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MC: Rail Transport
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-04-30, 01:36

I fitted the Arena-Bridgeport mini-line with boosters. It needs some prettying up - I didn't have the right naterials on me - but it works!
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-04-30, 07:47

What's that? The server's been updated for about 10 hours now and no foundation has been broken for a train station? Not even a consensus on location?



The main lines and their colors are determined, right?

So, it is my opinion that a definitive poll should be in order for where to build the main station. Once the votes are in from all players, the station location has been chosen. No more of this 3-page currency-style nanny business!

Then we figure out how the main tracks will be put together: two blocks wide, one for track, one beside it for lights; or three blocks wide, one side lights, the other side wool, etc.

Then, we figure out where the main tracks will be positioned starting concentrically from the BP station and going outward: underground for some of the lines, above ground for others, a couple alongside the skyway...

I'm pretty eager to get this system up and running!

PS: The Arena line was cool! I suppose we should try to plan powered rails outside of diagonals though, or just avoid diagonal lines altogether, for the sake of aesthetics.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-30, 08:59

So I'm building my personal line do from my "T" ranch to my BP home. It's underground and I'm thinking it'll come to connect my home without much meandering....I didn't really map it out too well before starting.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-04-30, 09:02

Your T ranch is the place far, far east? I look forward to taking a cart to and from there, after walking it once.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-30, 09:09

The Turtle National Park is east of the "T" ranch. There is a rail system in place right now there. You have to go below ground and pass under my drowning trap. The entrance is behind there. On the Park side, there's a ladder at the base of the skyway stairs that takes you to the tunnel.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-04-30, 09:29

I donned the x-ray pack you linked to (thanks for that, even though it gave me a headache ) earlier today and poked around. There's a lot going on underneath Bridgeport, so the East/West line may be a challenge to configure unless we go kind of deep (~20 blocks?). I like the idea of having the main station next to Robo's at the tower intersection, or if we have to go deep there's also the unused area across from the theatre (next to the tree farm) that may work nicely as an entrance.

So it goes.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-30, 16:06

So I've finished my Dark Green run. I know there is a major community effort, but I was doing this for me and figured I'd make it some everyone could use it if they wish.


This allows the launch and stop at the start point. You don't have to get out if you want to run again.


The access to the Park launch is via a ladder at the base of the stairs coming off of the skyway. So, the long stretch goes under my skyway directly.

It is totally underground and ready to go. Please do replace the minecarts after using them. I'm also very open to a connection with the community rail system in BP, otherwise this entrance should do for now. It sure does making the run from one are to the other a snap! Lit well enough and underground so weather and baddies won't get to you.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-04-30, 16:26

Actually, having upgraded the Arena-Brideport line, I realise now that the launchers are very compact. They could be made compact enough to fit in the existing station structure, especially if we went triple-decker with it. (It already has two levels.)

For the long, long routes (like Turtles) then old-style glitch-driven boosters would be a good idea along the way as the speed advantage over "proper" boosters is significant. The proper boosters make for much more reliable launching systems, though.
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-04-30, 16:40

I enjoyed my first modern-cart ride through your tunnel, turtle. It was great to cut that time down from 10 to 2 minutes.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-30, 16:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
...

For the long, long routes (like Turtles) then old-style glitch-driven boosters would be a good idea along the way as the speed advantage over "proper" boosters is significant. The proper boosters make for much more reliable launching systems, though.
My concern about that is I can imagine the glitches being fixed leaving a slow cart and retro fitting.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-04-30, 17:23

Well, no-one says you have to take out the "proper" boosters. Just add glitch boosters as a speed booster.
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-04-30, 17:27

One thing that the proper boosters bring is that you no longer have to have perpetual motion machines to get cart delivery, retrieval etc to happen...
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-04-30, 17:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
One thing that the proper boosters bring is that you no longer have to have perpetual motion machines to get cart delivery, retrieval etc to happen...
I agree. Proper boosters are much tidier. I'm glad we have them, now.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-04-30, 23:08

I'd consider doing a booster cart exploiting a glitch in the game, if I can make it tidy. Sad I know, but you can't see my redstone torches in my tunnel because I'm just like that. Maybe one day I'll find a glitch exploit booster cart method that doesn't look like crap.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-05-01, 00:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I'd consider doing a booster cart exploiting a glitch in the game, if I can make it tidy. Sad I know, but you can't see my redstone torches in my tunnel because I'm just like that. Maybe one day I'll find a glitch exploit booster cart method that doesn't look like crap.
detector rail setup to send an empty cart back along a glitch booster track. no need for inclines. can be built into the wall...
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-05-01, 00:12

Got a link for me to see what you're referring to? Sorry but I'm getting prepped for two finals and not planning to search out much that isn't grade related at this point. Next test is Monday.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-05-01, 10:37

Good luck with your tests turtle, the idea is a theoretical construction in my head. It should work :P.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-05-01, 20:48

Hey Kraetos, what would you think about turning your tree farm into the BP subway terminal? It's in the perfect location, is already a good-looking building (especially with the glass ceilings and all), and honestly, a tree farm downtown is kind of a waste of prime real estate.

I think we've decided that the lines will be underground for the most part. Does anyone want to chime in on why that would be a bad idea before it's official?

So it goes.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-05-01, 21:31

Go underground!

I've chimed in.

Submitted one report so only two tests left. Both for the same class. Written and then hands on the following week. I can't wait for it to end.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
Send a message via AIM to RowdyScot Send a message via Skype™ to RowdyScot 
2011-05-01, 21:40

Um...if it goes underground in k's tree farm...that kinda sorta goes through the middle of the gay bars. Not so okay with that. I like the location, but not if it destroys my work.

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-05-01, 22:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowdyScot View Post
Um...if it goes underground in k's tree farm...that kinda sorta goes through the middle of the gay bars. Not so okay with that. I like the location, but not if it destroys my work.
How about we elevate the lines in populated areas?

Again, I strongly disagree with underground lines to due to mine interference. I mean, not to be a melvin, but let's weigh the pros and cons:

Pros: Fewer unsightly sky passages. No additional materials required, although it's not like lumber is expensive.
Cons: Will interfere with existing projects. No way to get off mid-ride and transfer to the skyway to continue on foot. No way to gauge your location from your surroundings. No way to predict where problems will arise since we can't see mines before we tunnel into them. The ride will consist of staring at stone. If we forget torches (or uncover caves) mobs will spawn and be trapped down there.

We have had problems with underground travel tunnels before; Rowdy's concerns are completely valid. I think a nice compromise would be mostly underground with elevated lines over "cities," but to be perfectly honest, what makes the most sense is to elevate the entire system. I understand the aesthetic concerns but we already have skyways and IMO practicality > aesthetics.

The tree farm is fine as a central travel hub, but again, I really, really think that at the very least, all train lines over Bridgeport should be elevated rather than buried. In fact it wouldn't even be possible to put the lines under Bridgeport without disrupting multiple established projects.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope

Last edited by Kraetos : 2011-05-01 at 22:38.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-05-01, 23:03

I agree 100% with Kraetos. We decided on skyways over underground passages for all of those reasons, and I don't see what's so different about rail transport that we make the exact opposite decision.

In fact, in the light of the research we did into the effects of collisions (ie:basically you just stop, no damage), then I don't see why we cant just add tracks to existing skyways - no additional deck required. That's the least amount of work and doesn't require any additional sky buildings. As long as there's enough room to move to one side or the other, everyone should have plenty of time to move out of the way if they're walking and a cart comes by. And even if you don't, no big deal.

Plus, Turtles underground line is long and boring. It would be much nicer if you could see the scenery on the way.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-05-01, 23:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Plus, Turtles underground line is long and boring. It would be much nicer if you could see the scenery on the way.
Holy crap yes. Sorry, turtle, but your tunnels are a bore. This is the same reason we shot down arteggio's underground tunnels long ago. The scenery passing by makes the journey far less tiring.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-05-01, 23:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Holy crap yes. Sorry, turtle, but your tunnels are a bore. This is the same reason we shot down arteggio's underground tunnels long ago. The scenery passing by makes the journey far less tiring.
I'm not offended. Like I said, I built those for me but opened them to the public. We can build above ground routes for those interested or maybe even figure out a way to transfer down to my underground lines. I was thinking about adding art and such to the walls....maybe have to dress it up a bit.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-05-02, 00:39

Whatever, I honestly don't give a fuck either way. What I do give a fuck about is getting some sort of community consensus. This is turning into the currency thread, and whatever asshole started that one better not have started this one.

In short, I just want to build a line. So get off your skirts, marys, or the greyline is going right through gay central.

So it goes.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-05-02, 01:25

Or tastefully around it.


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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-05-02, 08:54

The difference between this and arteggio's project is that we are consulting with eachother about placement; he started his work without a care in the world.

It's fine to be a mix of above and below -- there are certain areas that we absolutely will not want an above ground line, and there are areas where we will. Skyway level tracks aren't going to allow you to see shit, tbh, and underground tracks don't have to be ugly or boring particularly if planned well.

As for mine disruption: we have a tool, it's called an x-ray texture pack. That combined with active consultation will make the most of these challenges moot.

I DO NOT think the tracks should be on the skywalk, unless isolated somehow, simply for the fact that collisions with other individuals will stop the trains.

I honestly don't think these lines will be used as much as warping so I do not care. I won't be using them because of the latency/lag on my connection which nullifies the benefit immensely. I will however like to participate in some advanced engineering...

We also need to be honest about where we need stops and plan above/below ground accordingly.
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-05-02, 12:00

Oh, sure, I cared. I was just new, and naïve to the fact that others had already built under there.

A mix of above and above ground tracks should be a good thing.

Though as for below ground in-around BP, I'm still not sure it's a good idea even with an x-ray pack; there's likely to be just too many things down there. The subway would turn into and underground roller coaster trying to work around everything.

If the hub station is at Spawn for example, I would make a lone BP-access track go into the town from the station, some degree above ground but nowhere near skyway heights. Maybe it could line up with the current Arena track and go into the current station. No reason to go in the dirt or up in the sky for a simple BP line.

Skyway tracks: my proposition is to build them either beneath/above the deck or with their own extension on the side. Like bbsky said, they won't be good for views either, so I think skyway-level tracks should be saved for the long stretches of distance in between the various projects. In my opinion, the time it would take to build a tunnel, say, from BP up to Elysium's place is not worth it. I would cling it onto the skyway. But, slightly-above-ground tracks (think those of the Arena) would be good for project areas assuming the project owner doesn't mind an elevated track in view.

Tunnels leaving the hub station, to de-clutter the area, could be cool though (and then tracks will emerge elsewhere if it makes sense for them to).



But yeah, this community census thing. There are so many variables to this and so many people that get to offer input for these variables. First off, I still wish for a poll for the three hitherto discussed hub locations: Spawn; somewhere on top or around the current BP ministation; near Robo and the BP east-side skyway access. Give it a week or so, and then the votes that come in are definitive. (If no one else takes interest in this nor offers up a better form of democracy, I will make my own thread, with my own poll, give it two weeks, and declare the matter settled unless Brad himself vetoes me. )

I agree that we need to figure out substations too before ground is broken. The only way I can wrap my mind around doing this with everyone and so many locations is to take the first strong color blueprint we have from Kraetos (or Bryson's if you prefer his layout) — or we come up with an updated definitive general layout, since we have talked a little bit more about the main lines — and then we put circles where we think there should be a substation.

Each of us is more or less used to various patches of land around the map. I know the Ravonia area and have ideas with how I want to incorporate it into the lines; 709 and Drew, for example, might have track ideas about the Gherkin-Old Towne area that I don't care about. So, we all need to propose our own various desired substations and then bring them together in a coherenet, single blueprint. (I would also add that we could erase sequences in the lines to denote where we think they should go underground.) Then, we build.

Anyone agree or disagree with this group map-making business, or have a better idea?
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-05-02, 13:03

I'd love to speed up transit from Olde Towne out to Roaring Skull Falls and am wondering if my canopy bridge would be worthy of conversion... would it be possible to sling a track underneath the canopy walk?


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-05-02, 13:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
I'd love to speed up transit from Olde Towne out to Roaring Skull Falls and am wondering if my canopy bridge would be worthy of conversion... would it be possible to sling a track underneath the canopy walk?
I'm pretty sure it would be. Just need at least a two-block tall trench, then lay down track.
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