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MC: beta 1.8 - Exciting Times


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MC: beta 1.8 - Exciting Times
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-30, 18:01

I tried Reddit's PvE server for a while. Lag-tacular. And once you got kicked off (which happened often) you could never get back on - "end of stream" errors up the wazoo. I gave up.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 18:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
I think we should just aggressively trim the world and let the terrain regen with the new 1.8 algorithms. I'd be willing to help smooth the borders.
What 709 was referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
We probably can't ever do the "deep" prune of the world map that I'd suggested previously, either before or after the new generator comes into place. You and I will also never be able to do selective in-game region regeneration after the update (at least not in old areas). Even if we did the deep prune today, a week or more in advance, we'd have to "fill out" the world again to a safe perimeter before the upgrade to be sure stray holes get recreated with the old terrain generator.
My deep pruning is pretty aggressive and will leave holes peppered across the world. I'll upload a before/after example here in a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
That said, Brad, what do you use to trim chunks? I have to do this on my server as well.
I wrote my own program that reads each chunk, checks the full chunk for blocks of certain types, and indicates if that chunk is "safe" to delete. This is a very single-purpose utility that is a quick pile of hacks bound in duct tape, and I don't intend to post it.

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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 18:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Also, (sorry, just kind of posting shit as I think about it) what's the story with a larger world height/depth? Is that something we should consider with the new world? Does it mean double the loot down below or just spread out over layers? Do we have to double it to 256? Would the landscape remain the same but just +64 of air above? So many questions....
Have you seen this screenshot Notch posted back in July?

http://i.imgur.com/nowNT.png

This is a world configured at a height of 512. Last I checked, rumor on the street was that this feature may not be slated for 1.8 but maybe 1.9.

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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 18:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
I'd like to get this either way. There's some finishing touches that I haven't made to some of my projects that I would do regardless. Actually, is it possible to get this file now-ish? Im sure there won't be any major changes before the update, if any.
The main reason I haven't posted the world is for the same reason we have underground/cave view disabled on mcmaps.applenova.com: to afford a modicum of privacy to the caves and secret underground lairs and projects. If we're kissing the world goodbye, I'm fine with handing out a copy for people to play with and tear apart. But until then, I'd be more restrained about it.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-30, 19:16

Brad has a secret DI-NO-SAUR!!!
/singsong


...
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 19:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Have you seen this screenshot Notch posted back in July?

http://i.imgur.com/nowNT.png

This is a world configured at a height of 512. Last I checked, rumor on the street was that this feature may not be slated for 1.8 but maybe 1.9.
No. I'd never seen that. I don't know that I'd want to go to 512 anyways, given our player's propensity to wander. But 256 might be fun. I don't know... just throwing it out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
The main reason I haven't posted the world is for the same reason we have underground/cave view disabled on mcmaps.applenova.com: to afford a modicum of privacy to the caves and secret underground lairs and projects. If we're kissing the world goodbye, I'm fine with handing out a copy for people to play with and tear apart. But until then, I'd be more restrained about it.
Fair enough. Honestly, I was only asking for that because I wanted to retain my sandstone for the Museum before I moved it over to the new world. Best of "both worlds" as it were.

So it goes.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-08-30, 21:29

I still don't much like the idea of starting over. I'm ok with it, though I'd rather just expand. It's not like we don't have enough room on the server now as it is. I guess I'm having a hard time with the idea of throwing out all the work that's been done already.

If there is no true expected world compatibility issue I'd rather put more RAM in the server and an SSD and let it grow.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 21:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
My deep pruning is pretty aggressive and will leave holes peppered across the world. I'll upload a before/after example here in a bit.
This is what I mean by aggressive pruning.

Before!



After!


The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 22:26

Also, obvious spoiler alert, Notch explains a number of the 1.8 features interviewed by IGN at PAX:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcNgWEhlAxg
  quote
Elysium
Environmental Bloodhound
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of ice and snow
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2011-08-30, 22:38

I'm in the same boat with the reluctance to start over to throw out everything. However, the new features and terrain generation are just as tempting in order to do so.

If we do decide to move on I would be fine with an offline copy of the original world to at least have some semblance of pride of the work accomplished. Chances are Stone's Rink of Pain would not be rebuilt if we move on to a new world.

Formerly known as cynical_rock
censeo tentatio victum
There is no snooze button on a cat.
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-08-30, 23:29

If there was a way to copy over select buildings, that would be great: it would be a shame to lose the big projects.

I mean I don't actually care about copying over the skyranch -- i had already started thinking that the project would have been more effective if I had cordoned off a large area at surface level to devote to the project -- it certainly would have been closer to being done. And hey, I learned about perlin noise in the process of designing it, so there's that.

It would be an incredible shame though if i lose the resources I have collected over the months...
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-31, 02:01

I think it would be awesome to see what happens with that pruning... giant towering stacks of terrain crammed in beside the existing development... could be fun. I'm actually pretty excited!


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
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2011-08-31, 14:05

I'm with Bruce...I don't mind starting over to an extent, but I'd like some things to be copied over if we do. I'd be saddened, to say the least, about losing Parapa Palace and the bars (even if they will need redesigns because of OMGWTFBBQ TABLES).

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-31, 14:23

I'm on the other hand: If we start again, I vote that we don't copy structures over. New World, new things. Want a bar? Build a new one.
  quote
RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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2011-08-31, 14:29

Well...I should rephrase. I think my opinion is really going to depend on what all the new blocks are. I've looked through, and the mention of quarter-stone intrigues me. If that much new stuff is available, it may be worth a big redesign. I'll reserve full judgment for when we have the full details available.

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-08-31, 14:40

I think I'm with Bryson, here. New world, new things.

And actually, a new world sounds sort of exciting! I'd be cool with it. Besides, it's not like the existing structures would go away, they'd just be "archived."

If only replacing the real world that we totally fucked up was as easy

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-31, 18:40

A friend of mine does a Minecraft podcast for TheShaft and he said that they moved to a new world once and that everyone raised a holler so they put in a portal to the old world... but the funny thing was that hardly anyone went back to the old world afterward.

As someone who has NOT contributed a major structure to the world it's easy for me to say let's start over (which would be my vote), but I think it could be pretty exciting. A lot of us weren't around for the pioneer phase of this world, so we hunger to become founders


...
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-08-31, 19:38

Since this comic is about the Enderman I thought this was the best place for it:
an Enderman Romance







Can't wait for Enderman action.

The video from Notch looked really cool too. Wonder if we'll be able to actually kill them.

The worst part of not having it solid that we are or aren't going to dump the world when switching is that I'm not compelled to do anything in the current world.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-31, 22:37

I've started disassembling everyone's projects and putting them into chests, for the move. Bruce, one end of Skyranch is nearly packed. Spiders keep coming out though


...
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-09-01, 09:55

Sounds like the "PAX" version of 1.8 may drop on the 8th, and a "final" version of 1.8 to follow a couple weeks later. Then the 1.9 update who-knows-how-long after that.

There's an overhaul to The Nether happening too, but I've seen 1.9 or even later mentioned for that. Ugh. I hope if we start a new world with 1.8 we don't have to make any major adjustments to it for subsequent updates.



Some interesting things with food though: Eating dead flesh (that zombies now drop) or raw chicken can poison you. Apparently all food items will be stackable now, so that's something.

I couldn't find anything about the possibility of planting cocoa beans in these updates, but I hope that's on the list.

So it goes.
  quote
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-09-01, 12:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
I've started disassembling everyone's projects and putting them into chests, for the move. Bruce, one end of Skyranch is nearly packed. Spiders keep coming out though


...
Beware the lava, Drew... There's a lot of it in there...
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-09-01, 12:16

It's ok, he's numbering it and putting it in buckets.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-09-01, 13:17

One thing I'd like to see happen with the 1.8 new world - if possible - is to expand the world height. Not crazy 512, but a simpler 256. Brad mentioned above that this may not happen in the next gen, but I think it would be something that would sate a lot of players (including me) and make me want to build closer to the spawn point. The idea of traveling super-far out doesn't interest me as much as being able to build up and down without hitting limits fairly quick.


Also, I read somewhere that mobs will only drop their drops via player interaction. No lava, cacti, heights, etc. This would render mob traps obsolete, which isn't great news - I know that I for one was looking forward to building a more succinct mob trap.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2011-09-01 at 13:27.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-09-01, 13:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Since this comic is about the Enderman I thought this was the best place for it:
Erm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Enderman. New baddies. . . .

  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-09-01, 14:16

Actually - for game balance purposes, the "no drops unless the player kills them" sounds like an excellent idea. Mob traps are handy, but they are a bit game-breakingly powerful once you get a good one.

I dunno - I think more scarcity is a good thing for gameplay.
  quote
Gargoyle
http://ga.rgoyle.com
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In your dock hiding behind your finder icon!
 
2011-09-01, 14:43

I like the no drop idea too.

I was kind of surprised when I understood what the mob traps were. I thought a part of the multiplayer game would be grouping together and going mob hunting.

OK, I have given up keeping this sig up to date. Lets just say I'm the guy that installs every latest version as soon as its available!
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-09-01, 15:07

We've clearly been spoiled rotten by industry.

Not that I mind, though
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-09-01, 16:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
One thing I'd like to see happen with the 1.8 new world - if possible - is to expand the world height. Not crazy 512, but a simpler 256. Brad mentioned above that this may not happen in the next gen, but I think it would be something that would sate a lot of players (including me) and make me want to build closer to the spawn point. The idea of traveling super-far out doesn't interest me as much as being able to build up and down without hitting limits fairly quick.


Also, I read somewhere that mobs will only drop their drops via player interaction. No lava, cacti, heights, etc. This would render mob traps obsolete, which isn't great news - I know that I for one was looking forward to building a more succinct mob trap.
Psh, not obsolete: awesome. Carefully collecting the mobs in a central location and unloading a torrent of arrows...
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-09-01, 16:23

Blarg.


Here's what I'd like: 256 world height right off the bat. Fuck Nether until 1.9. NPC whores (this is a given).


A simple list for a simple game.

So it goes.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-09-01, 16:27

Simple?

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