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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-11-19, 10:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Yeah, I think that's right. But I'm not entirely sure. Some cities like Paris have started locking down individual traffic hard.

We've probably seen the peak of "everyone needs a car at age 16".
Absolutely, it’s already known the sales of both new and used cars to people under 30 are down significantly from past generations, automakers are already panicking. Then again the total price of owning a vehicle has increased faster than inflation in the past 10-15 years, so that could be playing a roll as well.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-19, 10:29

They're so expensive now. I regularly just go prowling around websites - Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, etc. - to see what's out there, what's the latest. And, man...it's hard to find a decent car that's really affordable.

Affordability, Quality, Features...pick two, because you probably ain't getting all three for under $22,000.

"I want Bluetooth and payments I can afford...but it's a piece of shit. Rats! Try again...".
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-19, 12:14

The "everyone rents" model is fine for the inner city, but in widely-spaced suburban areas it's just a fool's errand. In the U.S., suburban life is the norm, and distances to/from whatever are long. Sitting around waiting for a rental car to get to you is just bananas. Most people out here where I live do things all at once, meaning commuting, going out to eat, shopping, etc. That means all of those cars have to get to all of those places at nearly the same time, which means we still need a car for pretty much every single household. So, why not just own the car?

I'll rent a car when I travel if I have to, but no way am I going to rent a car for daily chores/commuting/shopping/going out. No way! It gets back to my example earlier: Who gets the car first? Is it money or boobs? Or do I have to plan my grocery outing three weeks ahead like it's an airline ticket?

Stupid!

Where this makes sense is in densely populated urban areas like New York where ride-hailing is already the norm and the distance from point A to point B is relatively short on average. Out here (even in Boise) some commuters are traveling 30+ miles and need to stop at the store/restaurant/bar on the way home, so car-pooling doesn't work because car-poolers and their plans cannot and will not ever line up. To work and back? Sure. But what happens when I have plans with friends? How far ahead do I have to plan that in order to guarantee a car will even be available?

And what about all those work trucks PB PM is talking about? That means street signs and lane markings still need to work for both humans and robots, which means the robots need to understand both and, worse, so do humans.

What about dump trucks and other construction vehicles?

And what happens when the system goes down because "we are experiencing technical difficulties." What happens to all of those woefully unprepared folks stuck in robots with no food, water, or clothing because why would a robot car have any emergency supplies for emergencies?

What about police vehicles? Do they have to hail a ride?

Fire trucks?

The ambulance?

Where does the silliness end?

Chucker is 100% correct. This tech is light years away. Too many variables, stubborn freedom-lovers (like me), traffic direction issues, etc. Also, the technical/security barriers (in terms of keeping the system running without hackers hacking in) will keep me from trusting the system for, like, ever!

You can't protect my email account? No way in hell will I trust you with my life.

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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-11-19, 13:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
In the U.S., suburban life is the norm,
That’s a recent development, and I’m not sure it’s sustainable. We might see a swing back this very century.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-19, 14:54

We have four types of folks here in the U.S. as far as living situations are concerned:

Urban: Folks living in densely populate cities such as New York and Chicago (among others);

Suburban: Folks living a fair distance from the urban areas (up to 30 miles or so). This is where the majority of our population currently live;

Rural: The entire midwest and almost all of our farming/ranching lands, plus everything in between;

Hermit Crabs: There are still some very back-woods folks here, and many of them would rather shoot you on sight as look at you.

This whole "auto-car" thing makes some sense to exactly the first category, and zero sense to everyone else. "Public transportation" is not a thing for the vast majority of Americans, and for several reasons, the most obvious of which is that the U.S. is a nation of sprawlers that want to be on their own back forty and nowhere else. Here in Boise the idea of a rail system has been floating for 20 years, but with no place to put it because the entire area is already paved over and built up. There was a solution available 15 years ago, but no one listened to me, so screw them!

Busses work in some places (like Phoenix and Portland) and don't work at all (Like here in Boise, where the bus system has been so politicized as to be useless). Kid you not, there is a section of the road our shop is on where the bus literally goes 1/2 mile out of its own way to avoid serving a mile of road due to an ongoing dispute the bus system's owner has with a small business on that stretch. "Agree with me or I will divert my busses around you!" And, since the bus company gets to determine the routes by contract, the city is powerless to fix it. Even setting that aside, our bus system is a useless turd that serves only the desperate; a bicycle is faster and more reliable, even in the winter!

I'll let others speak to their own situations, but I lived in Portland and Phoenix and could use public transportation in a pinch (at least so long as I didn't need to be out later than 10pm-midnight — but that was years ago; I have no idea what the hours are like now). I do remember that if I got off work later than 10 I was on foot.

Auto-cars might solve some of that (again, in densely populated urban areas), but the majority of the population are going to be woefully underserved by such a system.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-11-19, 15:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
They're so expensive now. I regularly just go prowling around websites - Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, etc. - to see what's out there, what's the latest. And, man...it's hard to find a decent car that's really affordable.

Affordability, Quality, Features...pick two, because you probably ain't getting all three for under $22,000.

"I want Bluetooth and payments I can afford...but it's a piece of shit. Rats! Try again...".
An affordable good vehicle is only have of it, throw in insurance, regular maintenance and fuel/electricity costs, and it adds up fast as well.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-19, 16:23

If I lived in New York City or somewhere like that, where I was actually living smack downtown and I worked somewhere that was also smack downtown, and the bulk of my friends, hangouts, socializing activities were all smack downtown, I certainly wouldn't own a car. I figure the money I wasn't spending on monthly payments, insurance, parking and maintenance automatically becomes my subway/train/taxi/bus money, right? Or I walk/bike/skateboard. All those options to choose from.

On long weekends, if I wanted to get out of the city and go somewhere, that's what Enterprise, Hertz, Avis, etc. are for, and that's what I'd do.

I'd never own a car if the bulk of my life took - living, working, socializing, shopping - took place within a 3-5 mile chunk of area.

But that's not my life. The things I do/places I go aren't served by public transport (there's none to speak of, once out of the downtown Chattanooga area). Out here in the suburbs, you drive. Or, if you want to walk and bike everywhere, allow for a shitload of time on grocery/pharmacy/errand runs (and good luck on all the hilly, curvy, no-shoulder roads around here that aren't safe/conducive for either of those activities).

I do hate driving, and I've come to despise everyone else driving around me (because they all suck at it...don't know how to use turn signals, don't know how to treat four-way stops or roundabouts, roll through stop signs, constantly distracted by/screwing with their phones, tailgate or slowpoke (the old thing about how everyone driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster is a maniac).

But it's my only viable option, where I live and how my life is. If the outlying areas of Chattanooga had bus and rail/subway systems, I'd use them. But they don't. And they never will because someone would've done it by now. And I'm too damn old to walk everywhere, and riding a bike for long periods of times makes my balls feel weird (and not the good kind of weird).

Hey...TMI Friday!
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-19, 17:21



What he said.
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