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torifile
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2009-02-18, 20:24

I thought I bought a gigabit router, but I ended up getting a switch instead. D'oh! Any recommendations for one? I don't want it wireless because I've got a good wireless router already. It'll feed my wireless router as well as the wired network connections in my house. I don't want it wired because it's not going to be located in a good location for a wireless signal through the house (in the garage). I'll have my wireless router located more centrally.

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torifile
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2009-02-18, 20:40

Ok. i just looked at the specs for my wireless router and it's got gigabit ethernet. I can try it out in my garage and see how it works. I wonder a couple things:

1) the garage is not temp controlled so it gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I don't know how extreme the temps get in there so it may not be a concerns.
2) the router only has 4 ports but I'm going to have at least 8 (maybe 12) network connections I'd like to have wired throughout the house. Can I use the switch I mistakenly bought to give me additional connections? That is, will my router know what to do with multiple connections through the switch?

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zippy
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2009-02-18, 21:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Ok. i just looked at the specs for my wireless router and it's got gigabit ethernet. I can try it out in my garage and see how it works. I wonder a couple things:

1) the garage is not temp controlled so it gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I don't know how extreme the temps get in there so it may not be a concerns.
2) the router only has 4 ports but I'm going to have at least 8 (maybe 12) network connections I'd like to have wired throughout the house. Can I use the switch I mistakenly bought to give me additional connections? That is, will my router know what to do with multiple connections through the switch?
Yes on the bolded portion.

As for the temp issues, I don't think you'd have issues unless you were talking really extremes, i.e. over 120 F and below 10 F or so. Those numbers aren't based on anything other than my own suspicions though, so take them for what they are worth.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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turtle
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2009-02-19, 01:29

You should be fine with your plan. Just make sure the network equipment isn't enclosed other than the garage (ie, not in a box). You just plug the switch into one of the router ports and you now have 7 extra ports.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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copland
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2009-02-19, 05:01

How's about humidity? Checked the humidity range for the router?
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torifile
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2009-02-19, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
You should be fine with your plan. Just make sure the network equipment isn't enclosed other than the garage (ie, not in a box). You just plug the switch into one of the router ports and you now have 7 extra ports.
Isn't it 6 extra ports? One of my router's ports is used and one of the switch's? That would give me 10 ports, but leaves me with the problem of my 2 extra connections if I have 12 ports in my house...

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Dave
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2009-02-19, 11:53

You could return the switch and get one with more ports.
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torifile
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2009-02-19, 12:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
You could return the switch and get one with more ports.
Eh. Funny guy. Yeah, that's probably what I'll end up doing. Got any recommendations for a 10 port gigabit switch?

edit: nevermind. Looks like it goes from 8 to 24 ports and that's way more than I need. I'll just switch connections as needed. I won't ever have 12 devices connected at once so it'll be just a minor inconvenience.

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turtle
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2009-02-19, 12:37

They do have 16 port switches out there. In your case though I'd go for the 24 on the minimum side. Sure you don't plan to have but 12 right now, why limit yourself. I'm sure you'll grow into it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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torifile
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2009-02-19, 18:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
They do have 16 port switches out there. In your case though I'd go for the 24 on the minimum side. Sure you don't plan to have but 12 right now, why limit yourself. I'm sure you'll grow into it.
I'm not sure it'll fit into my structured wiring box. I've already got it jammed full of coax cables and my cable modem and now the router. I need to figure out a better organizational system.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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zippy
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2009-02-19, 18:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I'm not sure it'll fit into my structured wiring box. I've already got it jammed full of coax cables and my cable modem and now the router. I need to figure out a better organizational system.
I had a co-worker go with the structured wiring box when he built his house - but I tried to talk him out of it. Those things are just too cramped.

I suggested he bring all his wires to a room that doesn't need to have that polished, finished look - like whatever room has the water tank and electrical panel. Then hang a piece of plywood on the wall, paint it so that it doesn't look too bad, and surface mount everything. That's what we have in our office computer room for our phone system and it would work very well for splitting cable/satellite and configuring network patch panels, routers, and switches.

Most things can mount flush to the wall and the plywood gives you a nice big area where you don't have to worry about finding studs or using drywall anchors. And if you have need of a shelf or two, or even a small rack for full-size components, you can mount it right on the plywood or next to it.

Then there are the cable routing pegs, space for a large power strip or two, and so on. You don't need to use a full sheet either - 1/2 a sheet or some other size, depending on space needs works well too.

My house really needs a wiring upgrade and it will be relatively easy to get to most rooms through the attic. I plan on implementing the system I described above

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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torifile
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2009-02-19, 19:52

I've done all the wiring myself so the box was my idea. I didn't realize that it would be so tight but it's workable. The wires run through the space under our stairs behind the garage so there plenty of workable spaceback there. Worst comes to worst I could just leave the connections in That space and put a little door for access. That's actually not such a bad idea now that I think about it. This has been a learning experience for sure. The funny thing is of all the stuff I've done I find stripping the cat5e cables to be the hardest. Those wires are really fragile.

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torifile
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2009-02-19, 20:30

Completely OT, but how do I hook up my speakers to what seems like a digital coax connection? I got the surround sound wiring done and they've got plates for speaker connections with these coax thingies. I don't know what to do with them.

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cosus
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2009-02-19, 20:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Completely OT, but how do I hook up my speakers to what seems like a digital coax connection? I got the surround sound wiring done and they've got plates for speaker connections with these coax thingies. I don't know what to do with them.
An RCA audio cable can be used for digital coaxial.
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turtle
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Formerly turtle2472
 
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2009-02-20, 00:25

Yeah, seems like you'd be better off going with a plywood panel and open wiring. Can you ditch the box?

As for terminating Cat5e, I use an old stripper to put a small nick in the outer insulation and twist it off. Don't use the stripper to pull or push the insulation off because it normally will nick the internal conductors. Then I align the conductors and trim if going into a RJ45 plug to crimp or place in the socket for punch-down.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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zippy
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2009-02-20, 01:29

I have a simple stripper that has an adjustable blade. I have it set so that it only nicks the casing a few time when you spin it around - then you can just twist and pull the rest of the way. It's essentially the same as what turtle is doing, but with the adjustable blade, I can control the cut a bit more. Mine looks like this:

but on this web site http://ideal.datacomtools.com/idealc...-strippers.htm
it's $26.25

(I got mine free).

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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torifile
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2009-02-20, 09:02

Yeah, I've got one of those fancy tools and it can work but I'm sure I just haven't learned how to use it properly yet. The tools are freakin' expensive. All told, I don't think I saved a penny by doing this myself rather than paying someone to do it. When I add up the materials and tools, I've probably spent like $500-600. But now I've got the tools, the know-how and I can put in as many connections as I want, where I want so it was worth it.

As far as ditching the box - I'd rather not since I've cut a good sized hole in my garage wall and insulation to fit it in. I've decided that I need to take my wireless router out of the garage because my coverage isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I'm going to move it to the closet and mount it high up on the wall. I'll run a couple network/coax cables in there and patch it to the switch which will stay in the box.

Fortunately, I can get to the back wall of the closet by climbing into the hole I cut in my garage wall. It's only about 10' away from the box. I'll need to run an outlet into the closet, too, but that should be relatively easy since I don't need to put it on a GFI because it's inside the house.

I've also decided that I'm just going to get another switch like the one I have to give me 14 connections (not including the 3 off my wireless router if needed.) By moving my wireless router and cable modem out of the box, I should have plenty of room and it'll look nice in the garage - the media box sits flush on the wall with a white metal cover so you can't even tell it's anything out of the ordinary. And it's grounded in case I need to run an outlet into it.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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zippy
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2009-02-20, 10:58

I'd definitely use the box since you already have it. If it ever came down to absolutely needing more space, you could always expand outside of the existing box - either with the plywood option, or another box - assuming there is space on the garage wall.

As for saving money, I think you might be surprised. Even with the money you spent on tools, it's very likely that you are still ahead in the pocketbook. Besides, this stuff is fun and you can't put a price on that. It's also extremely flexible.

I am happy that I discovered Monoprice.com (thanks to someone here) before I purchased all the supplies for my house. It looks like that will save me a fair chunk of money - wall jacks are expensive everywhere else.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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torifile
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2009-02-22, 23:23

I've got most of my network up and running. I've gotten around 11 MB/s transfers from my iMac to my AppleTV and MBP (all wired). Is that typical for a gigabit network?

Right now, I'm getting "only" 5 MB/s transferring from my MBP to my iMac. Is there any way to easily troubleshoot my network to make sure it's optimized?

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Eugene
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2009-02-23, 00:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I've got most of my network up and running. I've gotten around 11 MB/s transfers from my iMac to my AppleTV and MBP (all wired). Is that typical for a gigabit network?

Right now, I'm getting "only" 5 MB/s transferring from my MBP to my iMac. Is there any way to easily troubleshoot my network to make sure it's optimized?
11MB/s is terrible for GbE. You should be maxing out your AppleTV or MBP's sustainable HDD transfer rates...around 50MB/s at least.

As for 802.11n, well 5MB/s isn't that bad. In real-world usage, I wouldn't expect to get more than 8MB/s between two wireless clients.
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PB PM
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2009-02-23, 04:17

11mb/s isn't that good, I get about that on my 1/100 network.
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torifile
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2009-02-23, 07:57

That 5 MB/s was wired. And it's MB not mb. So my transfers were about 93 mb/s and 40 mb/s, respectively. Still bad but not as bad as PB PM thought it was. I looked it up and it's .09 Gb/s. And my MBP to my iMac transfer was pathetic. Hmm...

Ok, how do I begin to figure it out? For starters:

1) My patch cables are wired using 568b when my other wires are all 568a configuration (I made my patch cables before I found out that 568a was preferred)
2) My MBP was hardwired to my wireless router for the transfer. Might that make a difference?

I am sure the transfer was over the gigabit because I turned off wireless on both my computers and the AppleTV said that it was using ethernet. I still need to secure my cabling so I'll make sure I'm not cutting across any power wires in the crawlspace.

One other tidbit. I don't know if this relevant or not: I was transferring to/from my USB 2 connected HD, not directly to my iMac's HD.

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Taskiss
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2009-02-23, 08:42

For what it's worth, I've never seen any problems with 568b. From what I have experienced, if you make your cables well, you won't have any crosstalk.

And how are you testing your network? For your config, I suggest copying a movie or something... some single huge file ... so you get network speed results and not anything else.

Compare using command line commands...first copy a file on the system to /dev/null and time it..

time cp huge_file /dev/null

That will give you best case copy times. Then do the same thing however you are copying the file... via FTP or NFS or whatever. That will tell you your network speed best, I've found. If you have a managed switch you can log in and check your errors or whatever, if that's an option.

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zippy
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2009-02-23, 11:24

I'm not aware of any preference between 568A and 568B other than personal preference. As long as you terminate both ends of a cable the same, and make sure the terminations are done properly, there should be no performance difference between the two. As for the terminations, you need to make sure you maintain the twist on each pair right up until the point of termination, and strip no more than about 1/2 inch of cable jacket to reveal the pairs.

It might be a good idea to see if you can rent a test unit and check all of your runs and patch cables. I don't know if such a thing can be rented or not, but it's worth a look.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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turtle
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2009-02-23, 11:41

In general the 568A is used by military/government but when you buy a cable from the store it's 568B.
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torifile
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2009-02-23, 12:53

I've got a network test kit thing that I use to make sure all my connections work. Is that what you're talking about? I know that I've been untwisting probably more than I should but I don't know if I can terminate them properly if they're twisted right up to the end.

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Taskiss
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2009-02-23, 13:11

The easiest way I found to terminate the wires into the plastic plug is to grip them right at the end of the plastic jacket and pull them (straightening them) left, right, back and forth. Do that several times and they'll straighten out just fine. Then arrange them in proper order and do the straightening thing again. You should end up with straight wires in the proper order and flat from gripping them.

Then push them gently into the plug 'till you can see the ends butt up against bottom of the plug. Crimp and you're done.

There are at least 2 kinds of plugs though, and one kind has some little plastic comb like thing inside that separates the wires and guides them into the plug. I can dress a plug with that kind of design in about a quarter of the time I can the other.

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zippy
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2009-02-23, 16:17

These are the type I have traditionally used.


Notice how the cable jacket comes right up to the back of the jack, leaving only about 1/2" of wire exposed. Of course it's easiest to start by stripping a couple of inches of jacket material - that gives you a little extra wire to hang on to. You'll just end up cutting that excess off when you punch it down on the jack.

As for the twisting, if the twist in a pair of wires butts right up against the termination block such that it can't easily be spread to the two connection points, but untwisting it results in too much untwisted wire.... I usually un-tiwst it a bit, and then re-twist it just a smidge tighter so that it can still have the twist, but split easily to the two termination points. I hope that's clear, because it's hard to explain without visuals. I don't add an additional twist, just make the leading twist or two a bit tighter.

I don't know exactly what kind of network tester you are using, (and I haven't used one in a while to be honest) but many of the nicer ones have automatic test protocols for wiring specifications. In other words, if you tell it to test for Cat5e or Cat6 wiring, it will do a series of tests - speed, impedence, cross-talk, etc.. that you can then compare to the numbers from the wiring spec., which you should be able to find on the web. I don't have much experience with test units because our space was initially wired by a contractor, and I've only had to augment a few things here and there. And I haven't been willing to shell out money for a tester to use when I have helped others with their home wiring projects - but then I've never really had problems with the results of my wiring either so I haven't felt the need.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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torifile
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2009-02-23, 16:41

That's a much tighter twist than I can get on my terminations. I was actually wondering about putting the RJ45 male connections on more than the female ones. Those are a complete pain in my ass. I guess what I'm wondering is if there's anyway to know for sure what could be causing the slower throughput? I'm perfectly happy with 11 MB/s but it's only a fraction of what I should be getting.

The caveat here is that I'm not sure that number is 100% accurate. I started a time machine back up from my MBP to my iMac's external drive, mounted through the finder, at about 10:30pm last night. TM calculated 59 gigs to back up. I took a shower and was downstairs by 11:05 and the backup was done. No more than 40 minutes to transfer 59 gigs. Either the size given by TM was wrong or it was going faster when I wasn't looking.

My calculations indicate that if the size was right, it was getting somewhere around 25 MB/s while I wasn't there. Still not what Eugene was suggesting but not too shabby either. I'll do some more testing tonight.

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Taskiss
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2009-02-23, 16:48

I'd not use time machine for a benchmark for anything. It seems to be doing more than just copying files.
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