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September 10 iPhone Event


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September 10 iPhone Event
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 11:34

It's here.

Expect new iPhones 11 (or Pro something or other) and maybe new Apple Watch models.

Very slim possibility for new iPads and Macs, but I think this will be reserved for October.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-29, 11:43

Judging by the invite, it looks like the leaked pale green and lavender colors for the XR successor are a thing.
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 11:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
It's here.

Expect new iPhones 11 (or Pro something or other) and maybe new Apple Watch models.

Very slim possibility for new iPads and Macs, but I think this will be reserved for October.
My guess for September 10th:
  • iPhone 11 / iPhone 11 Pro
  • Apple Watch Series 5 (possibly not a big bump this year around after having received non-stop significant updates each year, but I don't think they'll skip the generation altogether) + some Health/Fitness stuff
  • services (TV+, Arcade, maybe some bundle announcement, maybe an update on News+)
  • recap on iOS 13, iPadOS 13, watchOS 6, possibly tvOS and audioOS (HomePod)
  • long shot: Tile competitor

Then, for October:
  • iPad 7 (likely not called that)
  • iPad Pro (I'm not really sure we'll see another update here but it is rumored, so…)
  • 16-inch MacBook Pro, possibly 14-inch as well
  • update on the Mac Pro and Pro XDR Display*
  • recap on macOS 10.15 Catalina (maybe iPadOS 13? this split makes things awkward)
  • maaaaaaaaybe Mac mini with Coffee Lake Refresh (up to 8 cores) to bring it in line with the iMac

*) the website briefly suggested they would launch in September, so maybe not?

The Mac mini might also just launch silently. If the Mac Pro + display launch in September, they might still get another shout-out in October.
 
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 11:59

The Mac Mini will only get jabber time if it's an industrial design change.

Otherwise, I think you are correct, although I don't think the iPad OS breakout is awkward, because any iPad-specific features can be talked about separately.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2019-08-29, 12:06

I’m not expecting huge advances on the Apple Watch after last year’s massive change, either, but it seems like at least new case materials are on the docket, along with the S5 and whatever else.

I can’t figure out what’s up with the rumored new iPad. The “base” model is due for an upgrade, but all the rumors are saying it’ll have a 10.2-inch display? That just makes no sense to me. The only reason I can think that Apple would introduce another roughly-ten-inch iPad screen size is if they were changing over to an all-screen Liquid Retina design with a different aspect ratio. But I don’t think the base iPad is about to make that leap, before the higher-end iPad Air and mini do. Like, the base iPad doesn’t even have the laminated display yet.

I would be overjoyed if the 14-inch Pro came out this fall, but I don’t think it will. I think it will be another 2012 Retina MacBook Pro transition, where they come out with the big model first and then its little brother later. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the 16-inch model was positioned above the 15-inch model, at least initially.

If Apple finally fixes their laptop keyboard, but only on a $3,000 model, that’s really not going to be a good look.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 12:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
If Apple finally fixes their laptop keyboard, but only on a $3,000 model, that’s really not going to be a good look.
I don't think the keyboard is changing.



As far as the iPad goes, a screen size change makes no sense to me. The lineup is currently too confusing for the customer. Too many models, too many screen sizes. Of note, my boss just informed me that both of our distributors are entirely out of base model 6th-gen iPads, which means updates are likely. Honestly, though, I just don't see what that thing needs. It's good enough for everyone who buys it. If they bump its specs, then what makes the iPad Air so special (it's pretty hard to sort that out as it stands ).

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
 
Robo
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2019-08-29, 12:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I don't think the keyboard is changing.
It 100% is. Repairing faulty keyboards at no cost for four years comes at a hefty cost to Apple, and the butterfly keyboard is already more expensive than traditional options. And well-connected sources like Ming-Chi Kuo have already reported details on the new keyboard.

More to the point, no one is going to accept Apple’s claims of “we really listened to our pro users this time, promise!” if they ship a new MacBook Pro built around the current keyboard. That keyboard gets more ink than all the rest of the Mac line and it is uniformly negative. It’s an albatross for the Mac.

Even if the butterfly keyboards weren’t so fragile, it’d be Apple’s New Coke moment, a strategic misstep where they thought their users would grow to accept something that they didn’t want to accept. Throw in the fact that they break, and it’s like if New Coke also made everyone sick.

They’re going to change it.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-08-29, 12:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
The Mac Mini will only get jabber time if it's an industrial design change.
Yeah, almost certainly true. Silent spec bump later this year (hopefully?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Otherwise, I think you are correct, although I don't think the iPad OS breakout is awkward, because any iPad-specific features can be talked about separately.
Yeah, but do they repeat some of the iOS 13 stuff again? For a third time, after WWDC and September? Or do they focus only on the iPad things?
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 12:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I’m not expecting huge advances on the Apple Watch after last year’s massive change, either, but it seems like at least new case materials are on the docket, along with the S5 and whatever else.
Yeah, but I think that's exactly why. They're making material (no pun intended) changes because that's mostly it for this year. (Which is fine.)

Given the Noise stuff in watchOS 6, possibly better mics in Series 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I can’t figure out what’s up with the rumored new iPad. The “base” model is due for an upgrade, but all the rumors are saying it’ll have a 10.2-inch display? That just makes no sense to me. The only reason I can think that Apple would introduce another roughly-ten-inch iPad screen size is if they were changing over to an all-screen Liquid Retina design with a different aspect ratio. But I don’t think the base iPad is about to make that leap, before the higher-end iPad Air and mini do. Like, the base iPad doesn’t even have the laminated display yet.
I think you're reading too much into that. It's just a slightly different display size; it doesn't have to imply a redesign. iPad Pro and Air sizes have been all over the place in the past, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I would be overjoyed if the 14-inch Pro came out this fall, but I don’t think it will. I think it will be another 2012 Retina MacBook Pro transition, where they come out with the big model first and then its little brother later. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the 16-inch model was positioned above the 15-inch model, at least initially.

If Apple finally fixes their laptop keyboard, but only on a $3,000 model, that’s really not going to be a good look.
If the specs I'm looking for (basically just 32 GB RAM; everything else is secondary) aren't that much of a price bump compared to the 15-inch, I'm OK with it either way.
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 13:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I don't think the keyboard is changing.
I'm going to get rich and famous as the guy who traveled to Cupertino to smash a window in Apple Park, hug a tree, then travel back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
As far as the iPad goes, a screen size change makes no sense to me. The lineup is currently too confusing for the customer. Too many models, too many screen sizes. Of note, my boss just informed me that both of our distributors are entirely out of base model 6th-gen iPads, which means updates are likely. Honestly, though, I just don't see what that thing needs. It's good enough for everyone who buys it. If they bump its specs, then what makes the iPad Air so special (it's pretty hard to sort that out as it stands ).
I don't know that it really needs an update either, but Apple finally seems to be back in a place where they can update virtually all of their computers somewhat frequently. Mac Pro, Mac mini, MacBook Air, iPad mini, basically everything that went for an absurdly long time without an update is now getting them again. (Well, once, anyway. I suppose we don't technically know if there will ever be a 2020 specbump for the Mac mini, iPad mini, etc.) So if they want to update it after a year and a half, sure, why not. It's on an A10, and maybe they want to start phasing that one out. (Though there are older chips still, like the A8 in HomePod.)

As for the line-up, is it really that confusing? There's one if you're willing to spend ~$300, two if you can do $500, and two if you can do $800-1000. Seems pretty great to me.

-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
More to the point, no one is going to accept Apple’s claims of “we really listened to our pro users this time, promise!” if they ship a new MacBook Pro built around the current keyboard. That keyboard gets more ink than all the rest of the Mac line and it is uniformly negative. It’s an albatross for the Mac.

Even if the butterfly keyboards weren’t so fragile, it’d be Apple’s New Coke moment, a strategic misstep where they thought their users would grow to accept something that they didn’t want to accept. Throw in the fact that they break, and it’s like if New Coke also made everyone sick.
Yeah.

At the very least, they need to start acknowledging what's going on beyond a "a small number of customers are experi…zzzzzZZZZ" repair program / PR message, even if they spin it as "it may have been a misstep, but you're gonna love the hell out of this new one".
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-29, 13:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I think you're reading too much into that. It's just a slightly different display size; it doesn't have to imply a redesign. iPad Pro and Air sizes have been all over the place in the past, too.
I don’t know. There has been five display sizes of iPad and they’re all currently represented in the line. There hasn’t been any that were just one-offs or transitional sizes. The 10.5-inch seemed like it might be that, but then they put it in their new midrange Air. And when they decided to make a midrange iPad again, they didn’t give it a new weird in-between 10.3 inch screen, they gave it one of the screen sizes they were already using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
If the specs I'm looking for (basically just 32 GB RAM; everything else is secondary) aren't that much of a price bump compared to the 15-inch, I'm OK with it either way.
I’ve been trying to wait it out but I like, need need a new MacBook this fall, which is…not great timing. If they introduce the 14-inch MacBook Pro I am 100% getting that and I will be happy all of my days. If they introduce the 16-inch MacBook Pro and it replaces the 15-inch…honestly that’s more than I want to spend (and carry) but I’d probably stretch and get it. If it’s some $3299 model on top of the current 15-inch line…eeeeeehhhhh…I’d be pretty miffed, honestly.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-08-29, 13:35

Most likely in for two iPhones for the wife an dI.

Skipped last year for the first time since the iPhones came out. Just didn't' feel like a worthy upgrade.

This year seems like it's going to be another incremental upgrade, but since it'll be a two year upgrade for me, it'll be nice to have.
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 13:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I don’t know. There has been five display sizes of iPad and they’re all currently represented in the line. There hasn’t been any that were just one-offs or transitional sizes. The 10.5-inch seemed like it might be that, but then they put it in their new midrange Air.
I don't know that that was always the plan. Seems weird to me.

(Maybe it was always intended for the Air, and they needed it on the Pro first because the 2018 Pro design wasn't ready?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
And when they decided to make a midrange iPad again, they didn’t give it a new weird in-between 10.3 inch screen, they gave it one of the screen sizes they were already using.
Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I, like, need need a new MacBook this fall, which is…great timing. If they introduce the 14-inch MacBook Pro I am 100% getting that and I will be happy all of my days. If they introduce the 16-inch MacBook Pro and it replaces the 15-inch…honestly that’s more than I want to spend (and carry) but I’d probably stretch and get it. If it’s some $3299 model on top of the current 15-inch line…eeeeeehhhhh…I’d be pretty miffed, honestly.
I hear you on needing something. I'm definitely stretching this one… first because there was no 32 GB RAM option (until mid last year), but also still because of the keyboard.

I also get that my needs are… hardly mainstream. But for me, it would only be a few hundred dollars worth of difference anyway:
  • I can either start out with the $2,399 and add $400 for the RAM and $200 for the storage, for a total of $2,999.
  • Or with the $2,799 which already includes the storage, but not the RAM (and basically adds a slightly nicer CPU and GPU, which actually isn't that bad a deal for $200). So, $3,199.
  • It's easy to imagine a $3,299 16-inch configuration on top of that, and for that to already include both the storage and the RAM. At that point, I'd only spend another $100 more.

What's yet another $100 for a better keyboard, bigger screen, snappier™ everything? In the grand scheme of f-it-I'm-going-all-in things, basically nothing.

Of course, if you start out with a 14-inch, that's a different ballgame — you might "even" get away with below $2k.
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 13:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
Most likely in for two iPhones for the wife an dI.

Skipped last year for the first time since the iPhones came out. Just didn't' feel like a worthy upgrade.

This year seems like it's going to be another incremental upgrade, but since it'll be a two year upgrade for me, it'll be nice to have.
I picked the 8 in 2017 in part because I couldn't wait much longer. My 6S kept breaking and my 5S was getting really long in the tooth (I might have gotten away with replacing its battery, maybe?). But also, I wasn't sure then on the X design and on Face ID, and wanted others to be the guinea pig.

I'm still not really sure today. The 8 is kind of boring, but also trusty?

Like, the bleeding-edge gotta-have-betas guy inside me wants the iPhone 11. But really mostly for stuff like multiple cameras, portrait mode, that sort of thing.

I… mostly just want it to work.
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-29, 13:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Honestly, though, I just don't see what that thing needs. It's good enough for everyone who buys it.
That’s kind of weird logic, though. I mean, the $149 Fire 10 is good enough for the people that buy it, too. They give it good reviews! The point of Apple is to be better than “good enough,” to surprise and delight you in ways you didn’t expect. That’s why the Apple brand is so valuable and why they can charge twice as much as Amazon for their ten-inch tablet.

I’m sure the circa-2015 MacBook Air Apple was selling until this summer was “good enough” for a lot of people, too, but that doesn’t mean they should keep selling it forever with no updates. The competition gets better every year. People’s standards go up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
If they bump its specs, then what makes the iPad Air so special (it's pretty hard to sort that out as it stands ).
Holding back one product to protect another is the sort of pernicious idea that, once it takes root, slowly strangles a company. Apple has always bee emphatic about avoiding this sort of thinking, about pushing each product to be the best it can be, even if that challenges the other teams to make their products more capable.

A 9.7-inch version of the current iPad Air is pretty much exactly what I’d expect the next base iPad to look like. Which is fine, because I’d expect the iPad Air to get better too.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
Robo
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2019-08-29, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Of course, if you start out with a 14-inch, that's a different ballgame — you might "even" get away with below $2k.
I always figured I would get whatever was equivalent of the current $1799 four-port MacBook Pro — the base “real” Pro with the higher-watt processors — and then bump the RAM up, because of course the base config wouldn’t have enough. So, like, $2k.

I’m sure the 14-inch Pro will come with a bit of a price bump, because this is Apple, but there’s a big difference between $2200 and like $3300 for me. If the 16-inch started at $2399, like the current 15-inch, I would maybe stretch and get it, even though I’d really want something smaller. But at $3299 or thereabouts, I just wouldn’t, even if that was a fair price for the computer. I’d probably just get the cheapest Pro I could (because I am not spending $2k on a computer with that keyboard) and be sad about it.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 14:21

The point I am making is that a 10.3" iPad and a 10.5" iPad Air with similar specs have no business living in the same product lineup. This is like that old 13" non-Touchbar MacBook Pro. Buy the MacBook Air and save yourself $200!

A 10.3" iPad will make the iPad Air a goofy product in the lineup. I agree you cannot be stagnant and all that, but products that exist for the purpose of existing serve no purpose other than to confuse the customer, and if the customer is confused, then the lineup needs adjusting (we will do that ourselves if forced to). I don't care if there are 10 iPads in the lineup, as long as all 10 of them have a clearly defined purpose over any of the other 9. Anything less and the iPad Air would then exist in that space of "we're taking it off the floor because the customer cannot sort out why the hell they would ever buy that over this other, cheaper thing that does all the same stuff."

If the new iPad and the existing iPad Air both have nearly identical screen sizes, and nearly identical internals, then the more expensive of the two has no reason for existing, and I have no problem whatsoever shoving it off to the side into "please don't bother" land. I sell the product that is the best fit for the customer, not the best fit for Apple.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2019-08-29, 14:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
The point I am making is that a 10.3" iPad and a 10.5" iPad Air with similar specs have no business living in the same product lineup. This is like that old 13" non-Touchbar MacBook Pro. Buy the MacBook Air and save yourself $200!

A 10.3" iPad will make the iPad Air a goofy product in the lineup.
I think we agree.

I mean, any improvements to the base iPad take away a reason to upgrade to the Air. But that isn’t a reason that Apple should just sit on the base iPad because it’s good enough; it’s just a reason to also keep improving the Air.

I actually hope that the next base iPad is so similar to the current Air and mini that they keep the mini around and just “demote” it. I think Apple makes a mini version of the wrong iPad. People are always confused why the iPad mini is more expensive than the regular iPad, and the name doesn’t help. It’s really an iPad Air mini, but I don’t think people understand this and I’m not sure that’s what people want. They should really be selling a mini version of the base iPad.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 14:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
That’s kind of weird logic, though. I mean, the $149 Fire 10 is good enough for the people that buy it, too. They give it good reviews! The point of Apple is to be better than “good enough,” to surprise and delight you in ways you didn’t expect. That’s why the Apple brand is so valuable and why they can charge twice as much as Amazon for their ten-inch tablet.
Ehhhhhhh. That Fire is garbage (a garbage fire, you could say) even compared to the low-end iPad before the current one. And it’s not just the price.

You basically have to go way up to the Surface Go in price to get something non-Apple that doesn’t suck.

The current low-end iPad is not a bad tablet, nor a bad iPad.
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-29, 14:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Ehhhhhhh. That Fire is garbage (a garbage fire, you could say) even compared to the low-end iPad before the current one. And it’s not just the price.

You basically have to go way up to the Surface Go in price to get something non-Apple that doesn’t suck.
I agree completely. The Fire is shit. But Fire owners like it; they give it good reviews. They think it’s “good enough.”

That was what I was trying to say. “It’s good enough, for the people who buy it” really isn’t good enough, for a brand like Apple. Any old shit will be good enough to people who don’t know any better, but Apple shouldn’t be in the business of selling any old shit. That’s why we get so frustrated when we feel that there are Macs that we feel we have to warn our friends and family not to get. It goes against the whole idea of Apple being a quality brand.

I’m not saying the current iPad is “any old shit.” I think honestly they could ride it until next spring and update it and the Air at the same time and that’d be perfectly fine. (Maybe an upgrade in storage in the meantime would be nice.) But all the leaks say that’s not happening, that there’s some weird new slightly-bigger-but-still-not-Air-sized new base iPad coming this fall. So who knows.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 14:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I think we agree.
Mostly. Other than the part where we don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I mean, any improvements to the base iPad take away a reason to upgrade to the Air. But that isn’t a reason that Apple should just sit on the base iPad because it’s good enough; it’s just a reason to also keep improving the Air.
Apple is one of those companies where the middle product is currently misplaced, across the entire product line. It's the "we've got $X to spend" and Apple has a product that costs $X. Where the iPad Pro is very different than the other iPads in a lot of very unique and obvious ways, the iPad Air and the iPad are, well, too close. And the iPad Mini is, um, a small (and very good) iPad Air (and should actually be the iPad Air!)?

And with iPads, I'm just not sure there is a way to differentiate the product line with clear and concise devices other than "iPad" and "iPad Pro". Middle devices are just there to fill a price slot, and their feature set just isn't needed (or wanted) by most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
They should really be selling a mini version of the base iPad.
Exactly! Actually, after adjusting my comment above, it occurred to me that the iPad Mini should be the iPad Air, not the Mini. It is the smallest, lightest, and "Air-iest" of the iPads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
The current low-end iPad is not a bad tablet, nor a bad iPad.
Exactly!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-08-29 at 15:06.
 
Robo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-29, 15:05

I’d wager the iPad/iPad Air weirdness is going to be short-lived. I think next spring is going to be when the “middle iPad” goes all-screen. That’ll make it a lot different than the base model (and a lot more like the Pro, which is why they seem to be adding features like the fancy iPhone camera array to the iPad Pro).

Still, it’s going to be a weird few months. It would be nice if Apple could just refresh their whole iPad line-up at once, like they do with iPhones.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-29, 15:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I’d wager the iPad/iPad Air weirdness is going to be short-lived. I think next spring is going to be when the “middle iPad” goes all-screen. That’ll make it a lot different than the base model (and a lot more like the Pro, which is why they seem to be adding features like the fancy iPhone camera array to the iPad Pro).

Still, it’s going to be a weird few months. It would be nice if Apple could just refresh their whole iPad line-up at once, like they do with iPhones.
1) Making the iPad Air more like the iPad Pro would then blur the line between those two and the problem is suddenly focused at the upper end rather than the lower.

2) Doing them all at once would definitely help to alleviate the problem.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
 
chucker
 
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2019-08-29, 15:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I’m sure the circa-2015 MacBook Air Apple was selling until this summer was “good enough” for a lot of people, too, but that doesn’t mean they should keep selling it forever with no updates. The competition gets better every year. People’s standards go up.
OK sure, but I don't think the two compare.

The MacBook Air, by around 2017, was basically an outdated computer that maybe they could've kept selling for a while at like $749. I don't even think they kept the price point to keep the revenues high, but rather because having such a low-cost Mac is weird messaging if you're gonna drop it soon after (marketing is complicated, y'all).

The iPad 2018 isn't that. Sure, it only has an A10, but it has a Retina Display (unlike said MacBook Air), and even has some Pencil support.

If that iPad were the only iPad Apple is selling, we'd be asking, "is Apple gonna introduce a higher-end iPad eventually?" We wouldn't be asking, "hey, why does the iPad suck so hard?" — because it doesn't. It obliterates any Android tablet (which in part is really Google's screw-up rather than Apple's success, but still) and then some.

If the old MacBook Air is your first Mac, you'll come away thinking, "well, that was a little pricey, and the Mac honestly doesn't seem all it's cracked up to be". If the iPad 2018 is your first iPad, it'll be "this is pretty great. Maybe my next one will be higher-end!"

If it weren't for education, if I were running iPad marketing, I'd bump the price points on the iPad 2018 and iPad Air $100 each. The 2018 is a steal right now, and moving it upwards makes the Air a weird in-between. But Apple needs to work on their education customers (no, seriously, figure it out, Apple), so the price point makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Holding back one product to protect another is the sort of pernicious idea that, once it takes root, slowly strangles a company. Apple has always bee emphatic about avoiding this sort of thinking, about pushing each product to be the best it can be, even if that challenges the other teams to make their products more capable.
Well, yes and no. The counterpoint to cannibalization I would make is the paralysis of choice. I tend not to agree, but I can see kscherer's point — if they upgrade the iPad 2018, it becomes even harder to understand why you'd even go for the Air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
A 9.7-inch version of the current iPad Air is pretty much exactly what I’d expect the next base iPad to look like. Which is fine, because I’d expect the iPad Air to get better too.
Sure. But Apple tends not to coordinate such upgrades, so there'd be a weird period in between that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I always figured I would get whatever was equivalent of the current $1799 four-port MacBook Pro — the base “real” Pro with the higher-watt processors — and then bump the RAM up, because of course the base config wouldn’t have enough. So, like, $2k.

I’m sure the 14-inch Pro will come with a bit of a price bump, because this is Apple, but there’s a big difference between $2200 and like $3300 for me. If the 16-inch started at $2399, like the current 15-inch, I would maybe stretch and get it, even though I’d really want something smaller. But at $3299 or thereabouts, I just wouldn’t, even if that was a fair price for the computer. I’d probably just get the cheapest Pro I could (because I am not spending $2k on a computer with that keyboard) and be sad about it.
Yeah, no, I'm not expecting most (or even many) people to go for a $3,299 MBP, especially now that Apple has, well, slightly reduced the confidence we have in that product.
 
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-08-29, 15:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
1) Making the iPad Air more like the iPad Pro would then blur the line between those two and the problem is suddenly focused at the upper end rather than the lower.

2) Doing them all at once would definitely help to alleviate the problem.
Yup. But that's extremely unlikely, as the Air is basically half a year old. That's almost certainly not the plan.
 
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2019-08-29, 15:27

@chucker: I think you’re reading my posts as being more negative toward the current base iPad than I intended. I don’t think it’s a bad product; I apologize if I wasn’t clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Making the iPad Air more like the iPad Pro would then blur the line between those two and the problem is suddenly focused at the upper end rather than the lower.
But what’s the alternative? Never making the non-Pro iPads all-screen? Of course they’ll make the other iPads all-screen, blurred lines or no.

The iPad Pro will continue to feature the A-X variant chip. It’ll have more RAM. It’ll have four speakers. It’ll have ProMotion. It’ll have USB-C. It’ll have, if the rumors are true, vastly better cameras. It’ll have the bigger screen option. It’ll have the bigger storage options. There’s plenty to differentiate the lines, even if we assume the middle iPad would have the same 11-inch screen size. And it might not, Apple seems to have no problem introducing new iPad screen sizes.

I could easily see the next midrange iPad borrowing a lot from the current iPad Pro design with some cutbacks, just as the current iPad Air is similar to the previous-generation Pro. But that’s okay, because there will be a new Pro by then, with the faster chip and the new cameras and who knows what else.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-08-29, 15:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
@chucker: I think you’re reading my posts as being more negative toward the current base iPad than I intended. I don’t think it’s a bad product; I apologize if I wasn’t clear.
Fair enough. My mistake.
 
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2019-08-29, 16:14

Nah, I should have been clearer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Judging by the invite, it looks like the leaked pale green and lavender colors for the XR successor are a thing.
I guess the rumor is they’re going to replace coral with these? Coral is notably absent from the illustration on the invite. Coral was my favorite color though. I wonder if they’re deliberately moving toward paler, more muted colors to make the phone feel more “premium.” I like the bright colors…

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-08-29, 17:13

I miss my blue iPod mini and iPod nano.
 
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2019-08-29, 17:14

So, the current Apple TV HD (that Apple is still selling for…the same price) came out in fall 2015, and the Apple TV 4K came out in fall 2017. I think it’s interesting that we’re definitely due for another Apple TV device and, like, nobody cares. And this is supposed to be one of Apple’s four (now five, with iPadOS) pillars, one of their app platforms!

I know we talked about this in the “GamePod” thread but it seems like Apple really needs to rethink the Apple TV hardware…again.

Honestly the closest Apple TV ever came to being a genuine hit was when the third-generation model dropped to $69. They flew off the shelves then. That was what people wanted, a cheap player for iTunes stuff and streaming stuff and AirPlay stuff on their TV. And the tvOS-powered Apple TV was way more capable and way more elegant and nobody wanted it (outside of Apple loyalists), because it was way more expensive and honestly all the stuff it added wasn’t essential. It didn’t really take off as game platform in the same way iOS had. Nobody wanted to look at the Realtor app on their TV or whatever the heck Apple was trying to demo to show off the app-based future of television. People just wanted to watch stuff. Honestly the standout feature was the voice control, and voice remotes quickly became available on much cheaper products.

I think Apple should go back to that $69 streaming-focused Apple TV and make a modern version of that. Keep tvOS but don’t try to make it an app experience. You know how watchOS sort of evolved away from focusing on that honeycomb app view? tvOS should do the same. It should be built around the TV app, not a grid of icons. It needs to be turned inside out.

And make it way cheaper, because nobody is buying $150-200 anything to plug into their TV. It’s no man’s land. You can buy a whole smart TV for $200.

This presumably means they’ll have to get rid of the current touch-sensitive remote, but I’m not sure people will be shedding any tears over that. They should just make a good TV experience for people who either don’t have a smart TV or want a less terrible experience, and then price it to be as accessible as possible (so they can sell everyone TV+).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
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