels (2560x1440) at a comfortable viewing distance, but having viewed a lot of retina displays, it still adds a useful level of sharpness to photo presentation, even for these eyes...

This Studio display comes with a useful set of reference modes:

Apple Display (P3-600 nits)
HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)
NTSC Video (BT.601 SMPTE-C)
PAL and SECAM Video (BT.601 EBU)
Digital Cinema (P3-DCI)
Digital Cinema (P3-D65)
Design and Print (P3-D50)
Photography (P3-D65)
Internet and Web (sRGB)

I don't see AdobeRGB, but based on other DCI-P3 displays, it's probably about 85% or so of AdobeRGB. I'm curious to see it tested. Looks like decent value.

Edit: even though all else being equal, I’d tend to go for a larger display, it maybe wouldn’t be too offside for them to do a 4.5K 24” version at $799. Something for people with smaller desks/spaces, or slightly lower end requirements.

Last edited by Matsu : 2022-03-13 at 10:18.
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Frank777
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2022-03-14, 12:31

Leaving out AdobeRGB seems weird.

-----

I also don't understand why the higher-end Mini hasn't been released. There's clearly an open space in the lineup for it - pricing-wise and chip-wise.

Shoving a M1 Pro chip in the current enclosure wouldn't seem to take any serious engineering.

I assume the Mac Pro is the showstopper for WWDC. It'd be weird to have it share the limelight with the high-end Mini.
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Matsu
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2022-03-14, 13:24

I think it might have something to do with the spectrum of light emitted by the backlighting. Essentially a display filters the backlight, but it can't produce spectrum that isn't there in the first place. My knowledge of display tech and color space is foggy at best, so please refer to sources more reliable than yours truly, but when you look at the gamut of AdobeRGB and DCI-P3, you can see the color space for each is larger than sRGB, but Adobe has more cyan-yellow while the DCI color scape has more magenta-yellow. Adobe should be able to represent deeper saturation in the blue green hues while DCI should be able to produce deeper orange-red hues. Each color space produces a little more than 70% of Rec2020, albeit differently. I'm not aware of any displays that can show the entire rec2020. My guess is that manufacturers spec backlighting with spectrum that either skews a bit more blue-green or red-yellow depending on the spec they're trying to meet, and while there's a lot of overlap in what they can reproduce, they often don't spec a light than can cover 100% of both. Expensive Eizo and NEC stuff that comes close to high 90% percent for both tends to cost quite a bit and may be less ideal for non print focused applications which focus on dynamic range and sustained/peak brightness rather than total gamut, uniformity and brightness control...

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psmith2.0
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2022-03-14, 13:30

While WWDC will be the two-year mark from their "we're transitioning in two years" statement at WWDC 2020, I'm inclined to give them until November 2022 since that's the two-year mark from that first batch of M1 products they released. They'll probably use that as their backup/caveat..."we said 'two years'...we never said when that clock started. In our mind, it started in November 2020."



So if things don't pan out as hoped/expected at WWDC, keep the above in mind. But it would be nice to see more AS Macs unveiled/released, sure enough. Last week was kinda out of nowhere, that whole Studio thing...
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chucker
 
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2022-03-14, 14:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I also don't understand why the higher-end Mini hasn't been released. There's clearly an open space in the lineup for it - pricing-wise and chip-wise.

Shoving a M1 Pro chip in the current enclosure wouldn't seem to take any serious engineering.
Maybe they've been working on a new Mac mini enclosure which is a better fit for the M2 and M2 Pro (maybe they're even ditching the M2 non-Pro altogether for the mini), and they don't want to bother backporting any of that.
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PB PM
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2022-03-14, 14:39

The last set of rumors pointed to the current mini case staying though 2023.
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Frank777
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2022-03-14, 15:00

The Mac Studio has the same footprint as the Mini, which gives accessory-makers a common form factor on which to standardize their desktop upgrades.

Changing the Mini's form factor now is the stupidest thing they could do. Which means they are probably considering it.
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chucker
 
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2022-03-14, 15:04

I wouldn't put it past them.

But… I'm also a bit surprised they didn't make the Mac Studio's design… the least bit nicer.
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Matsu
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2022-03-15, 10:33

We do have a funny tendency to anthropomorphize objects, macs in particular, iMac chins, Studio foreheads, etc... It's an inoffensive aluminium box, I'm not bothered by it. I could be persuaded that they should have tried a little harder to incorporate up-to-date built-in card readers: a hybrid SD UHS-3/CF Express Type A and a CF express Type B. They're starting to appear on most hybrid stills/video cameras capable of 4k - 8k capture, would be convenient if not quite as as aesthetically pleasing as Apple's current nicely radiused single SDXC slot...

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turtle
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2022-03-15, 10:45

Ventilation would be huge for the Studio compared to the mini though. So many inlets at the base that they need to ensure they don't restrict it.

What I would really like is a mount to be able to hide it under my desk. That would be awesome.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2022-03-15, 10:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Ventilation would be huge for the Studio compared to the mini though. So many inlets at the base that they need to ensure they don't restrict it.
A concern we have here in the shop is the "vacuum" nature the little buggers will most certainly demonstrate. Apple's sucking-from-the-desk ventilation systems tend to collect a lot of cat hair and human skin, and I can only guess the Studio is going to vacuum up a lot of dirt and deposit it in the fan blades, heatsink grilles, and other whathaveyou.

Gonna be a mess to clean them out, methinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
What I would really like is a mount to be able to hide it under my desk. That would be awesome.
Those will come from 3rd parties, and probably sooner than Studios start arriving in the mail.

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Last edited by kscherer : 2022-03-15 at 12:32.
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Matsu
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2022-03-15, 12:23

Maybe it's time to start designing these with a removable cloth grill over the intake side? Make 'em washable, or replaceable in different colours?
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709
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2022-03-15, 12:30

And maybe a booster too. A little stool it can sit above the desk to help the air intake.
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turtle
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2022-03-15, 13:01

This is starting to sound like a PC now.

Really, I don't want to see my PC/Mac. I haven't for a long time. Just the peripherals that I need to use regularly and the monitors. That is all I need.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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psmith2.0
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2022-03-15, 14:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Maybe it's time to start designing these with a removable cloth grill over the intake side? Make 'em washable, or replaceable in different colours?
Any guesses on the nutball pricing? It is Apple, after all. You know it won't be sane or reasonable, for what it is. It would almost - almost - be worth Ive returning just so we can hear him wax poetic about them.
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kscherer
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2022-03-15, 14:18

So, the optional cloth grill cover is …

iDust

Impossibly thin, radically designed, ultra-static-y!

Just $99
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PB PM
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2022-03-15, 14:36

Sound like the iLap notebook stand that was for sale when I got the first gen 13” MBP in 2009. The cheap plastic $20 stand we had for our old iBook was better than the $80 aluminum piece of junk.
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hmurchison
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2022-03-15, 15:12

Finally a Mac worth buying new.

It's been a while. I've been waiting for a nice boxy Mac like my old beloved Cubes minus the power supply and guts.

Studio Display is beautiful but I can't stomach 1600 smackers for a 27" Display. Now a 42" OLED just might work.

omgwtfbbq
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Frank777
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2022-03-15, 18:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I could be persuaded that they should have tried a little harder to incorporate up-to-date built-in card readers: a hybrid SD UHS-3/CF Express Type A and a CF express Type B. They're starting to appear on most hybrid stills/video cameras capable of 4k - 8k capture, would be convenient if not quite as as aesthetically pleasing as Apple's current nicely radiused single SDXC slot...
I'm not up-to-date on the latest video cameras. On which models can I see one of these?
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Capella
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2022-03-15, 19:18

I just want to cheer and appreciate the title of this thread, I've felt flattered all week :P

My old job would love the studios for powering some doctor workstations.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
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Matsu
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2022-03-15, 20:58

I’m looking more at still/video hybrids since I’m mainly interested in stills. Nikon’s have had XQD/CF-express type B since the D850/D4 vintage DSLRs. All but their most entry level Z cameras feature at least one CF-express type B. Likewise Canon’s newest R cameras (R5 variants and R3) feature at least one CFexpress and Sony has started using a hybrid CF-express type A or SD slot that can accept either card in one slot, on A1 and A7iv. Many models require the CF-express to achieve the highest internal video data rates. There’s a range of cameras that take 4-6-8K vids and 24-50MP stills now rely on faster internal storage.
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kscherer
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2022-03-15, 22:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capella View Post
I just want to cheer and appreciate the title of this thread, I've felt flattered all week :P.
Hey, if you're not gonna do your job, then I have to do it.

And I will do it wrong!
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turtle
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2022-03-16, 07:26

Seems a very fortunate customer got a Studio from Apple a bit early. They sent in pictures to some French site that got reposted via Mac World. It still doesn't look great in my eyes, but less hideous. Maybe it is starting to grow on me, like fungus.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2022-03-16, 07:54

It's not the ugliest Mac of all time, but it just seems very low-effort. "We're gonna triple the height of the Mac mini and add some more ventilation on the back". (I also like the black rounded rect for the Mac mini's ports, whereas the Mac Studio is just… aluminum, then more aluminum, and then some more).
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709
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2022-03-16, 08:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post
... It's been a while.
hmurchison! Glad to see you're still lurking.
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PB PM
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2022-03-16, 09:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I’m looking more at still/video hybrids since I’m mainly interested in stills. Nikon’s have had XQD/CF-express type B since the D850/D4 vintage DSLRs. All but their most entry level Z cameras feature at least one CF-express type B. Likewise Canon’s newest R cameras (R5 variants and R3) feature at least one CFexpress and Sony has started using a hybrid CF-express type A or SD slot that can accept either card in one slot, on A1 and A7iv. Many models require the CF-express to achieve the highest internal video data rates. There’s a range of cameras that take 4-6-8K vids and 24-50MP stills now rely on faster internal storage.
I’ve always found external card readers to be much faster than Apple’s built in units, so I wouldn’t loose any sleep over what they do or don’t include in terms of slots for card readers.
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Matsu
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2022-03-16, 10:42

You're probably right, but it is a premium product, and it's probably a question of a few pennies for the right connectors, given the robust I/O already on board.

I have found myself window shopping a bit recently. I have a little home studio, which I can make a little bigger, and when I resume my daily travels into the downtown core, I plan to resume my habit for street photography, but only because it makes me happy and calm. I can pay the bills in other ways, and plan to pursue only personal projects that satisfy me.

I have been considering outfitting my home studio with an upgrade from dual 2.5K 27" displays. Dual 5K from Apple is a pricey way to go about it, but not bad value actually. Or one Apple, and one 3rd party, or perhaps two 3rd party 4K displays, and a bit larger, say 30-32". I'm curious who out there is planning a new mac plus 3rd party display/s? And, what those are?

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psmith2.0
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2022-03-17, 09:20

Apparently that new $1,599 27" Studio Display is getting some less-than reviews.

Yikes.

Also, the power cable is non-removable.



Nice one, Apple.

Why didn't they just do what they did for the 24" iMac, with the little magnetic thing? What other monitors at this kind of price have the power cable permanently connected?

And...Apple says improvement coming to the new monitor's webcam after "several poor reviews".

Well bless their hearts. It's almost as though they've never made a monitor before.

Or, worse, they're simply trolling folks at this point.

"Fine, we'll make something for less than $5,000. But we're going to do so many stupid little things with it that you might be sorry you asked."

It's obvious the beancounters are getting final say on everything these days. It's the only explanation for some of this stuff.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2022-03-17 at 09:49.
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Matsu
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2022-03-17, 09:50

This is curious, I wonder how the reviewers have set up? A great many reference photo displays max out at 300-350 nits, and are typically set to 1/3 to 1/2 brightness for any work that will end up on paper. So, either Apple is inflating the spec, or... reviewer is trying to watch max brightness in a dark environment and complaining about black levels. My guess is Apple is confusing reviewers (pro and non-pro alike) because of a dissonance between the screen and the wrapper. It could be a pro spec screen if it is color accurate (minimal standard deviations), is true 10 bit (not 8bit+FRC), and reproduces 95%+ of DCI-P3 gamut, and has a quality dimming control* It's definitely a consumer/user friendly wrapper, in a good way, in all but price.

*pro-tip! *** no perceptible flicker on or off axis from the viewer's line of sight, not the screen. If you want to easily see the how good a display's dimming control is or isn't, dim it in a dark room, look at it straight on and then turn your head until and look off screen until you can just catch the screen in the corner of your eye, your peripheral vision is far more sensitive to flicker than the your central vision.

I think a lot of reviewers don't really know what to test here in part because of how Apple positions this product, and in part because they really don't know what to test since they don't edit for print, or color grade. They read text, they view content, they play games, and they don't know much about ergonomics. It's possible that this display ain't that good, but these reviews don't tell us much about how a properly set display works. For starters any display should be set to the minimum brightness possible for a given ambient.

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