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Do you trust Toyota?


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View Poll Results: Select all that apply:
My opinion of the Toyota brand remains the same considering recent developments. 24 51.06%
My opinion of the Toyota brand has degraded considering recent developments. 9 19.15%
If I were buying a car today, I would consider buying a Toyota despite recent developments. 22 46.81%
If I were buying a car today, I would no longer consider buying a Toyota because of recent developments. 3 6.38%
If I were buying a car today, I wouldn't have considered a Toyota regardless of recent developments 16 34.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

Do you trust Toyota?
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cosus
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2010-02-08, 11:33

With so many problems happening to them, and now their "Crown Jewel" being recalled and more than likely pushed back in the rest of the world, are they a brand name you still hold in high esteem? Analyst seem to think they could lose as much as 20% in sales... Perhaps we'll see VW as the #1 car producer soon?

Their success coming from low fuel economy, famed reliability and their, IMO, drab lines of cars (after they killed the Supra & MR2 it seems like fighting for the lowest common denominator), would you be interested in buying a Toyota if you were looking for a car today?

Retired 8 years ahead of schedule.
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curiousuburb
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2010-02-08, 11:45

The Ford Pinto called to say... TAG, You're it, suckers!
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2010-02-08, 11:51

They are handling this situation in the same manner as Tylenol did with the cyanide scare, IMO. They've stopped sales of 8 models of cars, some their bread and butter models, in order to fix them before causing more problems.

I dont know how laissez faire they were about the issue before that California family died, that would be of interest to me. If they were like Ford/GM and had their actuaries calculating risk of lawsuit vs. Cost of recall, then Toyota needs to be publicly crucified.
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Luca
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2010-02-08, 11:57

I added one option to your poll. Some people weren't interested in a Toyota even before the recalls.

That applies to me. When I bought my Honda a year and a half ago, I gave Toyota a cursory glance before deciding they didn't have anything that fit my needs. I've never been particularly interested in buying a Toyota; I think they're overrated. But my opinion of them hasn't changed because of their recent problems.

P.S. I'm guessing that almost everyone will vote for the first option over the second. People who didn't like Toyotas before won't have changed their opinions, and the loyal Toyota fans won't all of a sudden disavow their favorite car maker over a recall.
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zippy
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2010-02-08, 12:01

I think they just got too big a little too fast and quality control suffered. I've heard the CEO admit as much, and I think they are committed to fixing those issues.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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ezkcdude
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2010-02-08, 12:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy View Post
I think they just got too big a little too fast and quality control suffered. I've heard the CEO admit as much, and I think they are committed to fixing those issues.
Really? Too fast? Did you know Toyota was founded in 1937?
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 12:56

Toyota have always made fantastic cars. I've had many. Most of them pretty old and totally reliable super fast sports cars. I certainly wouldn't buy cars of that age or performance from any other manufacturer, except perhaps Mazda.

I think it's very clear that this "problem" plays well to the US and UK media with their car industries in absolute disarray at the moment. It was almost embarrassing how quickly and how violently the media picked up on this, particularly CNN. How about giving them 24 hours to find the problem rather than expecting an instant fix!?!?

They are fixing the problem. They are not going bust, and given that they gave feedback and announced a public plan within a day or so of this breaking I think they should be applauded. Oh, that any US or UK manufacturer could / or would deal with an issue like this so quickly or so honestly.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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Luca
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2010-02-08, 13:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
Toyota have always made fantastic cars. I've had many. Most of them pretty old and totally reliable super fast sports cars. I certainly wouldn't buy cars of that age or performance from any other manufacturer, except perhaps Mazda.

I think it's very clear that this "problem" plays well to the US and UK media with their car industries in absolute disarray at the moment. It was almost embarrassing how quickly and how violently the media picked up on this, particularly CNN. How about giving them 24 hours to find the problem rather than expecting an instant fix!?!?

They are fixing the problem. They are not going bust, and given that they gave feedback and announced a public plan within a day or so of this breaking I think they should be applauded. Oh, that any US or UK manufacturer could / or would deal with an issue like this so quickly or so honestly.
http://www.asiaone.com/Motoring/News...05-196940.html
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zippy
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2010-02-08, 13:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Really? Too fast? Did you know Toyota was founded in 1937?
I'm talking about their jump from #3 or 4 (or whatever they were) to #1 in the US over the course of what, two years or less? Yes they've been around a long time, and yes they've sold a bunch of cars. But jumping so quickly from wherever they were to #1 in the US was a significant change and their QA/QC did not keep up.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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ezkcdude
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2010-02-08, 13:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy View Post
I'm talking about their jump from #3 or 4 (or whatever they were) to #1 in the US over the course of what, two years or less? Yes they've been around a long time, and yes they've sold a bunch of cars. But jumping so quickly from wherever they were to #1 in the US was a significant change and their QA/QC did not keep up.
I think they went to #1 primarily because the US makers stunk up the place. Anyway, given the article Luca referenced, it's a moot point, if they knew about the problems in 2007.
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Robo
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2010-02-08, 14:13

I think it's going to turn out not to be the pedals they're replacing, I think it's going to be the software. I think there's going to be a massive scandal involving both Toyota and the NHTSA -- who knew what, and when. I have a horrible feeling that this is all just getting started.

I personally know two people-- my BFF Tay and our very own Carol -- who bought new Toyotas just before this all really erupted. The vehicles are likely fine (though the RAV4 is involved in the recall, Carol!) but the resale value of Toyotas will likely be shot.
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Mugge
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2010-02-08, 14:57

Never mind Toyota, the lawyers must be working themselves into a frenzy over this.

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addison
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2010-02-08, 15:00

Resale values shot? That's a bit overblown at this point. People for decades have known Toyota for building cars that are near bulletproof at times. Even now you have people at dealers interested in buying their cars because they trust the company to get it right. If the values did dip I would consider them if I was in the market but I'm cheap like that
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ezkcdude
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2010-02-08, 15:14

You guys remember the Audi 5000 fiasco? It took them years to shake that reputation. I know my mom still wouldn't even think about getting an Audi for that reason alone.

Quote:
Let’s set the scene: it’s 1984, and Audi sales had shot up 48 percent on the strength of their new aerodynamic 5000, the latest hot weapon in the perpetually-escalating suburban driveway status war. It was a stunning slick piece, and Audi was on a roll.

Suddenly, the war turned bloody. Moms in runaway Audi 5000’s were mowing down their little kids in the driveway and pinning granny against the far garage wall with the four-ringed front of the Audi.
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 15:17

You guys know my opinion.

But, it is lame that these issues goes back to 2004 and this recall does not effect those vehicles either. And Toyota tried to hide their Prius recall during the SuperBowl last night.

I found this yesterday.



I think it is accurate.

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH_fzCTiQE8&

Oh yeah you stopped production to protect us and not the NHTSA knocking at your door reminding you having a legal obligation to stop production....... Some nice spin.....

giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2010-02-08 at 15:27.
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Mugge
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2010-02-08, 15:31

I can't remember the title of the movie, but wasn't there some years ago something about some explodig fuel tanks on GM cars, Quagmire?

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ezkcdude
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2010-02-08, 15:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
I can't remember the title of the movie, but wasn't there some years ago something about some explodig fuel tanks on GM cars, Quagmire?

I think you're referring to this. In that case, the media (NBC) really blundered.
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Mugge
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2010-02-08, 15:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
I think you're referring to this. In that case, the media (NBC) really blundered.
I was referring to a feature length movie. Maybe it was based on the story that you linked to?
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 15:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
I can't remember the title of the movie, but wasn't there some years ago something about some explodig fuel tanks on GM cars, Quagmire?

Never said GM was immune to this either. But, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy Toyota's collapse( not literally) to the people who hold Toyota to having impeccable vehicles with no quality problems and say Toyota's actions are not acceptable. It is one thing to have a big recall( it is a common part put in vehicles that sold well), but it is another on ignoring it since this started happening back in 2004. It has been known for awhile that Toyota's quality has slipped( compare the interior to a 2004 Camry to a 2007 Camry. Quality on the 2004 is better). Just the fans I have noticed are not capable of criticizing Toyota. A companies best critics are their fans as if they are not happy, the company will suffer. If the people who keep on buying Toyota's can not criticize them, Toyota will not have any motivation to change and improve. The Big 3 found this out the hard way when they ignored the customer and we know what happened then.....

But, I believe it was with the Corvair where GM deemed it cheaper to deal with the lawsuits then to recall the vehicle over the steering column design flaw until Nader came out and brought it to light( anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong).

giggity
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Mugge
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2010-02-08, 15:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
(...) But, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy Toyota's collapse( not literally) to the people who hold Toyota to having impeccable vehicles with no quality problems and say Toyota's actions are acceptable. (...)

But, I believe it was with the Corvair where GM deemed it cheaper to deal with the lawsuits then to recall the vehicle over the steering column design flaw until Nader came out and brought it to light( anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong).
I'll take your word for it. You are after all the expert on the subject.



You can slam Toyota all you want, I don't have any emotions invested in them. But I happen to have a distinct dislike for GM. I don't know exactly why, but maybe it's because I'm fond to the US in so many other aspects that I need a little something to balance things out. Well, there might be some specific issues, but I'd rather not get into a discussion this late in the evening. I have to get up early tomorrow.

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addison
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2010-02-08, 17:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
You guys remember the Audi 5000 fiasco? It took them years to shake that reputation. I know my mom still wouldn't even think about getting an Audi for that reason alone.
The reality is that there was nothing wrong with the Audi 5000. Years later after the damage was done it was proven that there was no "sudden acceleration". Instead it was stupid people stepping on the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal. In the court case it came out that 60 Minutes rigged the car in their piece to get the desired results. Years later Dateline pulled a similar stunt to "prove" pickup trucks could catch on fire.

EDIT: I should have read your link first!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire
But, I believe it was with the Corvair where GM deemed it cheaper to deal with the lawsuits then to recall the vehicle over the steering column design flaw until Nader came out and brought it to light( anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong).
The steering column was rigid like most others of the day. Nader's main issue was that the Corvair had a defective rear suspension that could cause the driver to lose control and possible roll over. Of course the car was cleared after a government investigation but the damage was done. The Corvair was the last time GM dared to innovate. It's too bad.
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 21:44

Never heard of the source. Link doesn't work either.

On the European news it's being reported that Toyota are replacing a shim in each throttle pedal. Period.

It's amazing to me that at a time when the US is struggling out of recession all of a sudden it's selling arms again, also trying to put them in the Middle East, falling out with China and now the media is in a blood frenzy of histrionic misinformation / exaggeration about the biggest car manufacturer in the world....

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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Robo
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2010-02-08, 22:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
Resale values shot? That's a bit overblown at this point.
I agree, but I'm quite sure that "this point" is just going to be the tip of the iceberg. To by knowledge, nobody has produced an actual stuck pedal, which suggests that maybe stuck pedals aren't the problem. Which means that Toyota's pedal replacement recall will be ineffective. Which means...

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Chinney
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2010-02-08, 22:35

Bleh. I've never been a Toyota fan. I don't like the way their cars drive (muddy handling) and have never understood their 'mystique'. I suppose that they were popular because of their supposed better reliability, but I now wonder if that was merited.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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torifile
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2010-02-08, 22:36

My confusion about this stuck pedal thing is why didn't the drivers in runaway cars just put them in neutral? A mechanical problem would have easily been solved by this simple action.
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 22:37

I'd love to see how far back this goes. I've never had any problems with my 04 Corolla. Okay, the head lamp on the driver side burned out on Friday last week, not bad for a 7 year old car, but I'm willing to bet Toyota doesn't make the head lamps.

That being said, I'm not sure I'd buy a Toyota again after all of this. I don't like the design of the newer cars they make, including the one I own, and with steadily falling reliability over the last few years, I think I'll steer clear of them when I get my next car.
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 22:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
My confusion about this stuck pedal thing is why didn't the drivers in runaway cars just put them in neutral? A mechanical problem would have easily been solved by this simple action.
Toyota apparently put a feature in their cars to protect the engine/transmission that won't allow you to shift into neutral above 5000 RPM.

The bigger question is, why didn't they hit the brakes? The brakes can stop the car at WOT. Or in mid panic did they pump the brakes which did nothing?

giggity
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Robo
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2010-02-08, 22:50

Or they did press the brakes, but the software ignored that.

If a car is speeding out of control, the average driver's first instinct is going to be to slam on the brakes. I don't think "Maybe they just forgot to press the brakes?" is a valid line of inquiry.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 22:52

There was a guy in Oz that got stuck in his car on a highway, and it was reported that he couldn't "disengage cruise control". I don't even know the make of car....
In the end they had to do a "controlled crash" to stop him. The news program showed him being taken away on a stretcher in an area which could only be described as the boonies, with about a million police cars and ambulances there, and crash barriers and fields and nothing else for as far as the eye could see.... Even SUVs are not that hard to stop... Just drive into a muddy field....

I was forced to wonder the same thing you guys are wondering..
Perhaps my knowledge of "modern" cars is out of date, but if I had a throttle, braking problem there are a myriad of other things I'd try before considering myself out of control. I am a very confident driver - I race - so perhaps it's something to do with that....

But I'd try my Brake, Handbrake, forcing it into lower gears, or even reverse, sticking my foot under the throttle peddle to pull it up, even perhaps use my hands, pulling the ignition key / dongle out... the list goes on and on... I'd even as a last ditch scrape my car against something until it slowed down enough that I could crash it myself...

I just don't understand how anyone who has a modicum of driving ability can get into these kinds of situations. And if they can I don't think they should have a license.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 22:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Or they did press the brakes, but the software ignored that.

If a car is speeding out of control, the average driver's first instinct is going to be to slam on the brakes. I don't think "Maybe they just forgot to press the brakes?" is a valid line of inquiry.
Well according to Toyota, this isn't a matter of software ignoring the brakes. It is a matter of a physical piece getting stuck. The brakes can stop a car even with all 268 HP trying to move the Camry. The brakes can stop a 550 HP GT500 going at WOT. Drivers especially in a panic are not the brightest people out there. They probably go into Pre-ABS day thinking and pump the brakes( which prevented lock up) which don't do anything to stop the car. Or they ignored tell tale signs of needing their pads replaced and the pads were worn out when they tried to stop...... If all else fails, turn the car off. You will lose the power assistance, but you can still maintain control and brake and the engine is off.

giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2010-02-08 at 23:15.
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