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Intel iBook in Jan...?


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Intel iBook in Jan...?
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kaseyha
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2005-11-17, 20:33

Quote:
It makes no sense to get Mac hardware if you want Windows.
That's not quite true.

I would love to be able to install Windows on Apple hardware so that I can more easily begin the transition to OS X at work. We use some software that is Windows only, but as the resident IT guy I want us to be using OS X. If I can begin by slowly transitioning Apple hardware in to replace Windows only boxes, but still be able to run some of our legacy software until I can free up the budget to replace it. . .
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PB PM
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2005-11-17, 20:49

Never really thought from that angle, so in that regard it might not be a bad idea. That is about the only good reason I can see for allowing it.
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Elysium
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2005-11-17, 20:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaseyha
That's not quite true.

I would love to be able to install Windows on Apple hardware so that I can more easily begin the transition to OS X at work. We use some software that is Windows only, but as the resident IT guy I want us to be using OS X. If I can begin by slowly transitioning Apple hardware in to replace Windows only boxes, but still be able to run some of our legacy software until I can free up the budget to replace it. . .
True, but I think the point PB PM is trying to make that if you are going to buy an Intel iBook just because it runs Windows and not because of OS X doesn't make much sense when you can get a better harware set-up for windows only for the same price point. If it allows for users to run Windows and OS X side by side, great. But it shouldn't be the main reason for buying one.

Formerly known as cynical_rock
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There is no snooze button on a cat.
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Roland
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2005-11-17, 21:00

anyone want to make a guess how fast these iBooks are going to be?

I got a mac mini with 1.25 GHZ and 1 gig of ram and I am thinking about selling it, if the new iBooks are faster than my mac mini.

I really like the mini, but I wanted to get an laptop in the first place, but held out because of the intel switch.
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PB PM
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2005-11-17, 21:05

Well considering that both the current ibooks are faster than your mini, I doubt that will be an issue.
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2005-11-17, 21:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM
who is going to take the time to make an app to switch between the OSs without sperate boot drives?
Ehh? You mean like GRUB? That's only, what, 8 years old?

On the developer boxes, people are triple-booting (OSX/Win/Lin) off one hard drive.
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PB PM
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2005-11-17, 21:17

Yes, that may be true, but the average user isn't going to get a developers version. And as for that program you talked about, never heard of it, not big into hacking my machine.
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ShadowOfGed
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2005-11-17, 21:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM
Yes, that may be true, but the average user isn't going to get a developers version. And as for that program you talked about, never heard of it, not big into hacking my machine.
GRUB: The GRand Unified Bootloader. It doesn't take much hacking at all, really. I mean, anyone who wants to run more than one OS on his/her computer will need multiple partitions anyway. Unless it's going to be run inside a virtual machine, like Virtual PC, in which case that problem has already been taken care of...

You don't need the developer version of anything to do this. It will work with a normal build of OS X, Windows, and Linux. It's just that you need to set aside a teeny amount of disk space to use GRUB to let you pick which one to boot when your computer powers on. The same functionality will be there in the normal version of OS X, so I hope that confusion didn't get you hung up...

Apparently I call the cops when I see people litter.

Last edited by ShadowOfGed : 2005-11-17 at 21:25. Reason: Of course, finishing my comment tends to help...
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kaseyha
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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2005-11-17, 21:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM
Yes, that may be true, but the average user isn't going to get a developers version. And as for that program you talked about, never heard of it, not big into hacking my machine.
Exactly. And your reasoning is exactly what Apple is probably counting on and why I hope they decide not to make an effort to prevent Windows from running on their hardware.

In any case, I really do hope that the iBook line is the first out with Intel chips. The pro crowd is used to waiting, average consumers wait for nothing. . .
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kukito
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Join Date: Nov 2005
 
2005-11-17, 22:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM
Then why buy a Mac at all? If you want Windows get a higher speed machine for about the same price as the mini / ibook. It makes no sense to get Mac hardware if you want Windows.
Because I want to transition from Windows to Mac. Being able to install Windows will allow me to do that less painfully. I'll still want Mac versions (or their equivalent) of my PC apps eventually. Why are you so bent out of shape about my desire to buy a Mac?
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kukito
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2005-11-17, 22:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by kukito
Because I want to transition from Windows to Mac. Being able to install Windows will allow me to do that less painfully. I'll still want Mac versions (or their equivalent) of my PC apps eventually. Why are you so bent out of shape about my desire to buy a Mac?
I'll answer my own question. Because my (hypothetical) cheap little iBook will be more powerful and versatile than your expensive PowerBook.
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PB PM
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2005-11-17, 22:34

I don't have a Powerbook, I have an ibook, look at my sig. I'm just against Windows... I only use XP in Virtual PC for a few features, otherwise I don't want to see it. Windows on a Mac, its like letting another man crawl into bed with your wife.
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mugwump
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2005-11-18, 00:13

Kukito, you can run Windows right now on any Mac with VPC for legacy applications. You can also run Linux, FreeBSD, and any number of other OS. In fact, a long time ago someone posted a link to some website where the guy had 40 operating systems running on his powerbook. Anyone know where that site is?

Anyhow, the iBooks are always neutered compared to the Powerbooks, when it comes to things like screen resolutions, powerpoint presentations monitor-out, L2 cache size, an awesome portable keyboard, graphics card and a cardbus slot.

The intelBook may have a snappy processor, but it's still consumer and not pro.
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rkevwill
 
 
2005-11-18, 00:57

I noticed the guy in the article saying consumers did not want anything less than 15 inches. I guess thats why sony and fujitsu and others are making those sweet little wide screen 11 and 13 inch models? (and charging outrageous prices for them!!!). Those are smaller than the 12 inch Ibook!! From someone who carries their laptop all around on airplanes and in cars, I would just DREAM of a laptop thats light, thin, and easy to carry, with a 12 inch widescreen. My 12 inch ibook fits the bill right now, but it can always be lighter, with a better wide screen, supporting 1280 X xxx.
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Maciej
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-11-18, 00:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid
cynical_rock: Are you sure you want a black iBook? People complain enough about their $200 nanos getting scratched up; can you imagine the outcry over an $800 laptop?
This is also assuming that it will be made out of that glossy plastic, which I think would look sorta tacky.
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2005-11-18, 01:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciej
This is also assuming that it will be made out of that glossy plastic, which I think would look sorta tacky.
I'm really hoping we see a 13" widescreen.
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jade
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2005-11-18, 01:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkevwill
I noticed the guy in the article saying consumers did not want anything less than 15 inches. I guess thats why sony and fujitsu and others are making those sweet little wide screen 11 and 13 inch models? (and charging outrageous prices for them!!!). Those are smaller than the 12 inch Ibook!! From someone who carries their laptop all around on airplanes and in cars, I would just DREAM of a laptop thats light, thin, and easy to carry, with a 12 inch widescreen. My 12 inch ibook fits the bill right now, but it can always be lighter, with a better wide screen, supporting 1280 X xxx.
There are very few of you. The average best buy shopper could care lessabout size or battery. The want cheap, high GHZ, RAM and HDD.

Those small expensive notebooks are for business travellers...not consumers. I was an apple rep at a big box. 1/2 of the people ignored the ibook altogether. The complaint? That 699/799/899 computer has a bigger screen and it is cheaper than the ibook.
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Anthem
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2005-11-18, 02:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by jade
Those small expensive notebooks are for business travellers...not consumers. I was an apple rep at a big box. 1/2 of the people ignored the ibook altogether. The complaint? That 699/799/899 computer has a bigger screen and it is cheaper than the ibook.
Times change. For my first laptop, I figured a 15" screen was essential. After using it for a while and lugging it all over, I'm ready for something smaller. I used my friend's 12" Powerbook and I'm sold. If the new iBooks aren't drastically crippled, I'll almost definitely buy one next spring.

I don't think I'm alone in that. There's a trend towards buying smaller things, and I think a lot of people are getting on board with that.
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PB PM
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2005-11-18, 03:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugwump

Anyhow, the iBooks are always neutered compared to the Powerbooks, when it comes to things like screen resolutions, powerpoint presentations monitor-out, L2 cache size, an awesome portable keyboard, graphics card and a cardbus slot.
The current ibook and Powerbook both have the same 512k L2 cache size. That said they have DDR (ibook) rather than DDR2 (PB), older/slower CPU (money saving reason right there), lack of in/out audio (ibook just has audio out aside from built in mic), and slower bus to line up with slower CPU. An easy to apply hack (only one I'm willing to us on my machine) allows for spanning on ibook, lack of PC card slot (don't have much need for one now days anyway unless you want Firewire 800 ports).
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jade
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2005-11-19, 04:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
Times change. For my first laptop, I figured a 15" screen was essential. After using it for a while and lugging it all over, I'm ready for something smaller. I used my friend's 12" Powerbook and I'm sold. If the new iBooks aren't drastically crippled, I'll almost definitely buy one next spring.

I don't think I'm alone in that. There's a trend towards buying smaller things, and I think a lot of people are getting on board with that.
Size doesn't matter for most computer buyers (at least at lowend)

There is another trend towards notebooks as primary computers....and you can get a fairly small 15" notebook. Other notebooks in the 12" ibooks size class offer bigger screens and higher resolutions.
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Doxxic
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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2005-11-19, 07:46

I've owned a 12" powerbook since 2 years and i'm getting a little sick of the small screen, even though 1042 x 768 is basically enough in terms of pixels. And the other tech specs are still ok as well, even though the machine is 2 years old.

So my next computer might well be a 14" intel iBook, if it's not too expensive...
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capitaine_choc
 
 
2005-11-22, 12:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
I'll buy that! Sounds halfway reasonable, even. Maybe the PowerBooks (having just been updated, after all) will indeed wait for Merom, and be a dual-core, 64-bit release. Seems more "PowerBook-y" to pack that...major bragging rights (FWIW): dual-core and 64-bit, plus whatever other goodies Apple packs in (HD, iSights, Mighty Mouse-inspired trackpad, new design, etc.).

In the meantime, the neglected (as of late) iBook can get a redesigned widescreen, thinner case, a nice Yonah, more Tiger-friendly graphics, 5400rpm hard drives, etc. and be quite the little performers we all knew they could be.
I agree with you: I own an old Dell latitude C610 p3 1ghz. Changing my configuration should not be realling interesting on a hardware side: i would keep ethernet 100, wifi 54, 512mB memory, 133Mhz bus, etc... I would only earn usb2, firewire and bluetooth but these technologies can be added on my laptop by cheap pccard.

And a ibook should be a downgrad on several points: no more trackpoint, hard disk smaller and slower. I want to get real hardware improvements, such as DVD burner, into a ibook 12".
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Roland
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Join Date: Nov 2004
 
2005-11-22, 15:02

I am a bit concerned about the rumored 200 USD price cut. I really don't want Apple to put out a celeron based notebook.

They should give Give the iBook nice Yonah chips and the PowerBook the Merom. We're crossing into 2006, I really can't bother with "slow" chips in consumer products anymore.

If they put out a very cheap notebook, than it should be something that is not really associated with the iBook line. Something like an iBook Mini (er.. just with a different name of course).

Also with Apple going black and white with their iPods, i still think that they are keeping the iBooks white, but maybe they are going to make the Powerbook black (hey why not?).
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PB PM
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2005-11-22, 18:48

One thing I hear from some PC users that they like about the ibook is that they aren't black or metal colours like every other notebook.
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Maciej
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-11-22, 21:25

That is a good point, clear white is distinguishable.
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Robo
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2005-11-23, 17:12

I've thought for a while that the Apple will switch to a white/silver/black "product matrix" (or at least a white/black line) as we switch to Intel.

G3/G4 era: Transclucent colors
G4/G5 era: White and silver
Intel era: ???

I'm not expecting the major change in design direction that the current Apple Age brought on, but I'm not expecting the Intel Powerbook to look identical, either. In 2005, Apple started using black a lot more than they did before on their website (the new Powerbook banner, the new iMac banner, the Tiger banners, the iPod nano banner...), on their packaging (the new iPods come in black boxes, Apple's pro apps come in black boxes) and now, iPods are available in black. I'm expecting Apple's Intel high-end to be black, too.

Desktops: Mac mini: white, Power Mac: black
Notebooks: iBook: white, Powerbook: black
All-in-ones: iMac: white, Possible Thirtieth Anniversary Macintosh: black

If Apple desides to fill the gaping hole in their desktop and (with no 12" Powerbook) notebook lines, they could give us silver Mac Cubes, Powerbook Ms, whatever.

If Apple introduced a sub-iBook notebook, I wouldn't be surprised to see it (and the future Mac mini) in colors. I think colors are okay for a consumer products, as the "iBook mini" certainly would be.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Alexia
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2005-11-25, 15:42

Am I the only one who doesn't want to see the possible new iBooks not go widescreen? I like 4:3 on my laptop.
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chucker
 
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2005-11-25, 15:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexia
Am I the only one who doesn't want to see the possible new iBooks not go widescreen?
Yes.

Quote:
I like 4:3 on my laptop.
You have nothing to gain from 4:3 and a lot to lose. Widescreen is conquering TFT displays fast, both for laptops and for desktops; because of that, 4:3 displays will in the long one become less economic as 16:10 ones simply due to lower volume. Some Mac OS X applications are even already designed with widescreen in mind.
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Alexia
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2005-11-25, 18:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Yes.



You have nothing to gain from 4:3 and a lot to lose. Widescreen is conquering TFT displays fast, both for laptops and for desktops; because of that, 4:3 displays will in the long one become less economic as 16:10 ones simply due to lower volume. Some Mac OS X applications are even already designed with widescreen in mind.
16:10 screens are actually cheaper to manufactuer because how they work out for the number of screens made from each wafer.

Some applications are, but websites are still designed for regular newspaper reading(think 10:16 ratio) simply because it is easier to read like that.

16:10 gives me no benefit unless I plan on having two websites open on half of the screen each and reading at the same time, which I have no intention of doing. Photoshop is easier in 16:10 because the palettes aren't in the way. 16:10 versus 4:3 really just says personal preference to me.
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Dave Hagan
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2005-11-25, 18:59

I am wondering if we will see less of the spinning beachball with Intel processors.
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