[Windswept]

Just read about the public smoking ban going into effect in England, and wondered where 'else' in the world such bans have already been put in place.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- England snuffed out smoking in bars, workplaces and public buildings on Sunday in what campaigners said was the biggest boost to public health since the creation of the National Health Service in 1948. Smokers violating restrictions in England and businesses failing to display "no smoking" signs face heavy fines. The legislation is designed to protect people from the effects of second-hand smoke at work, which doctors estimate kills more than 600 people a year. The government hopes it will help smokers quit and discourage children from lighting up. England follows Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and means smoking in enclosed public places such as pubs is now banned throughout the United Kingdom. The move follows similar bans in Ireland and other European countries. Some parts of Canada and a number of U.S. states have had strict controls on smoking for years. Individuals lighting up against the law in England face fines of up to 200 pounds ($400) while businesses can be charged up to 1,000 pounds for failing to display "no smoking" signs. "Smoking is the single most preventable cause of death," said Deborah Arnott, at charity Action on Smoking and Health. "Workers have a right to a safe environment and the harm done by tobacco smoke is now known to be significantly dangerous." A quarter of adults smoke, with the level higher among those doing manual and routine jobs. But artist David Hockney, who has been waging campaign against the ban, calls it a "grotesque piece of social engineering" imposed by a "political and media elite." Many pubs have installed rain awnings and patio heaters to accommodate smokers outside.

Was the public smoking ban in your city/state/country tough to enforce, or did the restaurants, offices and bars/pubs accept it grudgingly?

Are you glad that there is no longer smoking in public places?

Any members here miserable that you can no longer smoke in your favorite pub? Or are you okay with sitting outside to do so?

Was the smoking ban in England put to a public vote, or did legislators just make the decision on their own?



(Poor Dorian is going to be cranky for a while. )

Poll to follow.

[PKIDelirium]

The whole state is. It kicks ass.

[psmith2.0]

I'm right on the state line (Tennesse and Georgia). Smoking is pretty much banned in most indoor, enclosed places in both states, although Tennesse still allows it in restaurants and bars (and that's fine...it's their place, and I don't have to go there if I don't want).

But Georgia has no smoking anywhere, so when you go to a Chili's or Applebee's in Georgia, you don't have to specify "smoking or non-smoking seating" like you do at the ones in Tennessee. I'm constantly forgetting that, and will walk into some place and say "non smoking" and hear "it's all non-smoking, sir".



And a little tavern/pub I've recently started going to, called Tremont Tavern, they don't allow smoking in it. So it's a great place for a non-smoker like me (who likes beer, large flat TVs showing baseball games and live acoustic music) to hang out. They have open-mic nights there on Tuesdays starting at 9:00 and I usually go down and play, or sit in with someone, and then stick around and watch others and have a beer or two.

Point is, I can be there for several hours, leave and not smell like I've been in some smoky, nasty bar.

I love it. All the good things about a little neighborhood bar/pub, but minus the big drawback (for me): cigarette smoke.

[Bryson]

I'm very, very excited about the smoking ban. All the people from work are going to the pub tomorrow because we can, without getting all smoky! It's going to be great.

The legislators did it "on their own" - but we do get to vote for these people, so they aren't entirely loose cannons! I'm pretty sure a referendum would have voted yes anyway, but referendums are pretty major things to organize over something so petty.

I'm all for it.

[Banana]

My state has pretty much banned smoking from everywhere but outside and your own home. I recall reading a local article interviewing various business owners about the effect of ban after it went effective. Most owners indicated that either their business remained steady (e.g. their smoking customers now just step out to get a smoke but still come anyway) or improved now that the business isn't a smoky haze.

There was one vocal dissenter, though. The owner allowed smoking in his restaurant, despite the threats from county health department. He insisted that the ban is unfair, that his staff (of most whom are smokers) doesn't mind working there, everyone goes there to have a beer and a smoke at same time. Ultimately he lost, but not because of the ban, but because the media caught IRS's eye and the investigation showed that he owed a ridiculous amount of back taxes that he never paid in years he ran the business. The business just went poof!

Moral of the story: Don't conscientiously object to something when your slate isn't exactly clean!

[thegeriatric]

Smoking has been banned here, for as far back as I can remember.
But I have it on good authority that they tried to ban it down below but failed. I suppose with all those fires and the heat, smoking doesn't matter.

[Mac+]

In China? Is smoking banned?

Um, no. I had a friend come visit in 2005 who had decided to quit before he left Australia, but after a day or two in Nanjing he was amazed at the variety and proliferation of streets stalls selling them, not to mention the low, low price. It didn't help his efforts, so decided to succumb with the immortal Homer-esque line of logic: "At these prices, I can't afford not to smoke."

That said, I believe that Melbourne has banned smoking in pubs now too. That is cool.

[Wyatt]

Smoking is sort-of banned here. "Private clubs" and some other businesses (including most bars) are exempt. One popular restaurant in town became a private club with an "optional" membership fee so that people could continue to smoke.

[scratt]

Technically it was banned inside enclosed public places here in Thailand earlier this year. In the really posh malls and things where the pretty people go the law is enforced, but pretty much everyone just ignores it elsewhere. Fantastic.

[Dorian Gray]

Bloody fascists.

[Puff.]

[Banana]

A tangential question:

Would anyone have been totally okay if the venue had smoking section that is totally walled off, and has its own ventilation system with airlock-esque entrance?

I know that it wouldn't fly even in my state, as the ban claims to be for sake for those poor waitresses and other lowly paid service people who desperately need a job and do not have the luxury to just go somewhere but shouldn't be subject to higher risk of lung cancer and other effects of secondhand smoke.

[Naderfan]

Smoking banned here in Ohio and I love it.

[Robo]

Smoking was just recently banned in many enclosed spaces here in Vegas and there was a huge hubbub about it. (From what I understand, many bartenders are ignoring the measure anyway.) I think it was the most discussed measure on the ballot, even though it really wasn't that important. (Funny how that is, sometimes.)

[Moogs]

Banned in selected communities in and around Chicago. State-wide coming in 2008. Can't get done soon enough IMO.

[psmith2.0]

I'm torn on this.

On one hand (as a non-smoker), I love being able to go out for a night and not smell like the ass-end of a camel (or Camel).

But that whole "banned by the 'gub'ment'" thing makes me go a bit too. As it should anyone.

When has that ever gone well? And who enjoys having people you don't know tell you "no"?

Speaking honestly, that's #4 on my "List of Things that Really Piss Me Off - Volume 1".



Personally I love it; philosophically I have a bit of a problem.

Cigarettes today. Dr. Pepper and sugary, colorful cereal in 10 years? They're kinda already coming after our Big Macs and Whoppers (that's next; you mark this down so you can look back in 2-3 years and go "holy crap, 'scates wasn't playing").

Don't laugh...that's exactly how shit like this starts..."in the best interest of the community" or whatever. You know about that whole "good intentions" and the "highway construction on the Hell Turnpike" thing, right?

[jdcfsu]

Our state law, Florida, is that smoking is banned in all public places including restaurants, etc UNLESS the building is stand-alone and makes more then a majority (can't remember the exact percentage) of sales off alcohol. While this works for stand-alone dive bars, most bars/clubs in this area are part of a larger building, or sell food as well, and thus prohibit smoking.

Personally I love the ban. It went into place a few years ago while I was in college and i has made eating out a much more pleasant experience.

[sirnick4]

Not allowed in Austin.

[psmith2.0]

Not tobacco, but I know you college hippies are blazing weed like it's Christmas at Dennis Hopper's house down there. I know people from Austin...they stay high as a bat more than anyone I know.

[sirnick4]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Not tobacco, but I know you college hippies are toking weed like it's Christmas at Dennis Hopper's house down there. I know people from Austin...they stay high as a bat more than anyone I know.

Very true. I know tons of people who do that..


I can honestly say though that I do not partake in the fun.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 But that whole "banned by the 'gub'ment'" thing makes me go a bit too. As it should anyone. ...philosophically I have a bit of a problem.

I support a government-initiated ban on smoking just as I would support a government-initiated ban on people stabbing me in the chest and face with blunt objects. When people are so selfish and blind to see or care that their actions are having direct and immediate negative results on other people around them, someone has to step in to tell them to GTFO. Businesses alone don't have the foresight or motivation to enact a ban since there's little or no precedent that turning away these patrons will improve business.

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Cigarettes today. Dr. Pepper and sugary, colorful cereal in 10 years?

The big difference, though, is that when you drink Dr. Pepper and eat sugary cereal, you're not hurting me, only yourself.

[Banana]

Brad, would you say this could be slippery slope when the pencil pushers and policy wankers declare that obesity is a big drain on our health care and in order to save it, we must take steps, including total banniation of every sugary foods and drinks under the sun?

[World Leader Pretend]

Smoking is gross. Eghghgh!

Banned in most places here (civilized Kansas), and I really don't see that many smokers in public (although I'm sure the college kids light up all over).

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Banana Brad, would you say this could be slippery slope when the pencil pushers and policy wankers declare that obesity is a big drain on our health care and in order to save it, we must take steps, including total banniation of every sugary foods and drinks under the sun?

Not really. I wouldn't think smoking is being banned for the sake of health care costs as much as it is being banned because it's a public nuisance, but I haven't followed any of the legislation closely (note the North Carolina is still undecided) and I could be wrong.

As for fatty and sugary foods personally, I couldn't care less what individuals do with them since they only harm the consumer. I generally don't support regulating what people freely do to themselves. If they want to smoke cigarettes, smoke marijuana, snort crack, drink alcohol, watch a porno, eat greasy and fatty foot, or drink caffeinated sugar water in their own home or in a way that doesn't hurt others, I say let them, but don't make me foot the bill when they have a stroke or heart attack because of their own deliberate choices.

[Ebby]

Smoking is nixed in California too. And in open spaces like parks, beaches, bars, many colleges... Actually, it is easier to say smoking is allowed in homes and cars and even then conditionally with respect to children.

[turbulentfurball]

Yup. Banned here. First country in the UK to do so.

[joveblue]

I'm not sure if it's *all* enclosed public spaces here, but it's certainly most. In my state, we also had a ban on smoking in licensed venues come into effect on July 1. I'm ecstatic. I haven't been out since Friday, but I'm going out this Thursday and can't wait to experience going out and being able to breathe clean air, not damaging my lungs with other people's smoking, and coming home and not having everything reek of smoke.

EDIT: Actually come to think of it, I think previously smoking was banned in all enclosed workplaces except licensed venues, so it effectively is all enclosed public spaces now.

Oh, an +1 for what Brad said.

[Unch]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Personally I love it; philosophically I have a bit of a problem. Cigarettes today. Dr. Pepper and sugary, colorful cereal in 10 years? They're kinda already coming after our Big Macs and Whoppers (that's next; you mark this down so you can look back in 2-3 years and go "holy crap, 'scates wasn't playing"). Don't laugh...that's exactly how shit like this starts..."in the best interest of the community" or whatever. You know about that whole "good intentions" and the "highway construction on the Hell Turnpike" thing, right?

Originally Posted by Banana Brad, would you say this could be slippery slope when the pencil pushers and policy wankers declare that obesity is a big drain on our health care and in order to save it, we must take steps, including total banniation of every sugary foods and drinks under the sun?

You guys are talking as if it is a complete ban. People are still free to smoke if they want to, they just can't do it where it affects other people. For it to be the same situation with food it would have to be a ban on eating sugary/fatty foods in public only, which is something that couldn't be justified (or would make much sense).

There were already loads of places that smoking was banned from, such as petrol stations, restaurant kitchens, trains and underground stations. No-one ever complained about that.

This isn't some form of 21st century prohibition.

[Banana]

Well, like pscates, I'm very distrustful of politicians, and any inch given, they'll take a continent. While both you and I know that a ban on sugary food/drink is in no way analogous to ban on public smoking, this won't stop politicians from appealing to their voters that since smoking was banned in name of public safety, it's no big deal to do the same for unhealthy food (and the important point here is that they'll say it's all about the drain on healthcare which is unfair to everyone else just like the analogy of public smoking to peeing in a swimming pool or some other kind of rhetoric to make the food ban look analogous to smoking ban). To sweeten the deal, they could throw in some demands on McDonald's et al. to make reparations for making people fat. In this culture of "Not my fault!", people would probably go head over heels for this proposal.

But that's just my apocalyptic doom-naying pessimistic side talking.

[Mugge]

In Denmark, smoking is banned in public buildings. Restaurants and bars can choose their own smoking policy, but they need to display a sign telling customers what to expect. The choices are; smoking allowed, smoking banned and separated smoking area.

Come August I think they are going to revoke the smoking allowed option. Leaving only separated smoking areas for the smoking customers.

I don't like smoke, so I'm very much in favour of this.

[GrayDiggity]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm right on the state line (Tennesse and Georgia). Smoking is pretty much banned in most indoor, enclosed places in both states, although Tennesse still allows it in restaurants and bars (and that's fine...it's their place, and I don't have to go there if I don't want). But Georgia has no smoking anywhere, so when you go to a Chili's or Applebee's in Georgia, you don't have to specify "smoking or non-smoking seating" like you do at the ones in Tennessee. I'm constantly forgetting that, and will walk into some place and say "non smoking" and hear "it's all non-smoking, sir".

Well, I do not know how to vote in this poll. Yesterday was the day that smoking became banned in restaurants and bars in Tennessee, at least on the books. Apparently they are not going to enforce it until October 1. The issue came about and was passed pretty quickly, so they must be giving restaurants more time to prepare. You know, those "no smoking, it's the law" signs take several months to have printed (note the sarcasm). The one catch is that if an establishment claims entry to be for age 21 and over only, they can allow smoking.