[Yikes!]

Originally Posted by Ryan Hey now, she was voted in by the western part of the state. That place is fucken weird. She got elected in the same election in which Colorado voted to reintroduce wolves. The running joke is that the Western Slope voted to send Boebert to Congress so the Front Range voted to send wolves to the Western Slope.

This is inaccurate. Her district includes some very red towns/cities but also extremely blue towns and cities. The western slope of Colorado is interesting as it is predominantly “hippy” but the voting base is still very old and conservative. She won by ~500 votes not because of the overall backwards political leanings of her district but because of the poor turn out by those who live in her district. It’s a true disservice to think that glenwood springs, Carbondale, basalt and Aspen are “fucken weird”.

She will not win again.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Isn’t it someone’s job to check/vet that sort of stuff? You know, just so you don’t accidentally wheel in some old Nazi by mistake. Good grief.

The government's Protocol Office.

This is literally what they are paid for. This debacle happened as part of a state visit to Parliament. But that would mean it's a government failure, and Trudeau would have to bear the responsibility.

So instead, we're all supposed to pretend the Speaker of the House can just do whatever he wants. He invited some random Ukrainian - 'cause they're all alike - and everyone just said "Yes sir!"

[psmith2.0]

Sounds about right. People not doing what they’re supposed to, but shielded/protected for reasons removed from the actual ball-dropping. Selective outrage at its finest, it kinda sounds like.

Why/how, in 2023, are Nazis(!) still managing to show up and be news stories? Are we in another unasked-for Indiana Jones movie where these idiots are just background/set dressing and we’re just somehow not supposed to notice or find it weird?

Have they not had their moment/“time to shine”?! What gives? I don’t wanna see, hear or read about these guys, real life, ever again, in whatever time I’ve got left, be it five years or 30. Enough! They lost, last I checked. Doesn’t that kinda mean a few things?

[drewprops]

Update.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ar-ncna1290946

Apparently, Ukraine *was* a hotbed of Nazism and atrocities against Jews. It's useful to have a broader context on the history of the region, to better understand how Putin employed that history to justify his actions. I don't live there, so everything I understand is filtered through what I'm told.

...

[PB PM]

Ukraine did have a high population of people with German backgrounds in the first half of the 20th century, so that might have had something to do with it. Most of them fled with the Germans in 1944 though, fearing Soviet retaliation for what the German army had done to the Russians.

[psmith2.0]

Awesome. So we're still fighting shit from 75-80 years ago. Just the players/geography have shifted a bit.

There will never be "peace". We, as a species, won't allow it. Would've happened by now.

Because if you go far enough back in time, someone's always wrong about something (and grounds for further "us v them". All the handshaking and treaties signed don't seem to amount to much. Even as a kid, I recognized that. I remember the Sadat/Begin stuff as a kid and my dad saying how important it was, and, even as a kid, me seeing wild-eyed idiots throwing shit in the streets and thinking "are they gonna stick to it? Are they seeing these news reports too?" Or was it all just photo ops for politicians in suits who aren't doing the actual fighting/blowing stuff up?

The latter.

People who've been going at it for decades (wearing the wrong color, or spray painting a wall, in the wrong neighborhood) or centuries (somebody's great-great-great grandfather fucked a goat belonging to an important chief in another tribe/clan, without permission or payment) are never going to act right. Or lay down their arms and embrace peace. The word doesn't exist to them. All they've ever known is the opposite, and I'm not so naive/brain-dead to think that somehow magically goes away via wishing and John Lennon songs.

If that's all it took, then I could take a nice stroll through Coolidge Park in downtown Chattanooga at 11pm without worrying about catching a stray bullet in the neck because two local gangs are beefing (again). And there's a new death toll/body count on the local evening news, every night at 6pm (and pleas of "stay away from..." areas I've spent my entire life enjoying/visiting, until the past 5-8 years because the shitheads have taken it over.

[Ryan]

My great-grandparents were Ukrainian Jews who fled after WW1 and the Bolshevik revolution, then their (US-born) son enlisted as soon as he was 18 and went back to Europe to kill some Nazis. He landed at Normandy as a private and entered Leipzig as a lieutenant captain. Along the way he led his unit in defending the Remagen Bridge after it was captured by the Allies, a little north of Frankfurt over the Rhine. This was the last intact bridge over the Rhine—Hitler ordered them all destroyed to slow the Allied advance, but nothing the Nazis threw at this one worked.

The largest antiaircraft artillery battle in US history took place over this bridge as the Nazis desperately tried to sink it. Didn't work. Underwater Nazi frogmen tried to attach explosives but Allied snipers picked them off in the water. They even launched their own V2 rockets at it but the damn thing was unsinkable.

That is, until 40,000 Allied troops rushed across it in the first 48 hours after its capture, beginning the Allied liberation of the Rhineland. The bridge collapsed after that but fortunately the Army Corps of Engineers had already built additional pontoon bridges by then. Eisenhower called the bridge "worth its weight in gold" and historians believe the capture of this bridge accelerated Allied victory in Europe by weeks to months, saving tens of thousands of lives.

My grandfather tore down the Nazi flag that flew over the bridge's eastern ramparts and raised the first American flag east of the Rhine, which my family still owns, along with a set of ceremonial Nazi officer daggers that he confiscated from the troops he took prisoner. There was a Hollywood movie about it back in the 60s and about ten years ago I visited the remnants of the bridge myself.

[psmith2.0]

Wow. I could see all that in my head, how it played out. Great story and family history!

My grandpa drove a supply truck in Burma (Myanmar) and I'd look at all his souvenirs or things he brought back, decades before I was born. He lost most of his hearing and the doctors said it was likely due to all the shelling/bomb-dropping in/around their base. It progressed during my childhood, but in his final 4-5 years of life, he was stone-cold deaf. His photos (and stories) are amazing. I regret not capturing them somehow, before he died in late 2007. I wish I had voice recordings of him talking and telling things, because every time I'd go to visit him, the subject would eventually make its way around to the war. Sometimes just kinda naturally and roundabout meandering. But then sometimes I'd be like "Pappaw, tell me about that time you guys had to drive those nine trucks up that mountain road to the other side...", and off he'd go. *sniff* My favorite times throughout 2005-2007.

I know I have it good, and easy, due to the things others did and went through.

[Matsu]

Frank, you're not quite right in your assessment, and most people would think it works the way you suggest, but they're wrong. This one falls 1000% on the Speaker, and he should offer his immediate resignation.

The speaker is elected by the house, not appointed by the Prime Minister. Basically, the majority party almost always gets one of their own, though often that doesn't mean it's the PMO's pick for the job. It's super inside baseball, but because the House elects the speaker by secret ballot, this one is a bit of a popularity contest: it is often not quite so easy (and admittedly often not so important) to whip the vote. The opposition often sways the choice (even against a majority) by propping up someone who may only be the second or third favorite choice of the majority caucus. In this case of a minority Parliament, BTW, the Speaker (Rota) would have had to have won his job with support from the Conservative benches to put him over the top...

What's at stake is essentially controllership of the legislature, the Speaker in addition to ceremonial/procedural duties, functions as the CEO of the entire legislative precinct; agenda; schedules; etc..., he/she does not caucus with his/her party; is restricted from certain political events; is given an official residence within the Parliament, and a cottage if I'm not mistaken... As the Governor General represents the Crown, the Speaker represents the Legislature itself and its various offices, including Protocol and Parliamentary relations, or whatever it's called now. But while the GG is appointed, the Speaker is elected for a two-year term beginning with his/her election by a majority of sitting Parliamentarians.

That said, I wouldn't neccessarily blame protocol office staffers just yet. Guests to the gallery are not vetted as a matter of general protocol. You and I can show up to Parliament tomorrow and be seated in the gallery for any public session so long as there is space. I've done this in Ottawa and a few Provincial Legislatures: there's nothing quite like being disappointed by your leaders live and in person

Interestingly, this old Nazi is from the Speaker's home constituency. He is not part of an official Ukrainian delegation. Obviously, someone invited him to make the trip; my strong guess is that the Speaker was introduced to this guy at some constituency level event, or he was recommended by some trusted community person at that level. He likely went looking for a good bit of theatre and asked someone to feel around for someone to "recognize" from his area, an "easy win." He wouldn't have had to tell anyone in Parliament about his wishes. If I know anything about Canadian politicians, they fucking love first responders and vets, the older the better in the latter case. Not always enough to do anything for them, but certainly enough to put them into the dog and pony show whenever they want a photo or a headline...

Well, it definitely turned out to be a good bit of theatre...

[kscherer]

I'm not in their heads, but who says the Speaker had no idea the dude was a Nazi? Maybe he did know!

That would make for even better theater.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Ryan My great-grandparents were Ukrainian Jews who fled after WW1 and the Bolshevik revolution, then their (US-born) son enlisted as soon as he was 18 and went back to Europe to kill some Nazis. He landed at Normandy as a private and entered Leipzig as a lieutenant captain. Along the way he led his unit in defending the Remagen Bridge after it was captured by the Allies, a little north of Frankfurt over the Rhine. This was the last intact bridge over the Rhine—Hitler ordered them all destroyed to slow the Allied advance, but nothing the Nazis threw at this one worked. The largest antiaircraft artillery battle in US history took place over this bridge as the Nazis desperately tried to sink it. Didn't work. Underwater Nazi frogmen tried to attach explosives but Allied snipers picked them off in the water. They even launched their own V2 rockets at it but the damn thing was unsinkable. That is, until 40,000 Allied troops rushed across it in the first 48 hours after its capture, beginning the Allied liberation of the Rhineland. The bridge collapsed after that but fortunately the Army Corps of Engineers had already built additional pontoon bridges by then. Eisenhower called the bridge "worth its weight in gold" and historians believe the capture of this bridge accelerated Allied victory in Europe by weeks to months, saving tens of thousands of lives. My grandfather tore down the Nazi flag that flew over the bridge's eastern ramparts and raised the first American flag east of the Rhine, which my family still owns, along with a set of ceremonial Nazi officer daggers that he confiscated from the troops he took prisoner. There was a Hollywood movie about it back in the 60s and about ten years ago I visited the remnants of the bridge myself.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Wow. I could see all that in my head, how it played out. Great story and family history! My grandpa drove a supply truck in Burma (Myanmar) and I'd look at all his souvenirs or things he brought back, decades before I was born. He lost most of his hearing and the doctors said it was likely due to all the shelling/bomb-dropping in/around their base. It progressed during my childhood, but in his final 4-5 years of life, he was stone-cold deaf. His photos (and stories) are amazing. I regret not capturing them somehow, before he died in late 2007. I wish I had voice recordings of him talking and telling things, because every time I'd go to visit him, the subject would eventually make its way around to the war. Sometimes just kinda naturally and roundabout meandering. But then sometimes I'd be like "Pappaw, tell me about that time you guys had to drive those nine trucks up that mountain road to the other side...", and off he'd go. *sniff* My favorite times throughout 2005-2007. I know I have it good, and easy, due to the things others did and went through.

Both of these stories remind me how close some of us are in history. My great uncle John was aboard the USS Vestal. For anyone who doesn't know, the Vestal was a support ship that was moored up against he USS Arizona during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

My uncle never spoke about the war. I know only that he served throughout and only left in ~1945-46 after it was over.

[kieran]

I "think" I'm a little younger than most who are still posting here, but for me, the Vietnam War is the one that I have relatives that fought in that I remember.

But, even still, I have family that fought in that war and died before I as even born.

My great Uncle ended up on the cover of Vietnam Magazine 30 years after he was killed by friendly fire.



We still think about him every year as there is a memorial lifeguard race in the town he grew up in New Jersey. He spent summers as a lifeguard before he joined the Marines.

[psmith2.0]

Both of my grandfathers were in WWII, nobody I know was in Korea and my Dad was in Vietnam.

I’m sure I had relatives in WWI, the Civil War (what a goofy name/word) and others, but the above three are the ones I know of for sure. Dad was a radio operator and was based on the side of a ridge looking down into a valley. He has two photo albums from his time there and I used to look at them. There would be huge fireball explosions down in the valley that he’d capture and mostly lots of goofing around with others. I know he lost a few friends. He said the only time he was truly scared/wanted out was on night he had to guard the perimeter. It was so dark. He said he never knew if the enemy had crawled up to just feet of him. The sounds from the woods/fields, he was never sure if legit wildlife or enemy soldiers communicating with each other. He talked about the monsoons coming through and just soaking everything/everyone, the heat/humidity, bugs, etc. According to him, my mom and my grandparents, it changed him. He volunteered, joined the Natines and went in Mr. Clean Cut, class President, Wally Cleaver type. Mom said when she saw him afterward, he’d grown his hair, was foul-mouthed and was super liberal/hippie, anti-everything, etc. he was kinda that way growing up, but he’s circled back around to Mr. Hardcore Right-Winger Conservative in the past decade or so. Life, I guess.

[Matsu]

And he's now resigned following his meeting with all party caucus leaders:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/hous...vite-1.6577796

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Ryan My great-grandparents were Ukrainian Jews who fled after WW1 and the Bolshevik revolution,..

Seems to be a common occurrence! My step grandmother’s family came to Canada from the Ukraine at the same time. Almost the entire town she grew up in had the same story, mostly Ukrainians or Ukrainian Germans. She served with the women’s auxiliary near Winnipeg during WW2.

She loved Ukraine, so glad she passed in 2019 and didn’t have to watch this war in their homeland. She was so excited when one of the nurses she had in the seniors home was from there.

My high school physics teacher also had the same background as well.

[kscherer]

"It is with a heavy heart that I did not think things through and caused yet more embarrassment to His Royal Highness, whose uncle was a Nazi sympathizer. Oh, how I wish I were smarter, but I'm not and now I must tuck my tail between my legs and self-cancel. Perhaps I will find mercy when I move to Argentina. Until then, heil Charles!"

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Matsu Frank, you're not quite right in your assessment, and most people would think it works the way you suggest, but they're wrong. This one falls 1000% on the Speaker, and he should offer his immediate resignation.

Point taken, but the guy met personally with the Prime Minister. After Trudeau's 2018 trip to India, when a guy convicted of attempted murder met with the PM's delegation, one would think someone would have been charged with vetting the PM's visitor list.

I mean, this is a political party that goes apoplectic on social media if the Conservative leader shakes hands with some random nut bar at wide open campaign events, and views that as disqualifying. This is a million times worse.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Point taken, but the guy met personally with the Prime Minister. After Trudeau's 2018 trip to India, when a guy convicted of attempted murder met with the PM's delegation, one would think someone would have been charged with vetting the PM's visitor list. I mean, this is a political party that goes apoplectic on social media if the Conservative leader shakes hands with some random nut bar at wide open campaign events, and views that as disqualifying. This is a million times worse.

Yeah, it's a big failure of the vetting process. I dislike Trudeau and Poilievre equally, so I say that with no trepidation.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by kscherer Both of these stories remind me how close some of us are in history. My great uncle John was aboard the USS Vestal. For anyone who doesn't know, the Vestal was a support ship that was moored up against he USS Arizona during the attack on Pearl Harbor. My uncle never spoke about the war. I know only that he served throughout and only left in ~1945-46 after it was over.

My grandfather never spoke about it, but he wrote a short memoir about ten years before his passing. I was also able to visit the American cemetery at Normandy and photograph the seven graves of his brothers-in-arms who died there. My aunt printed them out and brought the photos to him, he was moved to tears.

My brother and I are planning a trip next year to take my father to Europe and retrace his father's steps from Normandy to Leipzig.

When I was walking the Camino de Santiago last year I met a 90-year-old German pilgrim from Leipzig. He would've been 12 when the Allies reached that city and I have to wonder if he saw my grandfather marching into Leipzig in 1945.