Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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You know, its ironic. Who makes the best Windows machines these days?
Apple. For three main reasons: 1) Design. You can find machines thinner and lighter than the MacBook Pro. You can find machines more powerful than the MacBook Pro. But can you find one as thin and as powerful as the MacBook Pro? For the price? No, you really can't. At least, I've never seen one, and I've seen a lot of notebooks. 2) Boot Camp drivers. Who uses Boot Camp on a regular basis? The drivers just keep getting better. They make Windows feel more Mac like. The volume, brightness, eject keys use the same GUI elements as they do on the Mac side of things. The backlit keyboard works. The iSight works. Two finger scroll and two finger right click works. The GPU and Wireless drivers work flawlessly, and are completely unobtrusive compared to the "actual" Windows drivers. I have used many PCs. Apple makes the best Windows drivers. For instance, most wireless drivers require you to install Linksys or Netgear drivers which are obtrusive and crappy. The GPU driver for the X1600 is a dream to use compared to the ATi Catalyst bullshit. 3) Apple apps for windows. iTunes. Safari. They aren't as good as their counterparts on the Mac side of things, but they do a lot to make Windows feel more Mac-like. Safari isn't really usable in its current form, but it is progressing and I think the release version will be superb. I've used a lot of Windows boxes. Hell, I've built them myself. But using Windows on a MacBook Pro trumps them all. Its crazy, when you think about it. Apple makes Windows better. Go figure. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I think this topic would have served a better purpose on a pro-Windows message board. I'm not going to post "I agree" because I'm sure there will be a queue of people here ready to do that.
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Right Honourable Member
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I agree with all that was said but:
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Veteran Member
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Well, I agree if that's what you're looking for. But, Other PC manufactures are good and offer many more choices. (Like HP, Lenovo, Falcon Northwest, etc.)
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Veteran Member
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Right Honourable Member
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I will actually agree.
My iMac runs XP better than any beige box I've had. It's the drivers. I would assume if Microsoft knew *exactly* what hardware they were dealing with they might come close to how well Apple does it. What's funny is I used to be one of the "every app is full screen" people, but on a widescreen monitor that is ridiculous. I've started using windows like a mac, moving icons to the right side, and resizing windows. It's always disappointing when expose doesn't work! |
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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Apple, on the other hand, has about a dozen configurations to work with. And when you burn that drivers disc, its specific to your computer. Alienware is close to this as well. Fewer hardware configs to worry about means they can ship with pretty good drivers, and they do. You know, the other think going on here is when you start up your Mac in Windows, it doesn't come preloaded with crapware, like anti-virus software that doesn't work well, slows your machine down, and makes you pay a subscription after 30 days. Sometimes I wonder; if Microsoft made hardware, would Windows "feel" better on Microsoft PCs? Of course, Dell and the Wintel crew would be up in arms if this happened. I'm excited to see where Boot Camp goes when Leopard is out. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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Yeah. It works most of the time for me, but it's a little rough. Still, the fact that Apple is trying to make the Windows experience better for their customers says a lot.
Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Veteran Member
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25 chars of wasted space.
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I'm still hoping that Leopard will eventually get that fast boot camp switching, I will start using that instead of Parallels if it would come out.
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Stallion
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
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I saw a Core 2 Duo (2ghz), 2 gb ram (667 mhz), 160gb HDD, 15.4" display (1440x900orwhatever), and all the manuals, ac adapter, etc for 600 shipped on eBay. I think it was a gateway or a dell and from a power seller so it was legit. He seemed to be selling many refurbished machines so the deal may still be out there.
I don't think you'll beat that deal anywhere. I would pounce on that in a second if I carried a five figure balance in my bank account. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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And yes, I've owned Dells and Alienwares; completely different out of the box experience. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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Plus, it probably doesn't have things like bluetooth, DVI out, gigabit ethernet, 802.11n, etc. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Stallion
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
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I am fairly certain it had all those things except 802.11n(which isn't prevalent today anyway) or DVI-out. Ram is ram is ram is ram. I bet you're one of the guys who won't buy the generic brand of milk from a grocery store when they're the exact same thing. Maybe the CAS is one higher? So what? So your DVD might copy in 5 minutes, 34.444444 seconds instead of 5 minutes, 34.444443 seconds? Flimsy case and build quality would be my one concern. Since most people don't keep computers more than 3-4 years these days (and in the case of the excessively rich high school/college crowd on these boards, 3-4 months ), I don't think it will be an issue at all. |
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Just because a motherboard has Intel chips throughout doesn't mean it is better designed then an NFI or Via motherboard. |
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I shot the sherrif.
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Apple makes great notebooks as long as you want exactly what Apple happens to be offering.
Many people don't. If the MacBook and MacBook Pro aren't what you're looking for, Apple is out. Also, the line that Apple uses better components so costs more is a pile of crap. It's simply not true. They use the same parts, good or bad, as everyone else. (Think back to the leaky capacitors, batteries from Sony that blow up etc.) They don't even have a decent QA process anymore. (which they used to) See the aversion to rev. A products now. (As an example, PowerBook whitespots on the screen, latches that don't latch, MacBooks powering off with no warning due to an internal short, power supplies on G5 iMacs failing consistently etc. The list goes on and on) No, what you pay for with Apple is OSX and the design of your hardware. That's it. For some it's worth it, for many it's not. Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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I think it will be increasingly notebook-centric. That might sound obvious, but I'm not just talking about adding more notebooks - I'm talking about making fewer desktops. Quite simply, I'm convinced that the mid-range headless desktop will never happen, unless Apple opens OS X up to third parties again. Not because Apple hates people who don't buy AIOs - but because more and more people are buying notebooks instead. And it makes sense - pretty much any notebook can do what most people need a computer to do. Hell, a $200 notebook can. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Still, I never once mentioned Apple in my post, so if you were responding to my post then understand that. Believe me, with a Rev A iMac G5 I know all too well about the Nichicon capacitor troubles. |
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can't type
Join Date: Oct 2005
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And the same thing can be said with most PC-hardware. Two companies make 90% of the graphiccards out there, the mobo-market is pretty much split three ways, and so on. All that means that the percentage spent on RD is way down. For a company like MSI, there might be 20 dollars difference in component costs on their cheapest and their top of the line motherboards, the same thing is especially true in the graphics-market (Nvidia spent X amount on developing their newest chipgeneration, andthose money paid for all of their current chips. Not like years ago when a company like S3 could spend all of their RD budget on one high-end chip). |
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can't type
Join Date: Oct 2005
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And not to mention, with a windows laptop you actually get touchpad technology from the 90ies (more than one button ) Quote:
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Actually untill there is a update, I'd take the Dell 1330 over a Macbook anytime... |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
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DELL SPECS as configured: SYSTEM COLOR Pearl White PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7300 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache) OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® Vista Home Premium Edition LCD AND CAMERA Standard Display with 2.0 Megapixel Webcam MEMORY 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz HARD DRIVE 120GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM) OPTICAL DRIVE CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive) VIDEO CARD Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100 SOUND OPTIONS High Definition Audio 2.0 FINGERPRINT SCANNER No Fingerprint Reader BATTERY OPTIONS 56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell) WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR) Macbook Specs as configured: Specifications 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4MB shared L2 cache running at full processor speed 667MHz frontside bus 1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512 120GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English iWork '06 preinstalled AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector) Built-in AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi (based on IEEE 802.11n draft specification) Built-in Bluetooth 2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate (EDR) Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit. |
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Stallion
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
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Not a fair comparison because you're comparing Santa Rosa (brand new, top of the line currently) components to the previous generations(within the MacBook).
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Obviously, such a comparison won't be able to be totally fair until the MacBook is on Santa Rosa, as well. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Veteran Member
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Hang about...is Graphguy, from his posts, only on here to troll? Why has he not been ridiculed yet!!?
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
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FSB aside, how much difference would Santa-rosa make to the typical end-user, in his/her day to day home use?
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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I'll take a two finger right click over a two button track pad any day of the week. Much easier to drop your middle finger to the pad than to move the thumb to the right.
As for Santa Rosa? Most of the stuff in Santa Rosa is already in the MacBook, i.e. 802.11n. LED MacBooks are probably right around the corner. And yes, the XPS 1330 costs more than a similarly configured MacBook. Vista driver problems? You're in the minority. It's pretty widely acknowledged that Vista has huge driver problems. Especially if you don't have a Vista-ready PC, which is most of them. I suspect SP1 will make Vista ready for real usage, and the good news is, its right around the corner. Quote:
iPhoto and iTunes are much easier to use than their PC counterparts. I will concede that the Windows version of iTunes is a resource hog. As for Firefox? As of Safari 3, functionality is pretty on par - but boy, is Firefox ugly. I try to use Firefox sometimes but I can't get past the interface quirks. It's better on the PC but on the Mac its one ugly duckling. Safari 3 for Windows, unsurprisingly, is still pretty unstable. But, remember, it is a beta. All that said, the XPS 1330 is a nice machine, but I wouldn't be caught dead owning a Dell. I'd wait to see what the next MacBook rev brings. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I believe (IIRC, YMMV, etc., I could be wrong) Santa Rosa allows use of GMA 965, which is supposedly a huge improvement over GMA 950. This is mostly due to inclusion of hardware T&L (very hard not to type T&A right there).
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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And I'm sure saying this is only going to cement my apparent reputation as a design whore, but...
The XPS 1330 is really freakin' ugly. For all the talk about how it's the "first Dell with design" and the "thinnest 13.3" notebook ever" (at it's thinnest point, natch), I'm really not seeing the appeal. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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