[psmith2.0]

Check this out from CNN!.

Not quite sure how I feel about that fifth one. Although, if Anakin gets all messed up in this coming third one (and, of course, he does because the black armor DOES make its appearance), then he was indeed a young man when he became Darth.

But still, his present-day ghost (at the end of "ROTJ") should look like the older guy that Lucas originally used. Makes no sense to use young Hayden, unless you use a young Alec Guiness and a smooth-faced Yoda (although, I suppose there's a chance of that too).



There's a companion interview today at CNN.com with Lucas, and part of me can understand his desire to "improve" on his original vision, utilizing the bitchin' technology available today to facilitate this. But it also kinda makes you think "well hell, nothing's really permanent, is it?" and you realize these movies, in your head and beloved for decades now, are subject to George's endless tinkering on a whim.

I'm not sure I'm into that idea.

He's quite straightforward in that interview, basically coming across like "tough...these are how I originally envisioned these films, and if you fell in love with a half-completed version, I'm sorry...".



Yeah, Mr. Lucas. I think we all kinda did. I don't know. They're his babies, I guess. But I'm a big believer of the "if it ain't broke..." and "just because you CAN do something, doesn't always mean you should" schools of thought.

These "improvements" and changes aren't that mind-boggling or plot-serving. Mostly eye-candy. And in the case of "Greedo shooting first" and "digitally inserting Hayden C. into the Jedi ghost trio", they tend to exist primarily to piss people off.



I do dearly dig the updated "Millennium Falcon lifting out of Mos Eisley" scene, but that's about the only thing that struck me as particularly cool and memorable.

Where do you guys stand on this? It's Lucas' stuff, so he certainly has the right. But do you also think that maybe someone should consider knocking him out and tying him to a chair in a back room at the Ranch for a couple of years? He's screwing with my childhood!

[709]

George Lucas should be condemned to eternally wear his beloved Darth Vader helmet...only with the voice synthesizer permanently tuned to 'Jar Jar'.

[autodata]

Man, oh man, I hate Hayden Christensen. Almost as much a jar jar. As unbearably obnoxious as jar jar is, at least he's in character. The olsen twins in the full house years could act better than that douche.

[Naderfan]

So the changes he made in 97 are part of the DVDs? That sucks. I was hoping they'd be the original movies and then have the new scenes just as extras. Someone should put a restraining order on Lucas so he can't tinker with the movies anymore.

[709]

Originally Posted by autodata Man, oh man, I hate Hayden Christensen.

"Luke...you whiney little brat...I am your father."

Indeed.

[curiousuburb]

Actually, if he's keen for contract work, some other old films could use crap removal retroactively.

[Wrao]

I've seen all 3 DVDs, and all the changes are fine. I grimaced a little when I saw the new emperor scene and the new hayden scene, but ultimately, I see why lucas changed it, and it's better for the series that way.

[sunrain]

I'm not against updating the movies in order improve the production values. It's nice to have some CGI enhanced backgrounds, etc. It gives the movies some added depth. I just can't get down with the changes that either add characters or alter plot lines. If I were a director, I'd make changes that would be seamless enough to make people wonder, "wait, was that in the original?", not "dude, that's an obvious change."

Lucas did much better with his changes to THX 1138. Much more subtle on the whole. I just wish he could've followed that thinking on the Star Wars revisions. Hell, at this point it'd almost have been better if *gasp* he re-made the original trilogy. At least a re-make wouldn't seem to contain multiple contexts.

*ducks*

But then, if a director doesn't think the movie needs to be remade, why subtly fuck with it like this. I dunno, I got my DVD set on Saturday and I've watched through the whole trilogy. I just briefly cringe through the parts that bother me and move on.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Naderfan So the changes he made in 97 are part of the DVDs? That sucks. I was hoping they'd be the original movies and then have the new scenes just as extras. Someone should put a restraining order on Lucas so he can't tinker with the movies anymore.

Apparently, When they release the mammoth 6+ disc box set in 2006, they will have the ORIGINAL untouched(save for clean up) versions on one side of the DVD, and the special editions on the other side. But I haven't seen this confirmed, just hearsay.

[psmith2.0]

There's a kick-ass photo floating around the Internet of Hayden C. supposedly post-lava pit/pre-Vader outfit.



Pretty brutal. Burnt black on his body from neck down, face burned/scarred, skull split, right arm missing and robotic hand/arm in place. Pretty gruesome if its the real deal.

Do a google image search for "episode III" or "darth vader" and whatnot. Can't miss it. Can't imagine something that graphic being part of a Lucas film, except maybe in a fleeting, semi-blurry background. Much too nasty to linger on for a PG film.



EDIT: Ewww, found it. In context in some magazine? Still not sure if it's legit, but if it is...eeek! No wonder Vader was such a pissy bad-ass in the original three films!

[johnq]

I liked most of the changes except for the fact that since the music was composed based on the original edit, he needed to loop parts of the score a few times in places to pad it out, and to me the music is sacrosanct. Not sure why he thinks we wouldn't notice.

But I'm on his side. Tinker away. Just as long as he doesn't composite in the cast of That 70's Show.

[Eugene]

The Hayden force-ghost really bugs me more than anything else. Lucas is insane. I can't wait to see the next revision where the stormtroopers have sponsor logos on their armor.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by johnq I liked most of the changes except for the fact that since the music was composed based on the original edit, he needed to loop parts of the score a few times in places to pad it out, and to me the music is sacrosanct. Not sure why he thinks we wouldn't notice. But I'm on his side. Tinker away. Just as long as he doesn't composite in the cast of That 70's Show.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that John Williams was brought in to provide some additional scoring.

[Wrao]

by the way, Relevant Something Awful Photoshop series

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Eugene The Hayden force-ghost really bugs me more than anything else. Lucas is insane. I can't wait to see the next revision where the stormtroopers have sponsor logos on their armor.

Yeah, that one just doesn't seem to make any sense. Unless the whole point of the Force ghost thing is that they forever appear in the stage in which they "die". I guess ghosts don't age?



Wait a minute...Vader "died", as an old coot, in "ROTJ".



You're right. Lucas is insane. That bit of tweaking just doesn't make sense. It should STILL be the old guy that died, only in a purer, non-scarred form...like the movie DID to begin with.

Maybe the Force considers Anakin truly Anakin prior to becoming Vader and THAT'S why he's shown? Just totally conflicts with what was originally shown (which works and makes sense).

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Wrao by the way, Relevant Something Awful Photoshop series

Funnay! Love the sock puppets.

[johnq]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Can't imagine something that graphic being part of a Lucas film, except maybe in a fleeting, semi-blurry background. Much too nasty to linger on for a PG film.

ahem... Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? Removal of a man's living beating heat by hand? (Lucas wrote the story, edited parts and was executive producer - okay, he didn't "direct it") and that was PG. Would the director's cut have shown the man being beaten to death with his own severed leg perhaps?

Not to mention the gory blast-furnace-to-the-face deaths of the Nazis in the first one.

I think we'll see plenty of this gore in order to make his character more sympathetic, a victim and tragic figure.

I daresay Vader was "good" even through the entire OT. Yes, he offed some rebels but in the big picture I swear his goal was to stay close and in good favor with the Emperor, but also find his son (he didn't know about Leia) and have his son defeat the Emperor with him (knowing he couldn't do it alone). This is going to be a "from a certain point of view" type revelation so that we can see Vader in a different light. Badass yes, but with a Charles Bronson root for the mixed up "bad" guy vibe.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by johnq ahem... Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? Removal of a man's living beating heat by hand? (Lucas wrote the story, edited parts and was executive producer - okay, he didn't "direct it")

I'm aware of that. And I seem to recall, didn't that particular sequence, along with that "Gremlins" movie play a large part in the PG-13 rating coming about? Seems like I remember, at the time, the outrage of that "heart removal" scene and the one where the little Gremlins were nuked in the microwave.

That was probably a bit of a turning point, that summer.



EDIT: I'm a damn genius. I was saying all the above, totally on memory. Then I go to google.com to look for some back-up proof, and found this (which just was posted last month...odd).



http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movi....pg13.at20.ap/

[johnq]

This one RULES.



Ties things up nicely.

[johnq]

Originally Posted by sunrein I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that John Williams was brought in to provide some additional scoring.

That may be but at least pre-DVD there are a handful of spots where they just loop for a few measures extra. Or did you mean he was brought in for the DVD?

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Maybe the Force considers Anakin truly Anakin prior to becoming Vader and THAT'S why he's shown? Just totally conflicts with what was originally shown (which works and makes sense).

But wasn't that the true Anakin dying in the corridor with his mask off?

Die Lucas.

[psmith2.0]

Exactly. That's why this addition makes little to no sense.

[johnq]

Originally Posted by Eugene But wasn't that the true Anakin dying in the corridor with his mask off? Die Lucas.

Actually I'm borderline saying "boycott!" for that one. The whole point is he's redeemed at the end by his killing the Emperor. Adding Hayden just means, "screw the redemption". What does he do in Ep III that makes him suddenly worthy of being shown as a "good Jedi ghost"? He's a whiney bastard mass murderer liar in Ep II, we can presume he kills a ton of Jedi and folks in Ep III...

Maybe if he has a "you were right Master Yoda" scene and he promises to lie to the Emperor and bide time until Luke can be properly trained. That would at least tie into my alternate theory/hunch about Vader having been good in the OT.

[BarracksSi]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm aware of that. And I seem to recall, didn't that particular [heart-pulling] sequence, along with that "Gremlins" movie play a large part in the PG-13 rating coming about?.... That was probably a bit of a turning point, that summer.

Yup, it sure was, and good find on the CNN story, too.

I had just turned 13 and my sister was under 13, plus I had seen both movies. Those two were the ones that were all over the news when the parents started whining for a new rating (rather than "guiding parentally" as the PG rating suggested that they do in the first place).

Then, with a PG-13 rating, you could guess that, depending on the story, you had a decent shot at seeing some boobs and hearing more cuss words after your parents dropped you off at the theater.

Back on topic:

Those Photoshops were REALLY funny!

And, it's Lucas's story in the first place, he can change it if he wants. I think we all agree that he can't write humor or romance worth a crap, though.

[Mac+]

Well, one thing is for sure - Lucas knows how to turn a dollar or two. It seems the pre-emptive release of these on DVD was to foil rampant piracy. No doubt, we'll all buy this set and then in a few years time when the "rumored" original cuts are offered (if ever), we'll buy them too!

Originally Posted by CNN interview Q:Why did you change your mind and decide to put the original three movies out on DVD now? GEORGE LUCAS: Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.

[johnq]

Originally Posted by BarracksSi I think we all agree that he can't write humor or romance worth a crap, though.

"Anymore" perhaps.

He certainly could do humor in A New Hope.

And he did a tender bittersweet romance in THX 1138, drug addled as it was and as unresolved (from THX's view) as it is.

And American Graffiti and Raiders of the Lost Ark were gems too.

(or might that have been Gloria Katz/Willard Huyck and Philip Kaufman/Lawrence Kasdan's doing, respectively?)

But you can skip Howard the Duck please.

Empire gave him a total inferiority complex and he must have reflexively gotten jealous of its popularity relative to his lesser input. Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett did a number on him and he felt he needed to be so somber about the Prequels. He thinks seriousness means lack of humor, which it certainly doesn't as any good war flick will show you. The fun, what there is, is now too calculated and seemingly only for the benefit of the wee ones. There's nothing there for the adults except brooding and meandering babbling. Humor and fun were organic in IV (and V to a lesser extent).

[Naderfan]

Originally Posted by Mac+ Well, one thing is for sure - Lucas knows how to turn a dollar or two. It seems the pre-emptive release of these on DVD was to foil rampant piracy. No doubt, we'll all buy this set and then in a few years time when the "rumored" original cuts are offered (if ever), we'll buy them too!

I think I'm losing my mind. I could have sworn that I read somewhere today that they will re-release the DVDs in 2006 with the original versions on one side and the new versions on the other. But when I went back to double check, I can't find it anywhere. I've re-read all the articles I read concerning the subject (which has only been three) a couple of times and no sign of that. So apparently I'm hallucinating, unless anyone else read that somewhere. I don't know why my brain would've just made that up since it's not really something that I think about and I have so many specifics-the date, each side having a movie on it (I thought that was weird, because I didn't think DVDs had two sides that could be recorded on), and I swear it was just in parentheses in the article. But I can't find it, so apparently I'm just insane. But if anyone else read that somewhere, please post it and redeem my sanity. Or what little was left.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Naderfan I think I'm losing my mind. I could have sworn that I read somewhere today that they will re-release the DVDs in 2006 with the original versions on one side and the new versions on the other. But when I went back to double check, I can't find it anywhere. I've re-read all the articles I read concerning the subject (which has only been three) a couple of times and no sign of that. So apparently I'm hallucinating, unless anyone else read that somewhere. I don't know why my brain would've just made that up since it's not really something that I think about and I have so many specifics-the date, each side having a movie on it (I thought that was weird, because I didn't think DVDs had two sides that could be recorded on), and I swear it was just in parentheses in the article. But I can't find it, so apparently I'm just insane. But if anyone else read that somewhere, please post it and redeem my sanity. Or what little was left.

Ha, you read it earlier in this thread, from me. I heard it from a die-hard star wars fan that even thinks episode 1 was "not THAT bad", I never researched it myself, but I was inclined to believe him.

[johnq]

Edit:

I take it back. I think the way it's written makes it seem like the current DVDs were rushed sans the original theatrical versions. But that's just juxtapositioning and never actually said.

Why Lucas tinkered with 'Star Wars'

Some will be miffed that the original theatrical versions are not included in the "Star Wars" boxed set, which features only the special-edition versions Lucas issued in the late 1990s, with added effects and footage, including a scene between Harrison Ford's Han Solo and crime lord Jabba the Hutt in the first "Star Wars." This is where I "read" linkage to them being rushed and not including the original theatrical versions -- JQ Q: Why did you change your mind and decide to put the original three movies out on DVD now? GEORGE LUCAS: Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.

[psmith2.0]

At this point, I'm kinda scared to think what these movies might look like by 2006. He might decide to go in and replace Yoda in "Empire" with a total CGI-based version, and part Luke's hair on the other side.

And give Chewbacca a tomahawk or something. And have Threepio officially come out, to latch on to that whole "Queer Eye" thing?



"George, step away from the editing bay...go write a 'Howard the Duck' sequel, goober, and quit monkeying with our precious childhood heroes and memories!"