[psmith2.0]

Do you guys believe in life on other planets and stuff? Where do you stand on that whole issue? Any particular reason - of a scientific, religious or philosophical nature - you believe what you do?

And to what extent do you believe things stand? Simple, mindless microscopic life-forms or full-blown intelligent, advanced civilizations? Or somewhere in between?

Just curious.

I'll be puttering around in the backyard on an exceptionally clear night, perhaps feeling a bit more humble and thoughtful than usual. And I will look up to see all the stars and other glowing objects in the sky, and think to myself "we can't be all there is...".

For the record, yes...I believe. In the whole gamut (cellular to civilization). I just can't swallow that we - on this one tiny planet - is all there is. Simply too hard to believe, for me.

[Quagmire]

I believe there is life out there. I do believe that they are more advanced then us. There must be a reason why we got here. But, I do not believe that they are peaceful. They want to kill us when we go more advanced then they are.

[Eugene]

Estimated 7x10^22 stars divided between 10^10 galaxies...

Yes, surely there is something out there. As for what is out there, I'm sure it runs the gamut. I wouldn't hold my breath on any breakthrough discoveries though...heh.

[DMBand0026]

I don't believe in life "out there" really. I don't have much to back it up, but no one has given me any reason to believe otherwise.

And on that note, I'm gonna go stare at the stars too. Feels like a good night to sit on the roof and contemplate life...or lack thereof

[psmith2.0]

Before I die, I hope this is the ONE thing that is finally, without doubt, laid to rest. I'm sincerely hoping that within the next 40-50 years, "something" happens that makes it crystal clear we're not alone.



I don't ask for much, really. I'd just like to die knowing, one way or the other.

Here's kinda an offshoot question/thing to ponder: what do you think, exactly, higher-ups in the government and military REALLY know but aren't saying? Not trying to be flippant here, but do you think, somewhere, exists a "captured" or crashed vehicle of some sort? Or some other definitive proof that we're not alone? I tend to think about this probably more than any other "recreational topic".



I would love to be able to sit in front of some DC/Pentagon people and be allowed to ask two or three specific questions and get, with no double-talk or "that's classified, Mr. Scates" responses, simple straight, honest answers.

I wouldn't tell a soul. I just want to know for my own reasons...



In case you're wondering, yes I recently saw "Close Encounters" on TV. Every time I see it, that whole end sequence just revs me up. I get totally teary-eyed every time I see Richard Dreyfuss board the ship and think "you know, I'd gladly trade 15 years off my life to be able to do that, what he's doing...". I'd go in a HEARTBEAT (have no wife, no kids, etc. so there's no problems on that front...you bet your ass I would!). I'd step onto a vehicle TONIGHT, and not care what happened afterwards, if I could.

[Moogs]

I have given this a lot of thought over the last few years, as I started to read more and more books on Cosmology (the scientific study aimed at understanding the origins of the universe and the processes of creation within the universe), Astronomy and space travel. While I am no physicist, I would be shocked if there *wasn't* a wide array of other life forms spread out across the Universe as we understand it.

The Universe is such an inexplicably enormous place, filled with *billions* of galaxies... and consequently with trillions and trillions of star nurseries, solar systems, planets, comets, etc... that the odds of there NOT being other forms of life are astronomically (pun intended) small. To give you some idea of the scale, if tomorrow we invent a full-proof propulsion system and spacecraft which could travel at and withstand the speed of light, it would take more than 25,000 YEARS (YEARS!) to reach the center of our own Milky Way. Travelling across to the other spiral arms... it might take as long as 70 or 80,000 years just to get clear of our galaxy.

Now consider the fact that there are galaxies like that everywhere "out there" that is comprehensible to us as humans, and that the distances involved between them are often astronomically larger than the diameters of the galaxies themselves. People always say "like grains of sand on a beach", but really, our entire solar system (not us as individuals) is one of those grains of sand... and all the sand grains that make up the beach is our galaxy... and all the other grains of dirt and sand in the world... the universe.

And there are some theories gaining credibility that there may be "other" universes parallel to our own. Still somewhat science fiction because it's hard to prove, but there are models being made that can explain such things at a certain level of theoretical abstraction.

However you choose to look at it, we are a pittance. LESS than a speck of sand in the grand scheme of things. And yes, I believe there is a God and that the engines that drive the creation and evolution of the Universe are the tools of the trade so to speak. Nothing so petty as the little stories we write in our Bibles and Qarans and Torahs. We don't even have a clue yet, but hopefully one day we will understand.

Who knows, maybe we all have to finish our lives here before we can understand the life out there. Maybe our brains just can't absorb it or the implications of it all. All I know is, if anyone with the slightest bit of imagination and perspective can read the few books I've read, and NOT see the real probability of other forms of life in this vast expanse of matter and energy (and anti-matter and dark energy) that we call the Universe... well, they need to rethink things.

To my way of thinking, it's almost impossible that there *aren't* other complex life forms just in our own galaxy alone. And by complex I mean something far more interesting that bacteria or amoebas. Remember: all the television, radio and communications signals we've sent in our entire history... won't reach even the center of our galaxy for another 25,000 years or so.

That's kind of the irony... there may be thousands and thousands of other complex life forms out there, but we're so far away from one another that in a sense, we're alone anyway. Life is a great paradox, I guess.



PS - whatever the government knows... it ain't much in the grand scheme of things. We are like infants sitting in front of a computer motherboard, trying to figure out what it is we are looking at (to use geek-speak). Maybe we can touch and sense that it is a solid object, and it is green or blue... with little black shapes... and tiny silver lines... and little coils. But we're infants so in the end it's just a collection of textures and shapes until we have the cranial horsepower to understand it at a deeper level of absraction.

PPS - I too would jump onto the ship in a second... as long as my instincts told me the occupants were peaceful... I'm going.

[psmith2.0]

I've considered the "yeah, we're not alone...but we're so far apart, we may as well be" and I find it interesting. Interesting that maybe to some OTHER civilization we here on Earth are but "mindless microscopic organisms" and for all we think we know, we're actually quite primitive and in the dark.



We think of advances in travel and propulsion simly in terms of what WE know, or what's possible in OUR world or things WE'VE managed to discover.

I always think about that too. Just because we haven't discovered it or figured it out...



It's like watching those old B&W newsreels from a century ago, watching people testing out their various flying machines. They all crash and break apart. And while it makes for good comedy, how would we ever know that some ultra-ultra advanced life form isn't watching us and laughing their asses of (if they have one, of course) at our simplistic, primitive space shuttles, supersonic jets, etc.

If it comes to be that we're not alone, after all, then it stands to reason that there might be theories and laws and all sorts of things out there that, to us, are based in science fiction but are totally commonplace and "old hat" to other life.

"These idiots...they're still viewing space travel as a novel, only-for-a-select-few proposition...".



We might very well be the dumb-asses of the universe, and just not know it.

[BurningWheel]

i don't like talking about it. it freaks me out since it brings me the religious question

but i do believe there are other life forms of all kinds

[Moogs]

Paul, what you say is correct. The real trick is not the technologies themselves but understanding all the potential laws of physics, chemistry and even biology that can affect those technologies over long durations of time. Even time itself maybe not be as well understood as we think it is.

So, you are right: in 20 years the next Feinman or Einstein may be able to prove that one or more of our laws of physics are incorrect (or just incomplete). And the new things that we come to understand may enable us to fathom something more than say "light speed". Perhaps we will discover a way for a physical object to bend space itself... sort of like getting from one edge of a piece of paper to the other by scrunching it up and jumping the "gap".

But in the end this kind of all goes back to my point about us being mental infants even today. We just cannot grasp the things we need to grasp yet, to make travel across the enormous distances of space, an even theoretical practicality. And until we can go there, we'll have a hard time proving or understanding anything... unless "they" come here first.

[709]

Originally Posted by Moogs We are like infants sitting in front of a computer motherboard, trying to figure out what it is we are looking at (to use geek-speak). Maybe we can touch and sense that it is a solid object, and it is green or blue... with little black shapes... and tiny silver lines... and little coils. But we're infants so in the end it's just a collection of textures and shapes until we have the cranial horsepower to understand it at a deeper level of abstraction.

'Domesticated Primates' is the term I've heard most, though I tend to fall back on 'Monkeys With Machines'.

And yes, I Believe. You'd have to be quite stubborn (or subscribe to some tiny-brained social voodoo that deems 'we are alone and the center of all') not to.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by pscates I've considered the "yeah, we're not alone...but we're so far apart, we may as well be" and I find it interesting. Interesting that maybe to some OTHER civilization we here on Earth are but "mindless microscopic organisms" and for all we think we know, we're actually quite primitive and in the dark.

While of course it is possible that we could be a lot dumber than some alien d00ds out there, I don't think they would be so flippant about "human civilisation". We have the power, now, to annihilate all life on this planet within a few hours. And that's a lot of life -- every square centimetre of air and soil and every plant or animal is alive. I think any aliens would instantly be wary of something (humans) that had such destructive power.

[709]

Originally Posted by SonOfSylvanus We have the power, now, to annihilate all life on this planet within a few hours. And that's a lot of life -- every square centimetre of air and soil and every plant or animal is alive.

Just like Paul said, quite primitive and in the dark.

[curiousuburb]

Eric sings it so well

And apparently got most of the details right, even after 20 years of new astronomy

As for the Drake equation and similar attempts to calculate statistically, it's likely, if not certain that the probability of life elsewhere approaches 1 in a quantum way. Space.com and the SETI Institute publish regular columns on a variety of these topics that might be interesting reading for those who want to know the current states of the search and science.

Personally, I've always known I will leave this planet (maybe on Rutan's rocket as a tourist), though I've never been clear on if it was a return trip. I've also always felt there was intelligent life elsewhere.

During my time broadcasting in radio, I made a point of saying hello to extrasolar listeners since the station was 100,000 watts of FM that was leaving the planet. My late night show greetings from the late 80s are now 16 light years out and have reached the nearest 30 star systems. If they were BBKing fans or enjoyed the Jazz I spun, I might have heard back from those stars in the 8 year bubble by now. I'd have to check my astronomy software, but Alpha and Proxima Centauri, Wolf 359, and I think Barnard's Star are all in the response window... no reply might mean no life... might not.

One of the reasons I like running SETI@Home (and have since 97) is that I have sent my own interplanetary messages, and since I was somehow involved in outgoing communication, I'd like to be there for the reply.

Full disclosure: I grew up gazing at the night sky and watching Star Trek.

[EmC]

There is life out there, and we are the Alabama of the Universe.

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 We might very well be the dumb-asses of the universe, and just not know it.

I have similar feelings. As Douglas Adams put it better than I could:
"Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea..."

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by EmC There is life out there, and we are the Alabama of the Universe.

Ouch.

[psmith2.0]

I bet, even on other planets in other galaxies, there are still buttholes who cut in front of you in the express check-out, with 212 items, and try to write a check with no ID using a pen that has no ink.

Some stuff is just universal, I'm sure.



Maybe they're not so advanced after all, the little green bastards...

[Moogs]

The Scates Theorum: the general prevalence of buttholedness is evenly distributed throughout the Universe and its constituent life forms...

[Moogs]

Here's a cool link that some of you may find useful in your mental journies through the cosmos....

http://origins.jpl.nasa.gov/index1.html

[curiousuburb]

Sounds like SETI@Home spotted signals for further study

Though this story is being discounted as the drift gets refined, it's put SETI back onto the evening news.

[DMBand0026]

Originally Posted by curiousuburb Sounds like SETI@Home spotted signals for further study Though this story is being discounted as the drift gets refined, it's put SETI back onto the evening news.

pfft...who wants to use spare computer cycles to look for friggin aliens? How about a cure for cancer?

folding@home is where it's at.

[Wickers]

[Luca]

or...

[Moogs]

There's someone out there, they've just got better things to do than hang around with us.

[ast3r3x]

I believe somewhere there is. No reason to believe it is more or less intelligent though. I think the biggest advantage we have to figuring out things like this are people like stephen hawkings. People like him are they key to our real space knowledge.

[wretched]

I've always been a "believer", before I was in highschool up until now. I had to debate against the facts that Earth has been visited in my english class in college and I had to research reports done by the CIA and government's and I had to disprove what people who believe in aliens and UFO's have stated. It was painful, but ironically I did the best work on it (or so the professor said).

That said, it's hard to believe that we are the only ones in the Universe, talk about a waste of space if we are the only ones that exist. Do I believe Earth was visited by Aliens? I'm not too sure, there are some interesting sightings and it's tough to deny sometimes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember when I did my research, through the 80's the US government was testing it's "secret" planes (Some of these "secret" planes are the stealth planes we have today) and that was the CIA's excuse to the residents living in Nevada and New Mexico and from the reports I found I believe the CIA (I'm probably going to go off into Google after posting this and find all my sources again).

What I find more interesting is the crop circles, I just don't see how some of these crop circles I've seen could be man made because they seem so sophisticated to actually make. Anyone have any info on this? I remember reading briefly about this, and apparently two guys admitted to making crop circles.

[Moogs]

Most are demonstrably fake, others are harder to prove one way or another because of their elaborate designs, etc. My guess though is that all are fake.

[sunrain]

I adhere to the "it'd be an awful waste of space" theory.

[Chinney]

I think that there probably is life out there. And I don't really think that this is a religous question. Perhaps God provided for life only on Earth...or perhaps (more likely, I think) he provided the building blocks for life - and life itself - in more thant one place in his/her universe.

[scratt]

There is an interesting book called 'Supernature'.. I think it is by a guy called Iain Nicholson? Not sure on the name.. I read it when I was at school. (A while ago! )

Anyway he did the maths on the probability of life out there based on a similar equation to that which Eugene used.

What he actually proved was that not only is it 100% certain there is life out there, but there are so many planet capable of sustaining life that statistics prove that there are probably about 100 (That is not a typo) planets with me typing this very same message and all you guys out there reading it!

The problem as we all know is that everything is so damn far away from everything else we'll probably never meet anything.

It was an amazing book and had loads more stuff on Quantum Physics etc...