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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-09-04, 14:00

The Snow Leopard pre oders came to about $35. The other thing is that as more people use the store, we start getting a higher percentage of the sale. So initially everything is 4%. As time goes on and more people use it though we can get up to 10% depending on who's selling the product.

So a $2,000 laptop purchase could easily net AN $80 to $200.

Google is your frenemy.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-09-04, 14:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
So a $2,000 laptop purchase could easily net AN $80 to $200.
Technically Amazon caps the amount they give out for computer purchases at $25. Still helps though
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-09-04, 14:32

Aw, boo. I guess I hadn't read it all that carefully. I have just been pleasantly surprised at how well it's doing overall.

I don't care what they all say about you in the mod forum tori, you're alright.


Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-09-04, 14:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
Aw, boo. I guess I hadn't read it all that carefully. I have just been pleasantly surprised at how well it's doing overall.
Yeah, it can really add up, especially if the snowball starts rolling and your percentages start increasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
I don't care what they all say about you in the mod forum tori, you're alright.
Yeah, tori is a cool dude.

I hope I'm alright too.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
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2009-09-04, 14:39

I just saw that the percentage you get resets at the beginning of each month. Guess the key is to sell a lot of cheap stuff the first 15 days, then all the big stuff at the end of the month.

(yeah, you're just find Robo)

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-09-04, 15:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
I just saw that the percentage you get resets at the beginning of each month. Guess the key is to sell a lot of cheap stuff the first 15 days, then all the big stuff at the end of the month.
It doesn't retroactively apply the percentage you're getting that month to all purchases that month? Odd.
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
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2009-09-04, 23:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post

I don't care what they all say about you in the mod forum tori, you're alright.

I've got a few decent ideas in this head of mine.
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thegelding
feeling my oats
 
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2009-09-07, 23:18

ha...we should see how much we can get from just one item...but hopefully ordered quite a few times

all star trek geeks here at AN should order the movie from amazon...

i just did (along with up), so AN will get a few bucks come nov 10ish

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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billybobsky
BANNED
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2009-09-07, 23:38

i am going to look the gift horse firmly in the mouth here....

how the hell does this work out for amazon at all? they lose a sizable amount of profit on sales they would have been making anyway.

ah well, whatever, as long as this can help pay the electric around here i guess that's all that matters, screw amazon's shareholders.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-09-07, 23:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
how the hell does this work out for amazon at all? they lose a sizable amount of profit on sales they would have been making anyway.
The idea is, from Amazon's perspective, that they'll get sales they wouldn't have made anyway.

Who knows if that's how it'll work out...but that's the general idea.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2009-09-08, 05:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
The idea is, from Amazon's perspective, that they'll get sales they wouldn't have made anyway.

Who knows if that's how it'll work out...but that's the general idea.
Not only that, but you can rest assured that they're not using up their entire profit on this. I'd imagine there are very few items where the affiliate fees are more than Amazon's cut. I'm sure they still make more off everything we buy than AN does.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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torifile
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2009-09-08, 05:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
i am going to look the gift horse firmly in the mouth here....

how the hell does this work out for amazon at all? they lose a sizable amount of profit on sales they would have been making anyway.

ah well, whatever, as long as this can help pay the electric around here i guess that's all that matters, screw amazon's shareholders.
It's like any affiliate program. I know that I've bought stuff from Amazon in the past couple of weeks that I might not have gotten from them. When stuff is the same price, why should I go with Amazon? I mean, my local Best Buy price matches Amazon (!) so I could get stuff right away for the price of tax, but I choose to use the link to order.

That said, we really should get that vB plugin so that all amazon links are made into affiliate links automatically.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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spotcatbug
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2009-09-08, 07:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
how the hell does this work out for amazon at all? they lose a sizable amount of profit on sales they would have been making anyway.
Take Snow Leopard as the example here.

Had there been no AN link, at least some of us wouldn't have bought Snow Leopard from Amazon. We all would have gotten Snow Leopard from somewhere, just perhaps not from Amazon. That's the big win for Amazon. If somebody else besides Amazon ends up selling you the thing you're looking for, Amazon gets $0. For Amazon, affiliate links are not only about getting you to buy things you normally wouldn't buy, they're also about getting you to choose Amazon to buy the things you might otherwise buy from somebody else.

Ugh.
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Iago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hmm?
 
2009-09-08, 07:36

pokes Alcimedes about the UK affiliate scheme
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2009-09-08, 07:37

If it was a case of paying say, $35 at Amazon rather than $29 somewhere else, then I can get that. But it's still $29. Amazon has to buy the $29 from Apple and sell it to us at $29, then pay Applenova (or any affiliate for that matter) $1.16 (assuming 4%), leaving Amazon with a loss of $1.16.

IOW, volumes of sales may increase but it's still a loss for Amazon.

Maybe they do magic behind the stages to make it work long-term, I dunno.


Wait, when I think about it a bit, it may not be the case of Amazon buying Snow Leopard at $29, but rather a retailer within Amazon buying Snow Leopard at $29 while paying Amazon for the privileges to advertise Snow Leopard. That would allow Amazon to share the increased profit with affiliates because they get to make more on the percentage they derive from sales.

Yep, looks like there's a fee to sell on Amazon, so it's all about increasing the sales volume and sharing profit after all.
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2009-09-08, 07:52

Banana you would be right if Amazon made no money off the software. Amazon doesn't pay $29 for a copy of Leopard that they sell for $29. At worst, they pay $25 for it. In that scenario, they still make $2.84 in profit.

I know Apple tends to push for low retailer margins on their products, so that $25 may not be far from the truth. Amazon would have to pay more than $27.84 to take a loss on Snow Leopard, though. I doubt that number is accurate.

Most products they sell are higher margin products than that. Amazon made a $207 million profit in the quarter that ended Dec. 31, 2007. That's after all their expenses, including affiliate program fees. I wasn't able to find statistics on their profits from sales made through the affiliate program, but you can bet that they wouldn't do the program if they weren't making a profit from it.

Spotcatbug is spot-on (sorry for the pun) about the reasoning. They're capturing sales that they might not have captured otherwise. Lots of us would have bought it from Apple (I actually haven't bought it at all yet) if we hadn't bought it from Amazon.

What do you think Amazon would rather have: The $2 or so they make if we buy it from them through an affiliate link or the $0 they make if we buy it from Apple?

That link you added at the end of your post isn't for the affiliate program. It's for other retailers to sell their products through Amazon. That's not related to Apple at all. For example, here is the Nikon D40 from Amazon: link and here it is from other sellers: Link. That is what that link is about.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2009-09-08, 08:09

Wyatt,

According to Wiki (and assuming we can trust the sources there), affiliate made 40% of the Amazon's sales.

As for the links, what I was saying is that I *think* Amazon doesn't actually do the buying & selling. They merely broker the transaction between the seller and the buyer (a la eBay), and the extra fees they make off the increased sales are what pays for the affiliate program.

But you're probably right- it's not always a 3rd party seller; Amazon can be seller itself, so Amazon would have had to negotiate a discount as in exchange for increased sales to the original manufacturer (e.g. Apple for the SL).
  quote
spotcatbug
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2009-09-08, 08:30

Amazon definitely doesn't buy Snow Leopard from Apple for $29 per copy. They pay wholesale prices. $29 is the (Apple) suggested retail price. In fact, my copy of Snow Leopard, bought from Amazon (through the AN link of course), only cost me $24.99 (including shipping!). I can't be certain, but I bet Amazon still made money off that sale.

Retail margins can be very, very high. Think about it. If you make something, you really need people to sell it for you. No sales equals no money for you. One of the ways of enticing somebody to sell your item instead of somebody else's item is to have a higher margin for the retailer (all other things being equal - which they never are). This naturally pushes retail margins upwards.

Ugh.

Last edited by spotcatbug : 2009-09-08 at 08:53.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2009-09-08, 08:32

Amazon actually takes a loss with some of its head content, FWIW. Blowout release specials are events where this can happen, as well as with popular content that is expected to draw in new customers. It's a not-uncommon tactic to "get people in the door" and then get them to buy other content that has a better margin.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2009-09-08, 08:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Amazon actually takes a loss with some of its head content, FWIW. Blowout release specials are events where this can happen, as well as with popular content that is expected to draw in new customers. It's a not-uncommon tactic to "get people in the door" and then get them to buy other content that has a better margin.
I don't know if this can work here? For a grocery store, they can advertise $1.99/lbs for steak that's usually $4.99 and still make money off all other items customers stock up with that discounted meat. But with affiliate link, isn't it 4% for everything they buy, so it doesn't matter whether they stock up or not?
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2009-09-08, 08:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
Retail margins can be very, very high. Think about it. If you make something, you really need people to sell it for you. No sales equals no money for you. One of the ways of enticing somebody to sell your item instead of somebody else's item is to have a higher margin for the retailer (all other things being equal - which they never are). This naturally pushes retail margins upwards.
In general, that's true, but I know Apple can be tough on retailers. When I worked at Radio Shack, my store made about $1.25 for selling an iPod. Yep. We made less profit on an iPod than McDonalds makes on a Happy Meal.

I'm sure a higher volume seller like Amazon gets a better deal, but I almost guarantee you they don't get the same margins on Apple products as they do on other products.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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Iago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hmm?
 
2009-09-08, 09:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
As for the links, what I was saying is that I *think* Amazon doesn't actually do the buying & selling. They merely broker the transaction between the seller and the buyer (a la eBay), and the extra fees they make off the increased sales are what pays for the affiliate program.
That's possible but unlikely. That process would create a degree of extra work for Apple and I'm fairly certain that in such circumstances Apple would say "Thanks but no thanks" (in so many words) to Amazon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Amazon actually takes a loss with some of its head content, FWIW. Blowout release specials are events where this can happen, as well as with popular content that is expected to draw in new customers. It's a not-uncommon tactic to "get people in the door" and then get them to buy other content that has a better margin.
Yeah. Think about Harry Potter, for example. You could pre-order it on Amazon for ~$9, months ahead of time. For an online retailer, getting people onto the site and bombarding them with personalised recommendations and "People who bought [x] also bought..." boxouts is worth the loss they make on that product. Actually, the most popular products probably make them less money, in a weird way: JK Rowling, or Apple or whoever, can hold the world (and more importantly retailers) to ransom with their latest and greatest and slice their margins razor thin. So Amazon probably doesn't lose as much on a Harry Potter book as it seems, and is able to make the money back from the users who buy other higher-margin products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
I don't know if this can work here? For a grocery store, they can advertise $1.99/lbs for steak that's usually $4.99 and still make money off all other items customers stock up with that discounted meat. But with affiliate link, isn't it 4% for everything they buy, so it doesn't matter whether they stock up or not?
Again it's about margins. The margin on Snow Leopard is definitely very thin. But "People who bought Snow Leopard also bought..."

* Windows 7 @ £125.33
* iLife '09 @ £58.43
* Office 2008 @ £68.27
* Wii Sports Resort @ £37.96
* Star Trek XI Blu-Ray Pre-order @ £17.88
* Western Digital 1TB HDD @ £68.99

The margin Amazon makes from those items will be higher and they'll make more comfortable money, irrespective of whether it's bought from an affiliate link or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
In general, that's true, but I know Apple can be tough on retailers. When I worked at Radio Shack, my store made about $1.25 for selling an iPod. Yep. We made less profit on an iPod than McDonalds makes on a Happy Meal.
Apple is extraordinarily tough on retailers. They try and dictate everything from commissions to product placement. That's their prerogative, they're the behemoth and Radio Shack is the amusingly-named fallen giant. An example is iPhone 3G in the UK. Carphone Warehouse and O2 sought the right to offer their employees a commission based on the sale of the unit at launch (as opposed to their crappy insurance, which is what staff usually get commissions on.) It's typical for that to happen with phones from Sony and particularly Nokia. Apple rejected them outright. They didn't want people who weren't buying iPhone to have an unpleasant experience with the Apple brand being pushed on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
When I worked at Radio Shack, my store made about $1.25 for selling an iPod. Yep. We made less profit on an iPod than McDonalds makes on a Happy Meal.
It's a little misleading to make this comparison. For one thing Radio Shack is selling a 3PP product. You never make much money selling someone else's stroke of genius. If McDonald's licensed Happy Meals to, say, Hardees (are they still going?), Hardees wouldn't make as much profit as McDonalds. Shit rolls downhill.

Also, the margins at Radio Shack are thinner because Radio Shack (almost certainly) tries to undercut Apple's own pricing. Curry's in the UK do it all the time: if an iPod Touch is £199 in an Apple Store or at Apple online, it'll be £192 or similar in Curry's.

The best way to incentivise the sale of iPods and Macs in a channel partner environment, as Apple officially state to their partners (at least in the UK) is to offer bundles and discounted accessories. A lot of places do this (Free crappy speakers with every iPod Nano sold!), but a lot of places are bloody-minded and use their own strategies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
I'm sure a higher volume seller like Amazon gets a better deal, but I almost guarantee you they don't get the same margins on Apple products as they do on other products.
Agreed. They definitely don't.

I'm Joseph Fritzl, and no windows was my idea.
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billybobsky
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-09-08, 10:20

While 40% of Amazon's sales are from affiliate programs, I am not convinced that they would lose more than 4% of those sales if they hadn't one (which is the question their bean counters are asking themselves).

Of course, this is due to change since manufacturers are getting smarter about becoming direct sellers of their products since the web is a virtually free store front -- but for a long time Amazon was (and still is) the only distributer of a lot of goods. Take, for instance, the rear derailleur hanger I recently purchased (before AN's affiliate program, no worries eric), the only other option for purchasing was through a dubious homespun website. Even large scale bike parts websites didn't have the item -- Amazon is just that much bigger...
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2009-09-08, 20:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
That rain barrel counted towards AN to the tune of $13. Nicely done.
Waitaminit....

can you actually see what we're buying?







THEY WERE FOR A FRIEND!!!
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2009-09-08, 20:55

Oh, psh, 709.

It's not as if alci is going to tell the entire world about the lovely lavender gimp mask you bought.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2009-09-08, 20:58

It wasn't lavender, it was violet....and now I know he's telling everybody!

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Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-09-08, 21:17

You can see what individuals are buying? So that means one has to be logged in to AN before it counts?

Oops. I've purchased many woodworking / construction tools after clicking the link in the first post. Does that mean they don't count?
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2009-09-08, 21:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
You can see what individuals are buying? So that means one has to be logged in to AN before it counts?
Your AppleNova account has no bearing on the data that Amazon collects. He can see what's been purchased, but not necessarily by whom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
Oops. I've purchased many woodworking / construction tools after clicking the link in the first post. Does that mean they don't count?
The trick is to be sure you click the affiliate link before check out. The affiliate flag sets a cookie that probably expires if you don't click the link again. (This is speculation; I haven't actually dug into this.)

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2009-09-08, 21:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
You can see what individuals are buying? So that means one has to be logged in to AN before it counts?
Naah... the buyer of the rain barrel already identified himself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
cool

i can't tell if it works on my purchases...it doesn't give me any data...but i will keep using the link

spent 100 the other day, ordering a rain barrel for 200 today...

g
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2009-09-08, 21:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
He can see what's been purchased, but not necessarily by whom.
Ah. Well, that's OK I guess.

The Slinkachu books were me. I recommend everyone buy a copy. Simply fantastic.
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