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MC: Rail Transport
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 10:36

Fucking rails. How do they work?

Hopefully we can suss that out before we get a we get all octopi about it.

Firstly I think we need to decide on a central terminal in Bridgeport. As it is now we have the beginnings of one below the cobble stairs, but in looking at it I'm not sure if it'll be big enough. Also, I wonder if it shouldn't be skyway-level as to not have to create upward boosters for every long run.



Maybe at the top of the stairs so we can still easily connect the Arena run and still have the stairway down to BP?

Figure it should be big enough to accommodate enough runs E&W, though I'm not sure how many that should be.


Myself, I'd like to build the Greyline somewhat like this:



I'll need to get clearance from a couple of people in order to build around existing structures, of course, but that brings me to the question of sub-stations as well. I plan on building a small sub-station at my place that could be used by Robo and arteggio if they desire to build lines out to their NW structures, but I wonder about how many sub-stations people are going to want. I don't plan on stopping the Greyline anywhere between BP and Flaming Mtn, but I can see where it may be wanted.

I *think* I'm going to build the line next to the skyway to take advantage of the existing lighting, but I'd like to hear other opinions on building below/above/whatever.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2011-04-27 at 10:46.
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-04-27, 10:58

I'm personally for sub-skyway rails, but that's just my double-decker preference. I'm not opposed to it being anywhere else around the skyway outside my areas, and beside-skyway would save on lighting.

Though in Bridgeport and the metro area there seem to be a lot of skyway off-ramps; I imagine building beside the skyway in this area would necessitate a lot of going around things.

I think I would appreciate a substation at Flaming Mountain, for heading out west. I was thinking that if you were opposed to a substation and another rail headed SW from BP to the Furronia area, I could just extend that out my way but that would miss the park I have out there. It would take me a while to bother building that track though. Perhaps you'll figure out a modular-sort of design so that you don't have to leave your station wide open until I'll for sure use it.

Maybe we could also set up a rail testing site somewhere, if that makes any sense, to try to get a grasp on this rail business. With the inclusion of power rails in 1.5 did the whole power-cart thing become much more simplified? In 6 months I never figured out how to use Bryson's booster station.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 11:19

A train station in Bridgeport would be super keen. I was thinking about building one, as a medium-ish project, before I just decided to build the super huge project I really wanted to build first. I think any sort of skyway-level structure in Bridgeport would look really weird, though. At the very least, all the people near the structure would have to be okay with losing a big chunk of their view of the sky.

And since 709 is taking the grey line ( ) and Rowdy has already called lime, I guess I'll stake my claim on orange for any eventual weretrain. If that's, you know, a thing we can do.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-04-27, 11:26

I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.

I saw some interesting youtube videos about using old-style booster tracks in conjunction with the new booster tracks that seem to work very well: the newer tracks work better in terms of reliability and switching, but the old boosters still have the edge on raw power.

I do think we should take a more wholistic approach to designing the system, though. Later today I'll break out the big map and rough in some east-west, south-north lines and a Bridgeport loop, maybe.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 11:26

I'm hoping it won't be a monstrous structure or anything. Figure we need 6-8 lines east and west tops, so if that's a 1 block wide track with and extra block on the side for power, the starting track width at the station would be 12-16 blocks wide. Not huge, but if it looks like it may be an eyesore we could build it 2-stories and serve 3-4 tracks E/W per floor. Or something.

So it goes.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 11:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
And since 709 is taking the grey line ( ) and Rowdy has already called lime, I guess I'll stake my claim on orange for any eventual weretrain. If that's, you know, a thing we can do.
You took #13 for a mailbox, so let's call it even.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 11:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.
I looked over there earlier today and thought it would be a good spot as well, but wasn't sure about the upward boosters. I'm all for that area if you and everyone else is.

So it goes.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 11:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.
That's what I was thinking, but IIRC Brad said he had plans for that area. I do agree we should build it on the ground.

Wholistic approaches are good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
I'm hoping it won't be a monstrous structure or anything. Figure we need 6-8 lines east and west tops, so if that's a 1 block wide track with and extra block on the side for power, the track width would be 12-18 blocks wide. Not huge, but if it looks like it may be an eyesore we could build it 2-storys and serve 3-4 tracks E/W per floor. Or something.
I think a station on the ground would allow us to make a more elegant structure that actually felt like an interesting part of Bridgeport in its own right, like the airport, rather than a purely utilitarian hub. (I was interested in building a train station before I even knew Minecraft had trains.) We'd also have more room for any potential expansion, and there's also the possibility that some people might want to build tracks on or under the ground, crazy as it is.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 11:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
You took #13 for a mailbox, so let's call it even.


If you want #13, we can switch. No, wait — I'll sell it to you for 13 slimeballs.

/ass
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-04-27, 12:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
That's what I was thinking, but IIRC Brad said he had plans for that area.
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.

But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 12:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.
Lucky Brad with all the prime real estate. You could always just tell me what you want to build there and I could help you find another spot... Besides, you totally owe me one secret now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?
If that's what I'm thinking of, 709 started by saying he didn't think it would be big enough, and I'd agree. It might be big enough if all we wanted was a hub for tracks, but if we wanted to build a train station that actually felt like part of the town, a la airport, I think we'd need more space, no?

But we don't want to take your spot. There's still space between my house and Old Towne, and that's at a skyway intersecton, not just an east-west skyway. Maybe that could be an okay place?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
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2011-04-27, 12:56

I've said it before - we'd be better served by something akin to the Skytrain in Vancouver, which has lines that loop from a central station (and another connecting station on the newest line, aptly named Bridgeport) out to various suburbs, etc.

The downside to this is that we don't all get our own individual lines. The upside is that we don't have said individual lines making an absolute mess of a station with all sorts of things coming out every possible direction.

Bryson already knows the layout I mean, but here's a link for the rest of you. Linky

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 13:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.

But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?
I gave my reservations earlier about the exiting station, so, why not spawn area? It would make sense.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 13:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
I gave my reservations earlier about the exiting station, so, why not spawn area? It would make sense.
That's suddenly the most obvious location ever.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-04-27, 13:15

Before we start steaking out lines and colors, I think we should decide on some main routes with primary colors. If we all just connect lines of our choosing from our compounds to Grand Central in Bridgeport, we're going to end up with something even more discombobulated and inconsistent than our current skyway system.

The way I see it there are three main routes we need. To the east there's the N/S skyway which runs along Old Towne and connects to the Airport, my castle, the Skyscraper, Turtle's compound (both of them), and the Hosket Rink. There's a similar N/S route in the west which goes from the passive trap to the UFO. I think these should be the Blue and Red lines respectively. The route linking them through Bridgeport is possibly the most heavily traveled route on the map, I think we should call this the Purple Line, as it links the Red and the Blue. (Also, Purple is Pretty ) It would be the main line connected to the "hub" in Bridgeport, and there would be shorter express routes which will probably pop up all around that area, given how densely populated it is. (For example, there should be an express line from the hub to the spawn. Not that this is a huge walk but that line should also probably extend to the grinder.)

If think if we put those routes in place, everyone will be relatively close to a main line, and they can connect up their own lines as they see fit. What we don't want is a Skytrain with a central hub in Bridgeport that radiates out willy-nilly, because then you have to go through Bridgeport whenever you want to go anywhere that's on a different line.

Also... I don't think we should use the Spawn as the central hub. Due to beds, I haven't spawned there in weeks. We should use Bridgeport, as I imagine it's the most common spawning location besides our beds in our distant compounds. The spawn is really only the spawn for new players, and they don't need to be hoppin' on the express line to the outer rim right when they show up.

Also, I say we double deck the skyways. I don't want to be staring at rock the whole time I'm riding the train, and if you put it underground you are sure to hit people's mines.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope

Last edited by Kraetos : 2011-04-27 at 13:40.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 13:20

I initially thought of going underwater/underground. Believe it. But above or below it's just a matter of approval. Hopefully we work something out.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-04-27, 13:21

Sorry, I must have overlooked the mention about the existing BP station being too small. Roughly how big are you thinking in surface area?

Spawn area seems okay. Whereabouts the spawn are you thinking? It can't cover spawn directly because you can't build in the spawn protection area (around where the welcoming platform is) and because you don't want people spawning in or on top of the station itself. Maybe immediately east of spawn, between the skyway entry tower and the water dong? Or on the beach north of the tower (where the cake portal is currently located)?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 13:28

I was thinking bbsky's island, if only for aesthetics.
  quote
arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-04-27, 13:32

Or what about directly above the current station, either beside the staircase or maybe tucked a bit behind it, underneath the skyway. It's not a ground station, but I'm sure it could be done nicely.

I vote for Kraetos' layout: that would call for one line (Purple) running W-E, so the station could be pretty condensed, with only one train west and one train east.

Then, those of us away from BP can branch our lines of Red and Blue. I like this.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 13:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
What we don't want is a Skytrain with a central hub in Bridgeport that radiates out willy-nilly, because then you have to go through Bridgeport whenever you want to go anywhere that's on a different line.
But that's if the spokes have no wheel. Say we lay it out as a box around Bridgeport with a + crossing Bridgeport in the middle, making a rough 2x2 grid. Three east/west tracks (north, Bridgeport, south) and three north/south tracks (east, Bridgeport, west). Or your

||

idea, with a sideways H laid on top of it. That would make six primary lines, and they could be Red, Yellow, Green, Blue, White, and Black. White and Black could be the routes that intersect in Bridgeport. (Purple wouldn't make as much sense if there was more than one route that connected Red and Blue.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos
Also... I don't think we should use the Spawn as the central hub. Due to beds, I haven't spawned there in weeks. We should use Bridgeport, as I imagine it's the most common spawning location besides our beds in our distant compounds. The spawn is really only the spawn for new players, and they don't need to be hoppin' on the express line to the outer rim right when they show up.
Forgive me if my geography is all wrong, but isn't Bridgeport eventually going to grow closer to spawn? I'm not sure how much farther people are going to want to push into the east, it turns into a desert and runs into Old Towne and that gets farther and farther away from the post office.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-04-27, 13:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
But that's if the spokes have no wheel. Say we lay it out as a box around Bridgeport with a + crossing Bridgeport in the middle. Three east/west tracks (north, Bridgeport, south) and three north/south tracks (east, Bridgeport, west). Or your

||

idea, with a sideways H laid on top of it.
That was my original idea. A box with a cross. (Seriously, this is exactly what I originally came up with, with Yellow for the south edge, Green for the north, and Teal for the N/S cross.) But I think that it's needlessly complicated. Would the upper and lower E/W routes get used much at all? We can add them as necessary but the H is simple, and easily expandable. I think we should start as simple as possible and then only build additional routes as needed.

Also, I know Brad had plans for that space and I hate suggest we should take it, but that space really is perfect. Its elevated, it's right under what would be the purple line, and its right next to the skyway terminus. Building it near the spawn means building a whole lot of new skypassages, and I think that would be rather ugly to have so much crap in the air right near the spawn and the Capitol.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
  quote
RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
Send a message via AIM to RowdyScot Send a message via Skype™ to RowdyScot 
2011-04-27, 13:45

You know what would be nice for planning? The whole world overhead map annotated with every known spot. We can decide what spots get stops and plan a system from that.

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 13:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
That was my original idea. A box with a cross. But I think that it's needlessly complicated. Would the upper and lower E/W routes get used much at all? We can add them as necessary but the H is simple, and easily expandable.
On a 2x2 grid, going straight across the top from one top corner (the UFO?) to the other (the hockey rink?) takes half as much time as going halfway down, then across, than back up. I think it's fairly inevitable that people are going to eventually be building things closer to due north and south of Bridgeport; we don't want to keep expanding the map and those rails would encourage us to use those parts of the map that we already have.

I'm not saying we have to build the additional three lines first, or anything, but I think we should allow for a future N/S-through-Bridgeport line in our station plans. At the very least, I don't think we should call the "bridging" line Purple, as if it'll always be the only one. (White would be my pick for the W/E line through Bridgeport. I mean, just look at the word: WhitE. And then Black could be the eventual corresponding N/S line.)

And yes, I'm overthinking this. But I'm a branding geek and a transit geek. Let me have my fun

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-04-27, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
On a 2x2 grid, going straight across the top from one top corner (the UFO?) to the other (the hockey rink?) takes half as much time as going halfway down, then across, than back up. I think it's fairly inevitable that people are going to eventually be building things closer to due north and south of Bridgeport; we don't want to keep expanding the map and those rails would encourage us to use those parts of the map that we already have.
Understandable. The problem I encountered with the outside W/E lines is that their placement isn't as obvious as the N/S lines. I think we should stick with the H and when it becomes necessary (because, I agree with you: it will) to build more E/W lines, we can.

Quote:
I'm not saying we have to build the additional three lines first, or anything, but I think we should allow for a future N/S-through-Bridgeport line in our station plans. At the very least, I don't think we should call the "bridging" line Purple, as if it'll always be the only one. (White would be my pick for the W/E line through Bridgeport. I mean, just look at the word: WhitE. And then Black could be the eventual corresponding N/S line.)
But... PURPLE!!

(Sorry, but those are the only purple smilies )

At the end of the day I don't really care about the colors, but I thought that having the purple line connect the red and blue lines was clever. I also love purple. Although I will admit: the White Line sounds pretty cool. I would go either way.

Don't get me wrong, robo, I think that your ideas are great and they're basically exactly how I would layout this system. But I strongly believe we should add lines as necessary, rather than simply laying track everywhere. Better to start simple and iterate then go all out and have to change it later I'd rather have an elegant skyrail that hits key locations than a complicated one that goes to every nook and cranny on the map.

Although, I don't think that an N/S line crossing Bridgeport is necessary. The Blue Line is right there. I think we should be trying to limit the amount of wood in the sky for aesthetic purposes.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope

Last edited by Kraetos : 2011-04-27 at 14:26.
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-04-27, 14:29

Why not underground?
Think of the thrill of plowing through mobs of zombehs at 100k an hour!!!

Make the tracks out of light blue wool! Wait, that burns. Wait, wood burns too...




...
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 14:29

ffsake. My theads are fucking cursed.

How about this: Let's all decide where the central station is. First and foremost, that's the beginning of everything, so lets do this first.

I vote spawn area. I'd do a poll, but apparently I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

So it goes.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-04-27, 14:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Why not underground?
Think of the thrill of plowing through mobs of zombehs at 100k an hour!!!
Because there is stuff underground. Stuff you generally can't see until after you've busted a hole in it. Someone, I forget who, tried to build a tunnel system under Bridgeport a while back, only to realize it wasn't practical because there is stuff under Bridgeport.

The sky, on the other hand, is empty and predictable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
ffsake. My theads are fucking cursed.
What, you expect us to agree on things?



I would strongly vote against the spawn because it's not really "the spawn" anymore, and it would mean building a new W/E skyway, when there's a perfectly good one hardly 50 blocks to the north.

@robo: what happened to your last post? I really liked it.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-27, 14:44

Exactly. Fuck it. We should all just build out willy-nilly in the same way other's have have stretched out the world.

I'm stupid sometimes. Let the octopi begin!

So it goes.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-27, 14:46

I really think that the line that goes by my places needs to be dark green. More shell like you know!

So other than that I'm not really weighing () in on this because I'm kinda focused on my finals right now.

Off-topic (click to toggle):
I did pass my Security+ exam today though! In fact I did really well I think. One less final I have for college now. My Security Prof said if we take the exam and pass we won't have to take his final.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-27, 14:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
@robo: what happened to your last post? I really liked it.
I deleted it as being too wordy and embarassingly OCD and not responding to the things you edited into your post, but now I regret it. I saw that you quoted it and I rushed to tell you to not delete the quote and I was too late. I should have copied and pasted it from your quote before it was too late.

Anyway, yeah. N/S lines: Red in the west, Green in the east (for a variety of geeky reasons). W/E lines: White in the center, Yellow in the north (proposed), Blue in the south (proposed). Secondary and tertiary colors are free for building off the "primary" system as users see fit.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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