[psmith2.0]

Here's the deal: I spend most of my time in my bedroom (and I don't mean that in a stupid MTV "Cribs" kind of way, either). It's where my desk is, my guitar, my PowerBook, magazines, books, etc. all are and I just happen to like hanging out there more than any other room in the place.

I've got a cable jack in there and the whole bit, so how, exactly, would I go about piping that basic (72-plus channel...no premium, no satellite, no PPV, etc.) into there.

I will have a new 20" or 23" Cinema Display by autumn, I'm sure of it. If I could get "double duty" from such an expensive purchase (AND not have to find room for a standalone TV), I think that would push me to doing it all a bit quicker.

El Gato and Formac seem to be the two most-often-mentioned companies when it comes to this.

How, exactly, does this work? Their sites are big on specs, but short on actual "how to" info.

Does the cable come from the floor, to an El Gato or Formac box, then from that box to my Mac?

Do I use a remote control? Can I be sitting on my bed, from 6-8" away and control the channels, or do I have to get up and do it all from the keyboard?

And what, specifically, should I be looking for. As I said, I just have the basic extended Comcast service, so nothing fancy. No satellite or digital this and that. Just your regular cable most of you probably have.

Also, are there any shortcomings to this? Is my 1.25GHz PowerBook with 64MB graphics capable of doing this okay? Anything I should know, or any reason this isn't a good idea? I tend to think it's the perfect solution, really.

And I don't really care about recording or time-shifting or any sort of TiVO type of functionality. I simply want to be able to watch - on my PowerBook or new Cinema Display - the same exact channels I get in my living room.

What's the story? Surely this is easy.

[MacUsers]

Good question, would like to know myself.

[windowsblowsass]

cable companys are now required to carry firewire cable boxes. i have no idea how much one will be to rent but you can then usse vlc and another program to play tv on your mac. there was a an article on macosx hints awhile ago ill try to find it

[curiousuburb]

You could always get pick up an old PowerMac with an AV tuner card.
Might end up costing less than a high-end Formac, but it sounds like you don't need their top unit (which is more of a video-breakout solution than a simple tuner card and passthrough as would be the case with an old AV card.)

No real point being committed to driving it out digital, since the resolution and scan rate for tv are analog in most cases (usually unless explicitly specified as digital).

Your 20" Aluminum Cinema Display may be digital resolution capable beyond 1600 lines.
NTSC video will be 525 lines of resolution at 29.97 fps in two fields for alternating scan.
PAL would be 625 lines at 25 fps.
SeCAM users would be pitied or mocked.
All TV sources are 'underusing' the true capabilities of your ACD.

edit: hmmm... not sure if the old AV tuner would handle that many channels anyway

[psmith2.0]

The whole point is that I don't want MORE shit in my room. I want to simply use what I have (or will have, in terms of the 20" or 23" Cinema Display). Because of the size of the room, a tall cedar armoire that almost reaches the ceiling, etc., putting a separate TV in there is just not a possibility.

And getting ANOTHER computer - especially some old-ass tower that'll take up space I don't really have and introduce clutter I don't really want - is NOT in the cards.



That's the only reason I'm doing this, and I don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks to make it so. Like I said, it would make me feel better about shelling out $1299-1999 for a Cinema Display, since it would be performing two tasks.

And it's just regular analog cable, like I said in my original post. Nothing cute or fancy. I just wanna be able to watch a little TV, while in my room, on my PowerBook or Cinema Display when the mood strikes.

That's all. Nothing more complicated than that. No HD this, no recording (although if it's available, I might use it), etc. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel or outcool NASA. I just wanna be able to see Paige Davis or Alex Trebek on my PowerBook, okay?



Let's focus here on that, specifically.

I'm looking more at a simple "box" type of solution, like El Gato or Formac.

I just want to make sure it's do-able, without any back-end hassle. Is it as easy as plugging your cable wire into the box, then another cable from the box to the Mac? THAT'S what I really want to know...is it that simple and straightforward, or is there a bunch of workaround rigging I'd have to do?

[applenut]

I looked into this for my dorm room as I had no interest in further cluttering my small room with a tv and other devices. So I needed a device that would allow me to watch standard analog cable on my Powerbook G4/667.

This was last Christmas, so at the time, the options were a bit different. I looked at El Gato's EyeTV USB and Formac's TV/FM Studio DVR. The formac was attractive because it recorded directly into DV stream, had high quality, Video conversion in and out and an FM tuner as well. It also used firewire.

The EyeTV appeals to me because it was small, affordable (149 at the time with bundled Keyspan Remote), had better software and PVR function, and believe it or not, USB. I liked that it used USB because it used the smaller MPEG1 format. Yes, the quality is not as good as DV stream would be, but my Powerbook has a 30GB HD. With the EyeTV I would be able to actually use the PVR functions since an hour would only take up 600MB of drive space where as the Formac would take several GBs.

I decided to go with the EyeTV and have been extremely happy with it. The software works very well. The quality, MPEG1, is about the same as VHS and when viewed from my bed at school looks good, just not as sharp as a regular tv broacast. El Gato has been great at providing software updates and they have a good base of people who have added functionality to the software as well.

Now El Gato has released the EyeTV 200 and it addresses nearly all of the EyeTV USB's weaknesses like USB, MPEG1, etc.

It's a bit expensive though which is why I decided not to wait for it. But It sounds like it'd be better for you, especially with the cinema display. With that you'd plug your cable into it, a firewire cable would run to your powerbook and the software would display the channels. It's all compressed to MPEG 2 in real time so it takes up a bit more space than mine but is much better quality. And the best thing, it works just like a Tivo although it doesn't have the season pass feature tivo has.

[psmith2.0]

Awesome. Thank you, applenut. That's exactly the kind of "real life/here's the deal" response I was hoping for.



Yeah, the EyeTV thing - just looking at the specs and all - seems like a good one. It's $50 more than the Formac product, BUT it comes with a remote control, which matters if I'm going to be across the room.

It's $349 right now, I think, the EyeTV200. That was the one I figured would be right for me.

Are you thinking that the FireWire and mpeg2 stuff will result in a nicer look than the USB-based box you have? I considered getting a refurb EyeTV USB on their site (with Keyspan remote), but wasn't sure if there were drawbacks or if I'd regret not bumping up.

That's cool though...sounds easy, like hooking a VCR to your TV, right? In from the wall, out to the PowerBook...

I might go ahead and raid the Cinema Display fund and get this, so at least I can already get the TV in my room (albeit on a 15" screen, but that's cool). It'll just push the Cinema Display thing back a tad...

[applenut]

hmmm.....i remember seeing the EyeTV 200 for 299 but maybe it was a sale. I will say that 349 is overpriced but there are not many options and for 50 dollars more than the Formac solution id say it's money well spent.


The USB version is good. I'm a bit bias since I like it so much but I won't lie that the quality leaves a bit to be desired. For me its acceptable, especially since I use the Tivo functionality so much and record shows everyday and the lower data rates allow me to store more. But, as an everyday tv that will eventually be used on a cinema display i'd go for the MPEG 2 firewire version.

Really depends on what you want to spend and how much drive space you'll use.

If i were going for it today I'd choose the 200, although I don't know where I'd get the extra money

[Luca]

If it were me buying it, I'd get the Formac if it's actually less expensive. It uses Firewire and I think that maybe means it would allow the use of a game system without lag. From what I've heard, there will be lag with a USB one, but not with a Firewire one. Is this true?

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, if I poke around online some, I'm hoping perhaps I can beat that $349 listed on El Gato's site. That IS a tad steep, compared to the USB one. But hell, I know 6 months from now - with that big honkin' display and all - I will have appreciated going with that.

I'll see what's what out there...

But yeah, I've all but decided on the El Gato solution, as opposed to Formac.

[windowsblowsass]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Awesome. Thank you, applenut. That's exactly the kind of "real life/here's the deal" response I was hoping for. Yeah, the EyeTV thing - just looking at the specs and all - seems like a good one. It's $50 more than the Formac product, BUT it comes with a remote control, which matters if I'm going to be across the room. It's $349 right now, I think, the EyeTV200. That was the one I figured would be right for me. Are you thinking that the FireWire and mpeg2 stuff will result in a nicer look than the USB-based box you have? I considered getting a refurb EyeTV USB on their site (with Keyspan remote), but wasn't sure if there were drawbacks or if I'd regret not bumping up. That's cool though...sounds easy, like hooking a VCR to your TV, right? In from the wall, out to the PowerBook... I might go ahead and raid the Cinema Display fund and get this, so at least I can already get the TV in my room (albeit on a 15" screen, but that's cool). It'll just push the Cinema Display thing back a tad...

you want a box right then call up your cablr company and see if they carry firewire cable boxes the fcc mandated that they have to so they should have one theyll be cheap to rent and easy to use

[applenut]

Originally Posted by Luca If it were me buying it, I'd get the Formac if it's actually less expensive. It uses Firewire and I think that maybe means it would allow the use of a game system without lag. From what I've heard, there will be lag with a USB one, but not with a Firewire one. Is this true?

there's a lag on all of em. usb or firewire

[Luca]

Originally Posted by applenut there's a lag on all of em. usb or firewire

Ah, okay then. It seems like the EyeTV is more aimed at consumers, for the purpose of just watching TV. The Formac looks like it's aimed at people who want to do recording and editing and stuff.

I think what I was thinking of regarding lag was the Miglia TV tuner PCI card. Those run about $100 and have video inputs, and from what I've heard they don't give you a whole lot of lag (if any). But maybe they do, I'm not sure.

[psmith2.0]

Hey, I know I've just been focusing on EyeTV and Formac boxes, only because that's all I'm aware of.

Anyone have another company or product you'd recommend I take a look at? If not, it's looking like I'll be snagging the EyeTV 200, probably this week...

[applenut]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Hey, I know I've just been focusing on EyeTV and Formac boxes, only because that's all I'm aware of. Anyone have another company or product you'd recommend I take a look at? If not, it's looking like I'll be snagging the EyeTV 200, probably this week...

since it's a powerbook there aren't really any other options. the towers have a cheap and good 100 dollar solution. I've been waiting for a PC card solution but one has never come.

Eskape makes another USB option but its complete crap.

The only thing the EyeTV lacks that the formac has is video out. Which is unfortunate but doesn't sound like you'll need it. Plus, you're powerbook has s-video out which is basically the same thing the formac would provide you with.

You'll like the EyeTV 200

I would agree with everything said about EyeTV. I have used the EyeTV USB for about the last 1 1/2 years. I have nothing but grand things to say about it. With the KEYSPAN remote, it is a TIVO that can play Unreal Tourney!!!

I find the quality it sufficient for TV viewing and archiving to DVD/CD, and being able to have TIVO functions without the subscription is SWEET.

I give EyeTV and the folks at El Gato 5 Stars for almost everything. Great customer service, and a great product. I LOVE IT.

If I wasn't so contected with my EyeTV USB, I would get out and buy a EyeTV 200, but why question a good thing.

[Paul]

windowsblowsass:
the cable box solution is nice if your cable company requires you to have a cable box to de-scramble your cable signal (like TimeWarner does). It should work fine and all you would have to buy is a remote to control VLC, but I'm guessing Paul's Comcast plan doesn't require a box and makes getting an eyeTV MUCH more attractive. Up at BC we have comcast and it worked with my eyeTV (usb) very nicely.

However it might actually be CHEAPER to switch to digital cable and get a firewire box from Comcast, the downside being complexity (not much, but more then elgato) due to the fact that it would require more hardware. (A cable box for each TV that you want to use.)

Let me see if I can find the macosxhint article...
found it: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...re +cable+box

ummm, it is for HDTV... so it isn't what Paul is looking for in the short-term but 3-5 years from now it might be a better option...

[windowsblowsass]

that guy was saying you can use it for hdtv but you can just use it as a normal tuner

[psmith2.0]

Being as I'm right on the cusp of getting this (EyeTV 200), I did have a FireWire-related question:

This box, the 200, takes the cable signal, then goes out, via FireWire, to my PowerBok.

Does this mean I can no longer keep my iPod docked 24/7? Obviously it does, since there is only one FireWire 400 port of my PowerBook.

What would be my options here?

Furthermore, what about when I get my Cinema Display? Because of the break-out cable thing, it looks as though my sole FireWire 400 port will be needed by the Cinema Display. Can I plug the EyeTV thing inoto the back of my Cinema Display?

But until that day comes, I'm more concerned about the iPod thing.

There's a second FireWire port on the back of the EyeTV 200 box. Would that act like a daisy-chained hub or something?



Do I just need to shut up and get a FireWire 400 hub (3-4 ports)?

[Escher]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Can I plug the EyeTV thing inoto the back of my Cinema Display? There's a second FireWire port on the back of the EyeTV 200 box. Would that act like a daisy-chained hub or something? Do I just need to shut up and get a FireWire 400 hub (3-4 ports)?

I would think so.
I would think so.
Yes.

Escher

[Paul]

if there is a second port on the eyeTV you can daisy chain without a problem
the same (should) be true for the cinema display, plug the display directly into the powerbook and plug the eyeTV into the display. The iPod could be plugged into either the eyeTV or display.

OR you could just get a 800-400 adapter and use that until you have a use for the firewireB port... didn't one come with the new powerbooks that have IEEE1394b?

[curiousuburb]

Hubzilla!

[psmith2.0]

Thanks, Escher and Paul. I just simply haven't had as much experience with FireWire as much as I have USB (hubs and whatnot) and wasn't 100% sure on the whole hub/daisychain aspect of that particular technology. I was HOPING it would be as simple and straightforward as Paul says, just wasn't sure and wanted to hear someone actually confirm it.



So that's good news. Looks like I'm not out anything. And yes, I forgot all about that adapter in my PowerBook box. I'm what you might call a "dork".



Gonna order the EyeTV 200 this week...the thought of being able to record "The Shield" and "Rescue Me" and other favorite shows (and whack out the commercials) is kinda neat! Now I don't ever have to worry about being out and missing an episode of something I wanted to see.

I'm easily impressed/amused...

Curiousburb, I saw that in Macworld a while back. It would scare me at night.

[Ebby]

I have a Hollywood DV bridge that converts component/S-video to firewire and have that hooked up to my VCR. I don't have cable, but this works for normal over-the-air TV. I just bought the EyeTV 500 (HDTV tuner) for digital broadcasts and it should be in the mail soon. (they are kinda backordered right now) It seems that the software is pretty much the same for all their TV hardware, and it seems straightforward and simple to use. The only thing I didn't get was a sense of how big of footprint the device has. I E-Mailed tech support and they were not only thorough, but replied [b]faster than I could set up a E-Mail filter to catch it![/i] I already liked the company but that sealed the deal.

[psmith2.0]

It's about 6" x 8", isn't it? I downloaded one of those PDFs for the 200 and I think that was the size, more or less.

I had to convert from centimeters...but that's what Art Directors Toolkit is for!

[Escher]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Curiousburb, I saw that in Macworld a while back. It would scare me at night.

pscates: I remember seeing a Rubber Duckie FW hub. Maybe that one would be more appropriate for you. (Seriously, I almost bought the Duckie one for myself. Don't like dinos.)

Escher

[fulmer]

I've been using a Canopus ADVC 200 with my G5. It's awesome! It hooks up via FW400. The only thing I don't like about it is no full screen video. It may not be avaliable worldwide... I don't find it listed on the US Canopus website.

[psmith2.0]

Well on a totally cool note, as I just woke up to follow the keynote (like the dork that I am), I saw on MacMinute where Elgato just dropped the price of the EyeTV 200 from $349 to $299!



AND is planning a major software update to allow direct export to iMovie, iDVD, etc.

Glad I didn't buy this yet...$50 is $50!

[Escher]

Nice! Maybe I need to get one too. I just have to wire some coax to the office first.

Escher

[Ebby]

The software update is free, and out today. Just FYI.