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Scene 38
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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: I'm here
 
2019-07-16, 16:06

For Ep IV fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k

Have you seen it? What did you think?

This is canon for me now... it’s a great example of how the originals should have been improved.

All I want is a simple life
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-16, 17:05

Wow. Thanks for posting that. I never did like that lightsaber battle in Ep IV, especially in the wake of later movies. That video definitely demonstrates an area that could be rebuilt and made so much better. That was, like, a thousand times better.

You know, one of the finest, most brilliantly filmed scenes in the entire Star wars universe is Darth Vader slicing through the rebel troops at the end of Rogue One. It really demonstrated Vader's anger and power. This remake does that, too. It shows Vader as an angry, spiteful has-been out to rule the universe while letting nothing stand in his way, even the emperor.

The thing I hated the most about the first 2.75 episodes of the prequels was the way Vader was painted as a whiny bitch rather than a power mad villain in the making. The tail end of Episode 3 and Rogue One brought the real Darth Vader back to life. This Scene 38 thing accomplishes that as well, and I loved it!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-07-16, 18:10

I don't especially like the VO overlaid from EpIII, but I wouldn't have minded a line like "You were my Master, and you betrayed me" line in EpIV before cutting Obi-Wan down. That would've sent my 10yr old mind reeling. Imagine how much richness that would have added to the story in V and VI. Hindsight yada yada, but still.

This is pretty fucking great, technically. An extended battle sequence should've always been in the original, including force-pushes. *sigh* Again, hindsight.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2019-07-16 at 18:23.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-07-16, 18:39

On my 37th viewing though. So fucking good.
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kscherer
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2019-07-16, 18:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
On my 37th viewing though. So fucking good.
Nerd!

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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-07-16, 18:56

Are you not thrilled by those punches? That shit makes it for me. 👊 👊 👊
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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: I'm here
 
2019-07-16, 21:41

Fucking great ‘eh?

The pent-up aggression as Vader strides to battle literally explodes in an orgy of punches, a head butt, sabre throwing and a foreshadowing of ESB - let me distract you with these clunky objects whilst I fight you.

How good was the way he force removed his lightsaber from next to ObiWan... he could have retracted it clean, but fuck that... “I’m going to swipe right first and see if I can decapitate that old man whilst he’s on the ground!”

Brutal.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-07-16, 23:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Are you not thrilled by those punches? That shit makes it for me. 👊 👊 👊
Oh, hell yeah I am!

That's precisely the way I thought about Vader as a kid. In fact, all the way up until Episode 1 stole his aggressive nature. Just the way he choked the life out of the rebel pilot set the tone for the entire saga. Lucas either blew it, or he had no money for a choreographer for Scene 38. It came off as weak then, and looks like crap today.

Lucas should have put his money into this redux rather than the horrible, Sucks-O-Ton Jabba sequence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+ View Post
Brutal.
Vader!

He was my least favorite character because he was so evil. I hated Vader! The least cool kids got picked to be Vader because everyone hated him. We didn't hate him because he was the "bad guy", we hated him because he was so bad! Ep V built on that. He was terrifying. Ep VI brought his human side forward and we empathized with him. Ep 1 made him a whiny little kid. Ep II made him Padme's bitch. By Ep III he was intolerable.

Until the Mustafar battle.

Finally, Vader was Vader, again! Mean, filled with hatred, sadistic, bent on revenge for imagined wrongs (although I think the lead-up to that is missing entirely—he just snapped for no reason. In this post I outlined how I thought it should go). He was the guy you wanted to see die; who deserved everything bad that happened to him. I mean, he wiped out a bunch of children and choked the hell out of his own wife. That scene is the only thing about the prequels that is believable. It made Vader Vader!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-07-16 at 23:38.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-07-17, 14:42

It sure would have been nice to see that in the original movie! Nice find Mac+!
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-17, 20:29

I'll be the one to say it: I don't like it.

Sure, this is an impressive technical marvel (or one might say a technological terror?) of CG edits, but almost everything about it feels out of place and, frankly, like a bad fan edit especially when spliced alongside the original footage. Purely technical issues aside (hard matte lines, Sir Alec's floating face, inconsistent motion blur, inconsistent costumes, unrealistic lighting), most of the performance, camera direction, some of the pacing, and the general theme of this act still feel just wrong to me.

It seems very out of character for Obi-Wan at this age and in the context of A New Hope to be so relatively spry and strong in a fight. It reminds me of the grasshopper-like bounding around the room that Yoda does in Episode II before slowly picking back up his cane. I suspect fans will defend that scene as showing the power of the midichlorians Force overcoming the frailty of one's corporeal body, but it contrasts far too starkly with everything else we've seen about the character that it breaks the suspension of disbelief and turns what could be a tense sequence into a cartoon for me. I guess we're supposed to expect characters to turn into CG ragdolls once a fight breaks out nowadays. I felt distinct twinges of that Yoda vs. Dooku nonsense when seeing this version of Obi-Wan fighting with such resolve.

The camera work feels nothing like what you'd find in the 70s or 80s. Sweeping low dramatic angles, gradual orbiting pans, slow almost-dolly zooms, Zach Snyder-y speed ramping, nothing staying still — these are all modern styles that were rare if not completely absent from the era of the original Star Wars. Maybe a closer imitation of the classic cinematography would make this feel less like an awkward cut-and-paste job.

I would have loved to see a more authentic, stylistically conservative take on an extended Obi-Wan vs. Darth encounter. Something like that would take an extra mastery of the art since it's so easy to fall into the trappings of modern cinema and computer animation.

I'm sure this kid will fit right in at JJ Abrams' School of Novice Lens Flares, though. This entry might get him bumped up the early admission line!



edit: Curmudgeonly ranting aside, thanks for sharing this, Mac+.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-07-17, 21:11

I can see where you are coming from, Brad. I don't much care for the CGI, either, but I love the far more aggressive Darth Vader. That's the thing that gets me. I love the original Star Wars, but that one scene never quite worked for me. All the build-up to the sword fighting Jedi and Syth, and we get two old farts shaking sticks at each other? Never felt right. The lightsaber duals of later episodes were far more fun to watch, and much more intensive.

And, you are right. It would take a true artist to re-film that scene and make it work in the original film. Still, I think it could be done. Episode V is proof of that. Vader straight up kicked Luke's ass once he got rolling.

And yes, *gasp* I would be all-in with a complete remake (*gasp*) of the original film using modern tech and actors groomed for the roles. Yes, I know that will roll some eyes, but there isn't another movie in the history of movies I would rather see remade*.

* Following the exact same script, exact same scenes, exact same music. No deviation. But with quality acting, and quality choreography!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-07-18 at 23:26.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2019-07-17, 23:10

It's really fun.

I think that somewhere between this and the original is where I fall on the scale.

(saw you post this on Twitter and quietly thought to myself "you don't need to watch it again, go do your work")


...

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PB PM
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2019-07-17, 23:22

I think I like some aspects of the concept. I like how it shows Vader's hate for Obi-Wan, and particularly the increased emphases on Vader's surprise at his disappearance, then sudden realization at the end of what he had done after hearing the voice. Beyond that it was just overdone CGI that takes away from the simplicity of the original that drew people to it in the first place.

Quote:
Following the exact same script, exact same scenes, exact same music. No deviation. But with quality acting, and quality choreography!
Sadly there is no way that some new director wouldn't want to introduce their own "image" of Star Wars, it must be darker, get rid of any optimism, and the concept of "Good/Light" and Evil/Dark, in the film! Not to mention that Disney would want to pump it full of new music and more because, action figure sales, and other such things.
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spotcatbug
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2019-07-18, 08:37

This is really cool, but, like Brad, I see it failing as a replacement for the original scene. But, I think that's not really the point. It clearly wasn't meant to be a drop-in replacement. If you look at it as its own thing, it works a lot better.

When I watch Episode IV, I always watch the "revisited" version*. In fact, that's the version I have on my Plex server, listed as "Star Wars: A New Hope" (along side the "special edition" versions of the other episodes.) I particularly like the changes made to the duel in the "revisited" version (faster pace, etc.) And, obviously, the scene fits into the rest of the movie correctly - the scene wasn't "revisited" by completely remaking it with CGI.


* I wanted to provide a link, but my lazy Googling didn't pop it right up, so I bailed for work. It should be fairly easy to find for somebody that needs it, though.

Ugh.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-07-18, 23:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Sadly there is no way that some new director wouldn't want to introduce their own "image" of Star Wars, it must be darker, get rid of any optimism, and the concept of "Good/Light" and Evil/Dark, in the film! Not to mention that Disney would want to pump it full of new music and more because, action figure sales, and other such things.
Which is why I said what I said. It simply wouldn't work unless the original pace was held all the way through, except for that one scene. No CGI, just real sets and good choreography. Yes, Obiwan is getting old, but he is a Jedi! He should act like one. And Vader should be freakin' mad!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2019-07-19, 13:25

I think it's better to view it as an Animatic of how that scene could be re-shot.


BUT: Do we really want to encourage editing that movie yet again? Hasn't enough damage already been done?
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-07-19, 13:35

I would agree that we shouldn't suggest the movie be edited yet again. I think of it more like what it should have been to begin with. The intensity of the fight in this cut would have fit better than the original.

Then again, all through the original and Ep 5 and 6 Vader wasn't exactly Mr Animated. While his anger to Obi Wan was real, Vader wasn't "aggressive" in his actions until they created Ep 3.

Still, I like the fight scene in this cut better. Seems more fitting without all the other movie context out there.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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kscherer
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2019-07-19, 13:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I think it's better to view it as an Animatic of how that scene could be re-shot.


BUT: Do we really want to encourage editing that movie yet again? Hasn't enough damage already been done?
I wouldn't want them to edit it in, honestly. I agree with Turtle: It's more about what could have been than what we should do. "What we should do" is remake the entire film from the ground up. Purists would grumble, but I would bet all my marbles it would make a billion dollars worldwide.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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PB PM
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2019-07-19, 15:34

Disney already made their version of A New Hope, it’s called “The Force Awakens “.
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kscherer
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2019-07-19, 15:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Disney already made their version of A New Hope, it’s called “The Force Awakens “.
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PB PM
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2019-07-19, 16:56

Funny, but sadly true.
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