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Future MBP GPU?
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wush
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-05-20, 18:39

I know a lot of people, myself included, are waiting for the Merom-equipped MacBook Pros.

It just occurred to me that my real concern is the same X1600 GPU present all the way up to the high end. The current Core Duo (Yonah) is one of the fastest consumer CPUs out there, whilst supposedly only being a stop-gap before Merom. The X1600 GPU is already decidely mid-range and a plain old CPU upgrade is going to create a seriously imbalanced notebook. I'm a games player and developer. I want to buy a Mac, but I can see this being a real concern.

Do you think we will see a GPU upgrade or BTO option in future MBPs?
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ShadowOfGed
Travels via TARDIS
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earthsea
 
2006-05-20, 18:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by wush
Do you think we will see a GPU upgrade or BTO option in future MBPs?
We will definitely not see any BTO/CTO options for graphics cards in portables for quite some time. Unlike desktops, where different PCI-e cards can be swapped in and out at will, a portable is designed to be so compact that the GPU is soldered directly onto the logic board (or motherboard, for all you PC people).

Thus, the only way for GPUs in laptops to be CTO is to have several pin-compatible GPUs. Chances are this will not happen, but I could be wrong.

And though the X1600 is a mid-range GPU, I do not see a GPU upgrade in the near future for MacBook Pros. Look at the heat generated by the current MacBooks Pros. I'm typing on one, and I've got to say, it gets QUITE hot in some areas. None that I touch when using it on a table, but my lap would be hurting. Adding a faster GPU or just a GPU with more features (thus more transistors) would increase its power dissipation, decrease battery life, and make the "laptop" experience downright painful if it gets too hot.



The X1600 is nothing to sneeze at. It seems to run games pretty well under Windows using Boot Camp, so it seems fine to me. Don't let spec whoring cloud your judgement. There's poor quality, good quality, and "overkill." Much more than the X1600 in a portable appliction would likely be overkill. But that's just what I think.


Apparently I call the cops when I see people litter.
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RobM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-05-20, 20:01

http://www.alienware.com/news_pages/news.aspx and
http://www.alienware.com/Product_Pag...l_default.aspx

Good heavens - 17" and 19" models w SLI via 2 g cards in a laptop !
I'd wonder about the heat.
Who knows what will be in future mbp's ?

edit: just read a little more on these aliens - also 2 hd's can be striped or mirrored, pretty cool.

Last edited by RobM : 2006-05-20 at 21:14.
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World Leader Pretend
Ruling teh World
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
 
2006-05-20, 22:14

Except the Alienware laptop weighs 15 pounds!
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Engine Joe
Going Strange...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 
2006-05-20, 22:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend
Except the Alienware laptop weighs 15 pounds!
Holy shit, WLP isn't kidding! Yeep!
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2006-05-20, 22:43

Well, lets call them, portable desktops to be fair.
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RobM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-05-20, 23:09

I've heard (yet to be confirmed) they throw in a pair of flame retardant pants - quite a deal.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-05-21, 00:52

There's nothing wrong with the current MBP GPUs. I think RAM boosts will be it for a while. The question of battery life is a serious one. What I've been reading suggests that Apple's machines aren't nearly the class leaders they once were. Do either of ATI or nVidia have designs coming that seriously enhance power saving without sacrificing performance?

More interested to see what they might do with the MB

Merom will in all likelihood be accompanied by a mobile chipset update, though perhaps not immediately, that incorporates Broadwater. The GMA 965 of this unit is supposed to have much improved 3D support and memory bandwidth. Still integrated, but a lot better from what I've read:

Quote:
"It will be interesting to see how this new chipset performs. The dual DDR800 memory channels will theoretically allow up to 12.8GB/sec memory bandwidth; and the 1066MHz FSB will allow for 8.5GB/sec bandwidth to the CPU - leaving up to 4.3GB/sec bandwidth for the GPU or peripherals for accessing memory (ignoring memory contention overhead) - in practical terms this means that even 32 bit color 1280x1024 Windows desktop display will have a negligable impact on memory bandwith.
If Apple re-introduces a small screen pro laptop along the lines of the 12" PB. Likely a 13.3" though much slimmer and lighter than the MacBook, something like 965 could be it's graphics core...

.........................................
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JK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2006-05-21, 02:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu
Do either of ATI or nVidia have designs coming that seriously enhance power saving without sacrificing performance?
I'd be interested in this too.

Is some sort of a dual core GPU possible? Instead of running at say 500 mhz, could the GPU be a dual core 250 mhz processor?
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jamie
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
 
2006-05-21, 02:59

There is a standard or should I say a few standards. First there's MXM for Mobile PCI-Express Module, developed by nVidia. ATI has stated they would support it if requested by manufactures. There's also AXIOM, developed by ATI. Problem appears to be getting widespread support for either considering the unique engineering challenges for laptops - heat/power.

Certainly it's possible for Apple to choose a standard that supports a wide range of GPUs from one vendor. The question is, is it cost effective?

Intel's GPUs generally compete at the low end of performance. I don't see this changing. That said game studios know who's king of the mobile graphics market - Intel.

I think the x1600 is an excellent tradeoff between performance/heat/power. As a developer and game player myself, I care about performance. I'm willing to trade some performance for power savings, but completely unwilling to trade on features. It's a continuum.

Now to stay on topic - I speculate Apple will continue to ship x1600 with Merom. Further I doubt Apple will change GPUs this year.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-05-21, 12:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK47
I'd be interested in this too.

Is some sort of a dual core GPU possible? Instead of running at say 500 mhz, could the GPU be a dual core 250 mhz processor?
geForce 8 series are dual-core. DX10. GDDR4 memory
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2006-05-21, 14:54

Holy crap, there's a GeForce 8? I am behind.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-05-21, 17:15

They're not out yet, but they're due sooner than later. It's incredible how NVidia and ATI make money. I remember the GeForce 2 was the flagship for like 2 years. The GeForce 3 was around for like 6 months before the 4 was announced. Every since then they've been on a one-year product cycle for the most part.

It's ridiculous too. My comp has an 9600xt and it runs almost all games acceptably. Sure, I run HL2 with my effects at medium, but it runs flawlessly and still looks pretty!
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JK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2006-05-21, 17:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by tensdanny38
geForce 8 series are dual-core. DX10. GDDR4 memory
I'm curious - do you have any more info about the geForce 8? Release date, clock speed, etc.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-05-21, 17:29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8

mostly rumors to this point evidentally, but it is all but confirmed to be dual-core, dx10, and gddr4 with ps4.0
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