[Wrao]

I was on Youtube today and I couldn't help but notice that on almost every single video I viewed, the comments section was absolutely filled with spam. In particular there was a particularly humorous one that said (in variations) "Hey, not bad, this site has great camz www dot cams dot com". It didn't used to be like that. When I used to use MySpace, I remember when I first got into it, I only ever got messages and comments from real people, but as time progressed, it got to the point where I was receiving multiple messages a day from fake profiles. Outside of that, and back to the youtube example, the comments from people seem to have gotten dumber. Maybe I've been watching the wrong videos, but it just seems like people don't even try at all anymore, with nearly every comment being a mess of internet shorthand "omg, ur 2 kewlz1 lol".

I sold some items through craigslist not too long ago, I received over a dozen emails on each item from scammers and/or spammers. I remember when it was relatively easy and straight forward to post questions on webforums, these days it seems like every single forum requires multiple steps to register, some even have 24 hour posting delays, or other such BS, some won't even let you search without being a member. I seem to be seeing more of this today than I remember.

All around, it just seems like there is a larger noise:signal ratio on the internet than ever before and it is constantly growing and getting worse. Almost every time I feel like posting on a forum or commenting on something or otherwise interacting with the internet, I almost inevitably opt out of doing it these days, and it is very rare that I actually end up hitting the post button. Largely because it just seems like the internet has, for the most part, become pretty shitty.

But, maybe I just use it too much...

[Wrao]

Well, I just stumbled upon a slew of sights that use obscure characters as the URL, so I guess the internet is getting better.
http://www.℥.com/
http://www.√.com/
http://www.⇔.com/

etc... etc..

[Zodiac]

Worse easily, any idiot you see on the street these days has internet access and it's actually kind of trendy these days to spam and troll and talk a lot of shit. In real life too no one really seems to give a fuck about anything.

I hope the people I've known will have shaped up a bit once I'm out of highschool, and myself.

[autodata]

Definitely been bothered by it, too. I really think digg is indicative of many of the current problems: extremely low quality comments, articles consist of massive quantities of spam padded with paid for comments and targeted at the kind of people who make really low quality comments. There are whole online marketing firms built around the idea that online users are fucking stupid and, it appears, they are right. The most obvious example (well, apparently not obvious to many internet users) of what I'm talking about: a digg-optimized top 10 list on a site that is otherwise just a store and has no actual links to the optimized page. It's sad enough that this kind of stuff is so common, but it's even worse that so few people notice it that these people get away with it on an hourly basis.

This kind of stuff is happening everywhere these days, including forums I've gone to for years. People register and post 2 or 3 asinine posts in quick succession so they can pass as normal users and then start a thread with their spam, sometimes under the guise of needing help, sometimes without even bothering to do that. Internet users have become stupid enough, though, that they can't recognize this stuff, even though many of these people use the same names and exact same post text on multiple forums, as can be easily discovered through simple google searches. "But they wrote other posts!" is the attitude these spammers bank on, and they are winning.

It's an arms race and spammers are becoming more sophisticated while users are, on average, becoming less sophisticated.

[Moogs]

The int@rwebz is turning into a refuse pile. Actually, no. It's like every other big city in the world. There are many cool places to go and many streets with useful shops and services. But for every clean street there are dark alleys filled with refuse, excrement and sometimes criminals. Problem is there's no mayor who can "clean up" the trashy parts of town when things get out of hand. Though that's being worked out to some degree with SPAM laws, etc. Though it's tough to assign someone to punish with an iron fist, without losing the net's free-flowing nature.

Overall the signal to noise ratio will inevitably go in the toilet because the sad fact is anonymity breeds irresponsibility for many people. And a large swath of teenagers today are borderline illiterate nimrods who go all over the place posting half-witted comments and slams on every subject known to man, even though most of them can't tell time on an analog clock or explain any important aspect of government, economics, business or the arts to you. They can definitely carry on a conversation about X-games, hooking up with bimbette, and the latest from kOrn though. Hooray.

[BenP]

Digg especially has been getting to me recently. I like it because it aggregates tech news that generally won't make mainstream and the "real" news stories that you'd see on CNN or whatever. Unfortunately the majority of stories are spam, the comment system sucks (which actually is OK because the comments themselves are worse), and Safari can't seem to handle more than one tab of Digg at a time.

[Moogs]

Honestly, I can't stand sites like DIGG or YouTube because they're just filled to the brim with shit. You have to wade through it every time you want to find something worthwhile, including all the dumbass teen-tard comments for every movie ever posted. Any site like that where people just drop in and run their mouth and walk away is one I try to avoid like the plague.

Even places like dpreview, which has good reviews, but terrible, unmoderated forums full of misinformation and clueless jackholes who ruin it for everyone else trying to be of service or find information. Moderation at the local level is the key to any good site IMO. YouTube should be moderated (talking about the comments here and to a lesser degree the video quality) with an iron fist, as should any other very popular site where people can "hit and run".

I don't know if Google owns YouTube now (I think they do) but there should be resources dedicated to keeping that place clean, the same way Apple keeps their support forums relatively clean and clear of crap. And keeping the video quality up. There should be people who sweep through and look for videos that are so blurry you can't make them out, fake videos of real events, stupid 4 second "jokes" about celebrities that get posted where it's a picture that's been given the graffiti treatment by some clever 14 year old that just discovered Photoshop Elements. Call it Beavis and Butthead syndrome. Hell I'd even pay $25 a year to have access to a premium version where all the shit is weeded out, the comments are moderated, etc - so you have a much higher chance of finding good quality video and intelligent comments. Sort of like a Wikipedia for video only a little more moderated than that.

[psmith2.0]

I agree 100%. I've noticed this for a long time now. You just have to pick your places and try to ignore the rest. Lots of idiots and lowlifes out there, just like real life.

The whole spam/malware thing is bad enough. And then you've got the YouTube/MySpace thing, which, in my opinion, breeds incivility and stupidity. Sorry, I just think it does.

That Time saw fit to appoint us all "Person of the Year" for this very shit speaks volumes about their judgement, and everyone should question their standards or competence at this point, and cancel their subscription immediately.

[Banana]

Do you think it'll make a difference if we started teaching critical analysis and the related subjects to kids at much earlier age? When I was in school, I think I had English courses in middle school which were more creative-writing oriented than critical analysis, and didn't get into deep of it until I was in high school.

I'd suppose that if it was possible (I know nothing about child psychology), moving critical analysis to elementary school and teaching kids to question new information they've been given (instead of being spoon fed the right way as it is now), *and* be able to defend their position for X. Doesn't have to be compelling, but at least reasonable and rational.

If such standard was applied, would it have any effect on Internet behavior?

[psmith2.0]

No, because putting forth a coherent, well-spoken argument - supported with facts and common sense - is never going to be as popular and meaningful as saying "dude, that's fucking gay...LOL!!!".



All the right-minded school stuff in the world isn't going to matter because people - teens especially - are going to revert to their usual ways when in a big crowd. Nobody wants to be the "little professor" or highbrowed know-it-all. You're an outcast.

Easier to just go with the established lingo and attitudes. People, on balance, don't want to stand on their own or go against the grain. Multiply that times about 500 when you're talking about modern teenagers.

The Internet is a safe, anonymous place to show your ass and your complete lack of civility and sense. Some folks thrive on that and wouldn't change it for anything. Come on, where have you been?



"You mean I can cite these statistics, quote this research paper and rationally explain my viewpoint and how I came to this conclusion...or I can simply tell everyone to go suck my dick? Dude, I gotta go with option b here...".

[Mugge]

At least we old coots and Mac snobs have AN.

You guys just need to stop judging the Internet on it's lowest common denominators.

[psmith2.0]

But it's more funner.

[GrayDiggity]

We are spoiled at AN. On other message boards, I am always looking for Brad to unleash the Hand of Doom on somebody who posts something completely asinine. I am disappointed when it does not happen. Spelling mistakes like "defenately" drive me crazy. Hell, the overuse of the word "definitely", even when spelled correctly, is enough to make me quit reading some sites. Misuse of "your" and "you're" or "there" and "their" make me want to jump off a cliff. There are times when I wish there were more frequent new threads on AN, but when I read other boards and see the unintelligible garbage, I appreciate that 99% of posts here are quality.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Banana Do you think it'll make a difference if we started teaching critical analysis and the related subjects to kids at much earlier age?

T, FTFY.

[Mugge]

Actually I have an old fried from a no longer existing messageboard who was the absolute champion of just spewing out rants that could go on for page after page. I'm pretty sure he would give most of you guys a fit, but the mods at that forum rewarded him with his own sticky thread that ended up growing to some 60's pages. And that didn't make him cut down his rants in any of the other threads.

He mastered the art of being both bloody annoying an insanely funny at the same time.

[Moogs]

Regarding old coots: the question wasn't "is there still good stuff on the internet" it was "is it getting worse", which I take to mean, is it getting relatively more difficult to find good content and/or to steer clear of crappy content than it used to be. To which we're saying "yep, it is..." and mostly on account of the teen-tard contingent never knowing when to shut up or look something up instead of just posting their lollercopters and brilliant insights.

And I'll tell you something... since time immemorial it's always been "the kids haven't changed, you have" (to the old coots like us 30-somethings), but that is no longer the case. I remember exactly what I was like at that age, and many of my peers. We had our share of stupid, dork-o moments and running our mouths and being sure we had the world all figured out... every teenager is this way at some point. However the previous generation was different in that we actually had some social skills and knew some things about the world and about how this country works. We were naive but not clueless, noisy but not oblivious... the current generation of kids are so freaking stunted I can hardly believe it sometimes.

They make the adults from 10 years ago who were mocked on street smarts, look almost normal by comparison. So many of these kids have been coddled by their parents and "cheered on" when they really didn't accomplish a damn thing (all to pad their delicate child-ego), that somewhere along the line they fail to learn anything and life is just this big drag they have to endure until they get to college. Bunch of mumbling, shuffling, baggy pants wearing clueless kids. Especially in teh wealthy neighorhoods. Holy Jesus it's a sad sight.

So yah, I think all those kids ^ have a bad effect on the totality of net content, more so than say 6 or 7 years ago. I mean how many nut-crushing skateboard videos and Brittany comments do we need?

[Mugge]

Nah, not really.

No matter how annoying those kids are, they are probably very busy bringing vitality to the Internet. Testing out new stuff thinking fresh thoughts. Of course most of them will not bring anything useful to the world, but It only took two to create for example Google. The trick is just to find out who the smart ones are and learn to live with the rest.

[psmith2.0]

Moogs, is channeling me today, ladies and gentlemen. I don't even have to post. Just read what he's saying and go "oh, that's Paul's position too...".



What GrayDiggity says above is so true. I hang out/lurk at some other message boards (specifically ones dealing with movies and music/guitar, a few of each). Holy crap they're bad.

I've also caught myself thinking "If Brad ran this joint, this idiot would be TOAST!"



So many of these other forums just let their members run wild. And there are always - always - a handful of people who take advantage of that and abuse it to high heaven, making the place more unpleasant and confrontational than it should ever have to be.

Honestly, now: what kind of a loser numbnut do you have to be to engage in a 48-page running flame-fest over Batman's utility belt? But I see people do it, all the while thinking "back at 'Nova this thread would've been locked weeks ago and these two bickering, disruptive asshats would've been knocked on the head with the ol' ban stick".

At some of these places the inmates truly do run the asylum. And that's never a good thing.

[Moogs]

Maybe Brad could earn some extra cash-money by assembling the Brad-squad... smack-down moderators for hire. I'd do it; I wouldn't even require money. Well, maybe a $10 iTunes Credit for every month of internet community service provided. Otherwise, point the way. I've already read the training manual.

Treadwell's got nothing on me.

Brad-Squad: the most affordable, effective, Proper Motivation ™ money can buy!

[Banana]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 No, because putting forth a coherent, well-spoken argument - supported with facts and common sense - is never going to be as popular and meaningful as saying "dude, that's fucking gay...LOL!!!". .... "You mean I can cite these statistics, quote this research paper and rationally explain my viewpoint and how I came to this conclusion...or I can simply tell everyone to go suck my dick? Dude, I gotta go with option b here...".

I was sort of operating on the assumption that the group as whole would raise the bar, so what would be a "highbrowed little professor" to us today would be normal kid in this generation. But more importantly, I was hoping that with a bit reason and rhyme knocked into their heads, they might know better than to go "LOLLERSKATES" every five minutes or so.

Ah, but what do I know? I'm just a old-cooter going off in one of those "in my days..." rants.

Originally Posted by Brad T, FTFY.

Well, for some reason I think of kids as a child of age between 3 to 18, and I was thinking of teenagers in that context. *shrugs*

[Taskiss]

More noise than signal for quite a while, but finding a pearl in the muck is just that much more rewarding.

Thanks to those that keep this place shiny!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Banana Well, for some reason I think of kids as a child of age between 3 to 18, and I was thinking of teenagers in that context. *shrugs*

My point was that many kids, be they small children or teenagers, are never taught decent reasoning and critical thinking skills. These young adults even manage to slide through university without too much resistance. I have had the misfortune of working directly with some of these dimwits over the years and it really, really is disheartening (and frustrating).

[Bryson]

Dude, this thread is GAY!!!!LOL!!!











Sorry.







There are idiots everywhere you go. Everywhere. the Internet is merely representative of the Real World: ie: at least half the people in it are so amazingly stupid, you'd really much rather not have to associate with them. But just like there are bars and coffee shops that seem to attract people who aren't idiots, there are forums like this one that also have some standard of intelligent debate, and a low tolerance for sheer jackassery.

It always amazes me when people get all uppity about this (or similar subjects, like how TV is dumb, or Fox News is dumb etc). If you think the standard of media is too low for you, stop using it. There's plenty of good stuff without the morons - go and find it.

[709]

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Brad My point was that many kids, be they small children or teenagers, are never taught decent reasoning and critical thinking skills. These young adults even manage to slide through university without too much resistance. I have had the misfortune of working directly with some of these dimwits over the years and it really, really is disheartening (and frustrating).

Ah, gotcha.

Yes, I have had same misfortunes. I don't know whether I should be amazed that they managed to get in university, supervisory position, or whatever they may be where I meet them or be saddened because whoever put them there had to be even stupider to actually do so.

It's quite possible that I'm a bit too optimistic about better education being a cure-all, but for some reason, people who has actually has some sensibility about them, they are usually the same people who knows how to think. It may be a correlation, not causation, for all I know.

Bryson, whether Internet is representative of the real world, which is full of idiots, I don't think this a good excuse. People aren't born idiots; they're made idiots, IMO. Be it crappy education, bad parenting, or just general negligence of their mental facility, idiocy wouldn't arise in absence of such factors.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by 709 ...the fanboy forum reply graphic...

[autodata]

Originally Posted by Bryson There are idiots everywhere you go. Everywhere. the Internet is merely representative of the Real World: ie: at least half the people in it are so amazingly stupid, you'd really much rather not have to associate with them.

Perhaps, but I swear to god I never meet or interact at all with people as noticeably stupid as 95% of the people I see on the tubes. Seriously.

[sirnick4]

Originally Posted by Moogs Regarding old coots: the question wasn't "is there still good stuff on the internet" it was "is it getting worse", which I take to mean, is it getting relatively more difficult to find good content and/or to steer clear of crappy content than it used to be. To which we're saying "yep, it is..." and mostly on account of the teen-tard contingent never knowing when to shut up or look something up instead of just posting their lollercopters and brilliant insights. And I'll tell you something... since time immemorial it's always been "the kids haven't changed, you have" (to the old coots like us 30-somethings), but that is no longer the case. I remember exactly what I was like at that age, and many of my peers. We had our share of stupid, dork-o moments and running our mouths and being sure we had the world all figured out... every teenager is this way at some point. However the previous generation was different in that we actually had some social skills and knew some things about the world and about how this country works. We were naive but not clueless, noisy but not oblivious... the current generation of kids are so freaking stunted I can hardly believe it sometimes. They make the adults from 10 years ago who were mocked on street smarts, look almost normal by comparison. So many of these kids have been coddled by their parents and "cheered on" when they really didn't accomplish a damn thing (all to pad their delicate child-ego), that somewhere along the line they fail to learn anything and life is just this big drag they have to endure until they get to college. Bunch of mumbling, shuffling, baggy pants wearing clueless kids. Especially in teh wealthy neighorhoods. Holy Jesus it's a sad sight. So yah, I think all those kids ^ have a bad effect on the totality of net content, more so than say 6 or 7 years ago. I mean how many nut-crushing skateboard videos and Brittany comments do we need?

From Brad:

I have had the misfortune of working directly with some of these dimwits over the years and it really, really is disheartening (and frustrating).

To comment on the kids of today (well, really my generation: Generation Y), there is a good article from ABC news. It's a pretty interesting read.

[/slightly off-topic]

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Moogs The int@rwebz is turning into a refuse pile. Actually, no. It's like every other big city in the world. There are many cool places to go and many streets with useful shops and services. But for every clean street there are dark alleys filled with refuse, excrement and sometimes criminals. Problem is there's no mayor who can "clean up" the trashy parts of town when things get out of hand. Though that's being worked out to some degree with SPAM laws, etc. Though it's tough to assign someone to punish with an iron fist, without losing the net's free-flowing nature. Overall the signal to noise ratio will inevitably go in the toilet because the sad fact is anonymity breeds irresponsibility for many people. And a large swath of teenagers today are borderline illiterate nimrods who go all over the place posting half-witted comments and slams on every subject known to man, even though most of them can't tell time on an analog clock or explain any important aspect of government, economics, business or the arts to you. They can definitely carry on a conversation about X-games, hooking up with bimbette, and the latest from kOrn though. Hooray.

I agree with nearly everything in this post.


I was talking to a friend of mine not too long ago, and we were talking about how society and humans aren't really 'ready' for the internet yet. We haven't been, we're getting better in some respects, but in some respects we're just exposing that truth. One idea I had was... what if, since its inception, everyone on the internet had a static avatar/representation, that basically existed as a 1:1 counterpart to their real selves. If that were the case, would there be so much shit on the net? if *everyone* could and would be held accountable for stupid bullshit and assholedom?

The lame thing is that, today with all the social networking sites being as big as they are, for the first time, we do kind of have an internet identity that is more or less persistent, and even if there are some usernames here and there, it's usually not too difficult to figure out who someone is if you have seen their myspace or whatever. But, when only some people are embracing a more open and honest version of the internet, the majority of people still flourish in their anonymity, and prey on the people that dare to treat the internet any differently than for pornz.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by GrayDiggity Hell, the overuse of the word "definitely", even when spelled correctly, is enough to make me quit reading some sites.

Yikes! I know that I used the word "definitely" twice here yesterday. Guess I'll have to be more vigilant.

Originally Posted by Moogs So many of these kids have been coddled by their parents and "cheered on" when they really didn't accomplish a damn thing (all to pad their delicate child-ego), that somewhere along the line they fail to learn anything and life is just this big drag they have to endure until they get to college... [snip]Especially in teh wealthy neighorhoods.

Yeah, there are some unbelievably spoiled brats out there. My only consolation is that when they get out into the Real World, no one is going to put up with their BS for more than about ten minutes tops. I sometimes like to fantasize about that initial moment when mommy's little baby is told NO for the very first time by a no-nonsense employer. Ahhh... such a delightful and long-deserved comeuppance.

Originally Posted by Mugge Nah, not really. No matter how annoying those kids are, they are probably very busy bringing vitality to the Internet. Testing out new stuff thinking fresh thoughts. Of course most of them will not bring anything useful to the world, but It only took two to create for example Google. The trick is just to find out who the smart ones are and learn to live with the rest.

Well, actually, I do have to agree with you, Mugge. There are a LOT of great teens out there. The ones making idiot posts on messageboards, however, are the immature ones with not much 'real' self-confidence.

They are the ones who don't speak up in class for fear of seeming like fools, but who take advantage of the anonymity of the internet to finally express themselves, and feel they have a place in the world, even though it may be a small and pathetic place in our eyes.

They make no impact in the 'real' world in which they live, but they can express their opinions - in the form of dumb comments - freely and in great number on messageboards.

I think many of these twits will eventually grow up and become relatively productive members of society. But then, I am an optimist, and that makes a big difference in my hopes for the world.

Originally Posted by Moogs Maybe Brad could earn some extra cash-money by assembling the Brad-squad... smack-down moderators for hire. I'd do it; I wouldn't even require money. Well, maybe a $10 iTunes Credit for every month of internet community service provided. Otherwise, point the way. I've already read the training manual. Brad-Squad: the most affordable, effective, Proper Motivation ™ money can buy!

Sounds like a pretty damned good idea.

You know, the BBC 'comment sections' are all moderated; so the posts there are worth reading, if anyone gets desperate to read some sensible adult opinions.