[Escher]

I was going to pose this question in the Why do cyclists insist on riding their bikes on the road? thread. But then I figured that thread was already heated and long enough, and runners are a different animal than bikers. So...

Why do runners insist on running on the road?

When I drive my car, I often encounter runners that are running either in the middle of the road, or alongside parked cars. This is in places where there is a perfectly good sidewalk, which is meant for pedestrians -- including runners. Seems to me like runners would be illegal in the car lanes, just like bikers are illegal on the sidewalk, no? What's the deal?

As a runner, I'd be afraid of cars even more than a biker. So why on earth would anybody run alongside parked cars, where the bikes are supposed to be riding? Is this a visibility thing like the bikers in the middle of a car lane? An ego thing to tick off car-drivers, just like the militant bikers like to do? Trying to simulate a race on a course closed off to cars? I'm at a loss.

Obligatory disclaimer: I own a car, a race bike, and a pair of running shoes. I use my car the most because that's the only time-effective way for me to get to work. I was a militant, in-your-face biker in my younger years. So I have quite a bit of experience ticking off car-drivers. But I haven't run enough miles to answer my question about why the heck some runners insist on running in the middle of the road.

[Ryan]

Driveways that dip. It throws them off, or so I've heard.

[atomicbartbeans]

Maybe it has something to do with everything else on the sidewalk - people stopped for conversation, mothers with their progeny, kids skateboarding, couples holding hands, old people - I can imagine that getting in the way of someone training for a race. I don't see how all that should disrupt a casual runner though.

The way I see it, people running in the road are no different from slow people on bikes (albeit with increased collision avoidance mobility) - as long as they're visible and predictable they shouldn't really pose a safety risk; as long as they stay to the side they shouldn't present an undue annoyance to drivers.

[Luca]

Runners that do this also piss off bikers. Especially runners that occupy specially marked BIKE ONLY lanes. Seriously, fuck them. Whenever I go biking down Summit Avenue in the early fall, they're absolutely everywhere, and nearly all of them are right in the bike lane. A lot of the time there are like 3-4 of them side by side too, forcing bikers to go dangerously far into the part of the road meant for cars.

What's even worse than that is all the idiot runners on the chain of lakes here in Minneapolis who insist on running on the bike trail, even when there's a second path clearly labeled for pedestrians right next to it. What the hell, are runners blind or something?

Not all runners, of course, since I'm sure there are some courteous runners who hang out here. But honestly, running in a bike lane when there's a running path right next to it is the dumbest thing ever. It's much easier to go around walkers and slower runners than it is for bikes to avoid people. Bikes have a lot of momentum and can't easily maneuver, and a collision could cause serious injuries.

[PKIDelirium]

Put a slingshot on the front of your bike. Use paintballs with it.

[evan]

i run around my neighborhood frequently and I don't see a problem with running on the side of the road in residential areas with the occasional passing car. i wouldn't even consider running on the road if there was actual traffic though, that would just be dumb.

[Banana]

Wow. I've never quite seen that stuff myself. Now and then there's a runner on the shoulder, but I can't remember ever seeing a runner on the road outside of a big marathon event where road is closed off and rerouted.

How common is this?

[Yonzie]

Because the sidewalk is often pretty crappy. The road is much better paved, so you get to keep a rhythm better. That, and there's far less obstacles to avoid (old ladies, kids, etc.)
It's like the rollerblade guys driving on the bike paths here even though they're supposed to be on the sidewalk.

That said, They need to GTFO my road.

[rasmits]

Does it really bother you that much? I find that hard to believe.

[zsummers]

Originally Posted by Escher I was going to pose this question in the Why do cyclists insist on riding their bikes on the road? thread. But then I figured that thread was already heated and long enough, and runners are a different animal than bikers. So... Why do runners insist on running on the road? When I drive my car, I often encounter runners that are running either in the middle of the road, or alongside parked cars. This is in places where there is a perfectly good sidewalk, which is meant for pedestrians -- including runners. Seems to me like runners would be illegal in the car lanes, just like bikers are illegal on the sidewalk, no? What's the deal? As a runner, I'd be afraid of cars even more than a biker. So why on earth would anybody run alongside parked cars, where the bikes are supposed to be riding? Is this a visibility thing like the bikers in the middle of a car lane? An ego thing to tick off car-drivers, just like the militant bikers like to do? Trying to simulate a race on a course closed off to cars? I'm at a loss. Obligatory disclaimer: I own a car, a race bike, and a pair of running shoes. I use my car the most because that's the only time-effective way for me to get to work. I was a militant, in-your-face biker in my younger years. So I have quite a bit of experience ticking off car-drivers. But I haven't run enough miles to answer my question about why the heck some runners insist on running in the middle of the road.

I mostly agree with this sentiment (especially as to runners trucking around with iPods in ear, etc.)...

...however, as a runner who deals with ITB (iliotibial band syndrome), I can tell you why some people do it: many sidewalks have a significant, consistent slant to one side or the other, while the crown of the road does not. It's actually common advice to marathoners to run most of the race down the crown. This is because running on a slanted surface makes either the left or right foot--whichever is the down-slant foot--travel a longer distance to impact than the up-slant foot has to travel. This in turn causes some awkward turning in (or out) of the knee (and other gait abnormalities)... which in turn causes muscles (like the ITB, which runs from the hip all the way to below the knee, stabilizing the thigh muscles) to rub over the knobby surfaces of the knee and become inflamed. If this happens consistently enough, you build up scar-tissue, making the issue worse. Then you're down for the count, like me, for over a month.

So, while I wouldn't encourage a runner to run down the middle of the road in most situations, I will do it occasionally. But I will say with certainty (and sanity) that I've never been in the middle of the road (or even on the same side, really) as any car within a block of me. I do it in quiet neighborhoods late at night (11pm+) or early in the morning (6am-), and never during the day. And I still stick mostly to sidewalks...

...le sigh. To have uncluttered dirt paths to run on and uncluttered pavement to drive on.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by Escher Why do runners insist on running on the road?

This is a much less complex and more easy-to-understand phenomenon than the cyclist issues. Unless there are lots of blind driveways where motorists can't see pedestrians crossing the sidewalk as they back out or pull in, or unless the sidewalk or shoulder areas are under construction or are otherwise dangerous (bad slant for prolonged durations, lots of loose pavement), the runner is either careless or an idiot.

Hope that clears things up for you.

[torifile]

The road also feels softer than the sidewalk, at least when I run. Sidewalks just hurt to run on. Asphalt is a much kinder surface than cement on the joints.

[BuonRotto]

Concrete hurts my feet a lot more than asphalt. Asphalt has more "give" as a more plastic material.

That said, runners *are* pedestrians and should *not* be on the road in general. If you are running in the road, you *must run on the left side of the road, not the right. As pedestrians, you must move against the flow of vehicle traffic. It allows drivers to see you sooner, and more importantly, allows you to see drivers coming.

[Banana]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto If you are running in the road, you *must run on the left side of the road, not the right. As pedestrians, you must move against the flow of vehicle traffic. It allows drivers to see you sooner, and more importantly, allows you to see drivers coming.

I do the same thing when walking down a country road myself. I am not too sure but seem to recall that doing so could be illegal (or maybe that was pertaining to bikes but not walking), but that made no sense to me because I am not as hell going to be on the side where I can't see them coming at me. And if there's no shoulder, I can always get off the road and walk the ditch (if dry) or on grass/rocks as I see vehicles approaching or when walking down a curve or if terrain is too rough, just stand and wait for vehicle to pass by before resuming walking.

Running on the same road? HA!

[Moogs]

If your shoes are in good shape the concrete vs. asphalt shouldn't make much difference unless it's newly laid asphalt that has the "spongy" factor. I think most runners who run into joint and back problems do so because they try to get maximum mileage out of their shoes when they should replace them. For runners, the soles and cushions in those shoes wear down more quickly than other types of cross-trainers that you may just wear to wherever. With everyday shoes you can kind of look at them and the undersides and know if they're trashed. With running shoes, they could still look good / relatively new, and be trashed anyway.

[murbot]

I give cyclists lots of room, but I try to get as close as humanly possible to runners who are 2 feet from the curb on the road. Not sure why exactly, but I do. Get off my damn road.

[Boomerangmacuser]

I've seen many runners on the roads none run against traffic. They really should, it just makes sense. I guess they run on the road for many of the same reasons we ride ont he road. That 'dip' at every driveway gets really annoying at 30 Km/h.

Luca... I'll see your "runners on bike paths infuriate me." and raise you "pedestrians walking their dogs on bike paths drive me F**&*ing nuts!" They have clearly marked paths with a pedestrian/dog walker on one side and a biker/rollerblader on the other, and yet THEY get mad at ME when I ask them to move aside.

OTOH, following a lovely lady rollerblader is quite the calming experience.

[Escher]

Originally Posted by Yonzie That said, They need to GTFO my road.

Originally Posted by Moogs This is a much less complex and more easy-to-understand phenomenon than the cyclist issues. Unless there are lots of blind driveways where motorists can't see pedestrians crossing the sidewalk as they back out or pull in, or unless the sidewalk or shoulder areas are under construction or are otherwise dangerous (bad slant for prolonged durations, lots of loose pavement), the runner is either careless or an idiot. Hope that clears things up for you.

Yonzie and Moogs, you speak my mind.

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Maybe it has something to do with everything else on the sidewalk - people stopped for conversation, mothers with their progeny, kids skateboarding, couples holding hands, old people - I can imagine that getting in the way of someone training for a race. I don't see how all that should disrupt a casual runner though.

I've observed runners in the road at times of the day and in areas where the sidewalks would be all theirs. Case in point, the sidewalks in my neighborhood are in perfect shape, and save for a rare pedestrian, completely clear. So that's not a good excuse.

Originally Posted by Yonzie Because the sidewalk is often pretty crappy. The road is much better paved, so you get to keep a rhythm better.

Originally Posted by Ryan Driveways that dip. It throws them off, or so I've heard.

I guess I don't run seriously enough to understand that perspective. I mean, there are runners that run exclusively on cross-country trails. So why on earth would you want to run in the middle of a road with cars? If you want flat-as-flat-could-be, take it to the track!

Originally Posted by rasmits Does it really bother you that much? I find that hard to believe.

Yes, rasmits! It bothers the hell out of me. Especially in the morning when I've only had one cup of coffee. I don't drive my car on the sidewalk, ever! So don't friggin' run on the road in front of my car!

Originally Posted by zsummers I mostly agree with this sentiment (especially as to runners trucking around with iPods in ear, etc.)... ...however, as a runner who deals with ITB (iliotibial band syndrome), I can tell you why some people do it: many sidewalks have a significant, consistent slant to one side or the other, while the crown of the road does not. It's actually common advice to marathoners to run most of the race down the crown. This is because running on a slanted surface makes either the left or right foot--whichever is the down-slant foot--travel a longer distance to impact than the up-slant foot has to travel. This in turn causes some awkward turning in (or out) of the knee (and other gait abnormalities)... which in turn causes muscles (like the ITB, which runs from the hip all the way to below the knee, stabilizing the thigh muscles) to rub over the knobby surfaces of the knee and become inflamed. If this happens consistently enough, you build up scar-tissue, making the issue worse. Then you're down for the count, like me, for over a month.

Thanks for your understanding, zsummers. Now that you mention ITB and slanted roads, I remember my dad buying a pair of shoes where you could supposedly adjust firmness between left and right shoes to compensate for running along the left side or the road and corresponding slant. This was in the early to mid 80's, as far as I remember. Doubt that this system would have addressed the physiological problem of running long distances on roads slanted exclusively one way.

But, how about mixing up your running surfaces to avoid asymmetrical wear on your body? Could that really be a bad thing for serious or aspiring marathon runners?

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Boomerangmacuser I've seen many runners on the roads none run against traffic. They really should, it just makes sense.

As a runner and part of a run group in the past, it has always been the rule to run against traffic.

This way you really can't miss the oncoming car. But the protocol really is to get on the sidewalk as soon as you see a car approaching. Not all runners do this and I know this pisses the hell out of me when I'm driving. All you need is to be somewhat distracted by something on the other side of the road and totally miss the oncoming runner. And even more so in the winter time when many runners take to the streets to avoid unshoveled sidewalks.

[zippy]

Both the biking and running issues would be solved if everyone would just buy a car and drive it everywhere!

[FFL]

Originally Posted by zippy Both the biking and running issues would be solved if everyone would just buy a car and drive it everywhere!

Now THAT is a "Montana Solution" if I ever heard one!