[cruxakira]

Powerbook G5 will be a dream that won't come true soon. However, I do feel confident about the revision of PowerBook G4 and iBook G4 in the short distance future :smokey:

Most people know that the G5 processor is HOOOOOOOOOT as hell
I think the cutting edge tech iMac G5 is great cooling systerm....but I believe no one want the processor to be attach in the back of the LCD....

well....be patient everyone

[Brad]

And... your point?

Everyone already knows that the G5 is hot. Most people realize that the PowerBook was recently updated and won't be updated again soon.

You realize the "cutting edge tech cooling system" in the iMac G5 is just traditional convection and conduction handled by a heat sink and a fan, right?

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Even with all the cool engineering in the iMac, the fans in mine (20") rev up waaay too often for me to accept the 'whisper quiet' hype. More like 'whisper quiet if you set the processor to reduced, don't surf pages with animated .gifs, flash, or heavy javascript, don't tax the processor at 100% for more than 30 seconds at a time and keep ambient room temperature in the 50s'.

Still it is an awesome machine.

I still do all my dev stuff on my PowerBook though. <-- [to inject some PBG4 stuff in my post ]

[thegelding]

and the iMac could be even cooler if apple took the power source out of the chin area and gave the iMac a brick instead

still think the pb could use a g5 if it was either underclocked or very soon with the next revision of the g5 chip

g

[bassplayinMacFiend]

With 1.67GHz G4 chips in PBs now, I don't think Apple would sell a PB that has a 1.6 or lower G5 in it.

[defaultmike]

I think the question here is: "would apple be willing to take a step back, clock speedwise in order to take a step forward in the processor generation?"

I'd think not. Although I have heard from a friend that he's seen the pictures of the new powerbook G5 (he says it uses some of that weird chameleon color thing) he actually says he still has these pictures, but he never send me them, which is starting to make me think that he's full of crap, but if I ever get those pics, I'll post them here

[Mac+]

I agree with bpMF. Going by memory, the G3 to G4 PB transition was at the same clockspeed points: 400MHz and 500MHz, so Apple probably won't step back.

However, they may leap across to the G5 chips at the same clock cycle of the current G4 PBs (1.67GHz) if these are in fact to be the last of the G4s.

[MonkeySpank]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend I still do all my dev stuff on my PowerBook though. <-- [to inject some PBG4 stuff in my post ]

Why's that then? I'd have thought the 20" G5 would be nicer to develop on...

[hobbit.2]

We're all focussing on the CPU and with claims that some low-power chips sampled as of October, we're puzzled why there is no G5 PowerBook yet.

But maybe it's not the CPU that's holding things up?

- How about the HD?
All G5s have SATA drives, so I would assume that the G5 PowerBook will also go with SATA, especially as the slow HDs are a bottleneck in current PowerBooks.
Now according to this article at Engadget Fujitsu is the first company to actually ship 2.5" SATA drives, and they ship only as of this month. If true, perhaps Apple had to wait until now for the SATA drives?
After all not much use in increasing the bus speed if the HD can't use it...

- How about an all-new 'Pro' lineup?
With the dual-core CPUs absent from the PowerMac upgrade some seem to think this paves the way for an upmarket 'XStation' machine to be introduced at WWDC. They will be bigger, more expensive, but lots faster due to dual dual-core CPUs.
What if Apple is waiting for that opportunity to also introduce a 'Pro' portable machine, an 'XBook' of some sort.
Alike its desktop counterpart it will be heavier than current PowerBooks, it will be thicker, it will be more expensive, but it will have one dual-core G5 CPU and an HD screen (1920x1080 or 1920x1200 resolution). A portable desktop machine so to speak.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend I still do all my dev stuff on my PowerBook though. <-- [to inject some PBG4 stuff in my post ]

Interesting that..

I am using my Dual G5 (With Tiger running on it) while my 17" G4 (Original) is running through TechTool Pro remedial lessons as my Tiger install disk told me that it could not install 'because of a problem'!!

Remedial classes have been going on for about 12 hours now!! I am beginning to wonder if I should have just grabbed the stuff I want to keep and re-installed the whole damn thing...

My point is that it feels wonderful to play with widgets but I do miss worklng on my Powerbook... I don't think I'll ever use this big dualie for anything other than looking at and crushing video files onto things very quickly... Seems a waste, but powerbooks are just so natural to work on for me too...

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by MonkeySpank Why's that then? I'd have thought the 20" G5 would be nicer to develop on...

I can't sit the G5 on my lap while I sit in my comfy chair! At some point I'll probably set up the G5 as a compilation node, if my code ever takes more than 30 seconds to compile on the PowerBook.

[cruxakira]

Let's not concern about the G5 cooling and 20' HD and etc....back to one simple problem! all LapTop run by bettery. Right now a iBookG4 bettery has 6hrs, a 12'PB G4 has only 5hr,15' and 17' are even less than 3.5 hr. To run a PB G5, probably, requires a new kinda bettery, or... a bigger one....much bigger one . It's possible Apple CAN make a PB G5 now, it just WON'T be as attractive as what's in the market.

[atomicbartbeans]

Let's ditch the battery and use the wonders of Kinetic power generation to run the PB G5! Each key (and the trackpad button) has a little electromagnet that ekes out power whenever a key or mouse button is pressed. The result is an adapterless computer that will run until your fingers get tired. Not recommended for DVD viewing.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Let's ditch the battery and use the wonders of Kinetic power generation to run the PB G5! Each key (and the trackpad button) has a little electromagnet that ekes out power whenever a key or mouse button is pressed. The result is an adapterless computer that will run until your fingers get tired. Not recommended for DVD viewing.

Unless you're watching porno.

[atomicbartbeans]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend Unless you're watching porno.

For that purpose, it would come with a special motion-driven charging attachment... we won't state the obvious.

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by cruxakira Powerbook G5 will be a dream that won't come true soon. However, I do feel confident about the revision of PowerBook G4 and iBook G4 in the short distance future :smokey: Most people know that the G5 processor is HOOOOOOOOOT as hell I think the cutting edge tech iMac G5 is great cooling systerm....but I believe no one want the processor to be attach in the back of the LCD.... well....be patient everyone

sounds like someone who just bought a Powerbook G4 and wants to believe a G5 isn't coming any time soon

[psmith2.0]

You know, the more I think about it I sometimes wonder if there will EVER be a PowerBook G5? I'm not bitching, mind you...I'm just sayin'.

Everyone just assumed "ooh, new G5 towers...gotta be G5 laptop soon!". It's been almost two years, guys. Was the G5 ever intended for this type of use?

I'm truly not interested in anything thick, heavy, 22-minute battery life or scrotum-scorching hot. If other things handle the job better and still result in respectable performance, I don't care if there's ever a G5-based laptop from Apple...especially if it has to look like one of those hideously thick and clunky PC laptops for the privilege.



Don't a lot of people look to that Freescale stuff now? What if a beefier G4 (faster bus, more cache, dual core, etc.?), combined with 7200rpm hard drives, recent-vintage, cutting edge 128MB (or more?) graphics and other "several little things, under the hood, all adding up to really huge leaps" was the model for the next-generation PowerBook? Maybe a materials/case redesign and update, for good measure?

You all would be happy with that, right? Address any/all shortcomings (perceived or real) of the G4 and the current PowerBooks? Wouldn't that be a more realistic, feasible proposition? I don't know...maybe these talked-about/rumored newer G5 variations (cooler, faster, etc.) are the answer, and they're just not there yet (obviously). But do you think Apple has a "Plan B" in place, in case the IBM G5 thing never pans out? Surely, this time next year, we won't still be sitting at 1.67GHz G4 PowerBooks with 167MHz busses?

Apple kinda shot its wad on this last rev, with Bluetooth 2.0, scroll trackpad, 5400rpm across the board, 512MB stock, SMS drives, etc. In other words, they've just about tacked on every "this will hold 'em for a while" feature they can to milk the last bit out of these things until "the next big thing", right? The next PowerBook update almost HAS to be something "big, new and significant", I'd think.



I'm not a tech/chip guy, so don't step on my nuts TOO hard for the above...just thinking out loud about some things.

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Don't a lot of people look to that Freescale stuff now? What if a beefier G4 (faster bus, more cache, etc.), combined with 7200rpm hard drives, recent-vintage, cutting edge 128MB (or more?) graphics and other "several little things, under the hood, all adding up to really huge leaps" was the model for the next-generation PowerBook?

well, that certainly sounds almost like a G5....and if that's the case, why would freescale be able to produce something like that that was so much cooler running and used less power?

IBM is where Apple put their money, I'm guessing it'll be up to them to get a next generation chip in the Powerbook. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet but for the most part, save a minor revision, we are still using the same G5 design as we were on day 1. I have to believe the next generation G5 (g6?) will have a low-power version.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, I guess so. I figure SOMETHING has to give, one way or the other, within the next 8-10 months. In its current form/specs, I don't know where else the PowerBook can go.

Hell, Apple might squeeze another bit out and offer *gasp* 1.7GHz G4 PowerBooks in the fall (and in three color choices ), but people aren't gonna go for it...



I'm sure we're on the cusp of something cool and substantial...we just don't know it yet.

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Yeah, I guess so. I figure SOMETHING has to give, one way or the other, within the next 8-10 months. In its current form/specs, I don't know where else the PowerBook can go. Hell, Apple might squeeze another bit out and offer *gasp* 1.7GHz G4 PowerBooks in the fall (and in three color choices ), but people aren't gonna go for it... I'm sure we're on the cusp of something cool and substantial...we just don't know it yet.

I'd like my next purchase to be a Powerbook. But, a part of me cant stand paying equal or so much more for a product that is so much slower. Yes, a powerbook has many advantages, and its portable...but I think most of you know what I mean, when I can get an iMac with a G5 that kicks the top of the line's powerbook for several hundred dollars less, it's very hard to feel comfortable buying the PowerBook.

Unfortunately, unless something happens with IBM news in the summer months I have a feeling it wont be till 2006 till we see any chance of a G5 powerbook. It's amazing how many people ask me when a G5 powerbook will come out. A lot of us underestimate word of mouth and the public knowledge, i have friends who are completely computer illiterate yet ask me about the G5 being put in a powerbook and say they are holding off till that happens.

[julesstoop]

I sincerely believe the problem is not putting a G5 running at say 1.8 GHz in a powerbook. The problem is running this thing on a 900 MHz FSB, and putting it in a Powerbook.

The high speed FSB and memory add at least as much to the thermal problems as the G5 itsself. From the iMac development Apple has learnt that going below more or less 1/3 for the FSB would deliver a slower G5 at the same clockspeed as a G4 with 1MB of L2 on a 167 MHz FSB. (Or whatever. But they know where the sweet spot is.)

If I'm right: a G4 with a reasonable clockspeed (1,8 - 2,0 GHz), a more generous amount of L2 cache and a slightly revised FSB (say 333 MHz max.) seems more likely than a G5 with similar specs. Essentialy the G4 is and could remain to be sort of Apple's Pentium M.

[Mac+]

I remember holding off until the G4 made it into the PB - and, even so, I still opted for Rev B (about the same time as you 'nut). I can remember how I felt when Pismo was announced ... damn no G4 yet, we'll be waiting for ages!

People are aware of the G5 - but I don't think they understand the package that goes to make up the computer ... FSB, RAM, HD speed, industrial design to cope with the thermal challenge of the G5, etc - these things (amongst others) all count too - but the public just want the G5 chip to go. NOW! That's marketing for you. :shrugs:

'nut - I understand your gripe about value and price points. I'm tempted by the upcoming iMac Rev B as most of my work here in China is tethered to a desk, so I can forsake portability for a few years. Besides, I'd still have this - it's not as though I'd get that much for a TiPB550 days anyway.

[Mac+]

jules (hope you don't mind me calling you jules) - I see your logic wrt the FSB and clock speeds. But, you may be forgetting to consider that the BIG advantage for intensive Power Users is being able to address up to 8GB of RAM. Now, I don't expect Apple to release a PB with that amount of memory to address, but by sticking with the G4, it cripples the newly coded apps' ability to address larger amounts of RAM, as they can in a G5 equipped machine.

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by Mac+ 'nut - I understand your gripe about value and price points. I'm tempted by the upcoming iMac Rev B as most of my work here in China is tethered to a desk, so I can forsake portability for a few years. Besides, I'd still have this - it's not as though I'd get that much for a TiPB550 days anyway.

I'm thinking the same thing. Rev B iMac if the specs prove to be true and the pricepoints are similar or even lower sounds very attractive to me. It's time for me to update to something and my current thinking is that since 90% of my work is done at my desk in my apartment the iMac will serve nicely and the Powerbook I currently have will be able to fullfill my portable needs nicely (which are basically just to type, websurf and present). But I had always been looking to get another Powerbook.

So write now I'm face with 3 options
1. Wait for G5 Powerbook
2. Wait for rev. B iMac G5 and get that to supplement my current Powerbook
3. Wait for rev B Mac Mini and if it has better performance get that with a 20 inch Cinema Display and sell and replace the mini every 10-14 months.

[julesstoop]

No problem + in calling me Jules, I mean.

I see your point. But then: how difficult can it be to add some level of 64 bit support to a revamped G4 (if Intel can pull it of with the P4 core, it most surely should be possible with a PowerPC core)

[Mac+]

Ah - I didn't consider option 3. That would give you (both of us?) a nice Cinema Display to use with the PB as well ... only thing is our Ti's are not DVI equipped. Heck, for web surfing, writing and Mail an iBook would serve our needs - but again, it's not a useful complement to a DVI display.

The mini option sounds good - but then again, it is baby steps up from the PB ... you'll still have a G4 processor and the HD and graphics capabilites are probably not too flash. Bear in mind, if you have an external HD, then maybe you just need a box to run apps. Maybe it could be a good option.

[EDIT] Oh, you said wait for rev B - yeah that's a good option, but rev B mini is further away than rev B iMac. More waiting.

I'm still grappling with the perceived need for a G5. Why get it in an iMac (or in a PB for that matter)? Why not go dual processor? That's one of the best examples of OS X's advanced features. But then, I'm like ... well would I *really* harness all that power? A G5 PM (as Brad pointed out in another thread) is also an investment over time. It is cheaper to throw in a new HD or upgrade the graphics card on these things than it would be to buy a new set up every few years.

But heck, who am I kidding ... I can't see myself requiring PCI-X expansion slots or anything like that, so buying a PM under the pretense of upgrading it over the years is a moot point with me.

I don't know - I think I'm facing the same dilemma as you ... well, on the future computer upgrapde path that is.

1) hold out for G5 PB
2) buy rev B G5 iMac
3) go the rev B mini option with a new 20" ACD. Only wish the 20" was HD.

(I'm almost 99% certain in all cases I'll hold onto the Ti550.)

[oldmacfan]

Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut So write now I'm face with 3 options 1. Wait for G5 Powerbook 2. Wait for rev. B iMac G5 and get that to supplement my current Powerbook 3. Wait for rev B Mac Mini and if it has better performance get that with a 20 inch Cinema Display and sell and replace the mini every 10-14 months.

1. Do you want to wait that long. It may never come or when it does, it might be so compromised that you don't want one.

2. This might be the only logical decision you listed. It could happen tomorrow.

3. The Mini, well, this is the total acceptance of inferior computing. The display you can't go wrong with. It is very nice. You will be using it for a long time with many different machines, and the day you have to part it's company will be such sweet sorrow. I count the days until I have two of them for myself.

4. I know, you didn't have a #4. I would get a 20" for the present PowerBook and run it closed lid till you make up your mind to get a Dual G5.

[The Return of the 'nut]

Originally Posted by oldmacfan 1. Do you want to wait that long. It may never come or when it does, it might be so compromised that you don't want one. 2. This might be the only logical decision you listed. It could happen tomorrow. 3. The Mini, well, this is the total acceptance of inferior computing. The display you can't go wrong with. It is very nice. You will be using it for a long time with many different machines, and the day you have to part it's company will be such sweet sorrow. I count the days until I have two of them for myself. 4. I know, you didn't have a #4. I would get a 20" for the present PowerBook and run it closed lid till you make up your mind to get a Dual G5.

1. not really, which is why there are now 2 other options when originally there wouldn't have been
2. most likely. i just dont like the idea of the attached display. if im paying for a 20 inch LCD i would like to be able to use it with something else in the future
3. the mini runs iLife, burns DVDs, edits movies, plays games acceptably. basically it runs all the software of today well with a few exceptions. Sure, tomorrow's games and software may slow it down but at a pricepoint of 599 with DVD-R I could sell the mini for 350 or so down the rode and buy the new mini that runs the software at that point in the future well. seems like an attractive option to me but it's hard for me to spring for the mini now due to its shortcomings (no GPU core image support, slow and small laptop hard drive, overpriced upgrade to DVD-R, and poor graphics card in general for driving a 20 inch LCD)

[psmith2.0]

Yep. I think so many are waiting to see what happens in the Rev. B mini. If those 3-4 areas get addressed, that thing will get snapped up in unheard-of, ridiculous numbers!

For so many, it's the perfect Mac. It's what folks have wanted for years: a headless iMac (rather, eMac at this point). They just, understandably, want a tad more "oomph", particularly in the area of graphics and hard drive.

If Apple delivered that in a Rev. B, so many people would be snapping them up and pairing them with the $799 20" Cinema!

[Mac+]

Originally Posted by oldmacfan 1. Do you want to wait that long. It may never come or when it does, it might be so compromised that you don't want one. 2. This might be the only logical decision you listed. It could happen tomorrow. 3. The Mini, well, this is the total acceptance of inferior computing. The display you can't go wrong with. It is very nice. You will be using it for a long time with many different machines, and the day you have to part it's company will be such sweet sorrow. I count the days until I have two of them for myself. 4. I know, you didn't have a #4. I would get a 20" for the present PowerBook and run it closed lid till you make up your mind to get a Dual G5.

just chiming in b/c I'm in a similar position - I pretty much agree with 'nut

option 1 - I can wait ... don't think I'd jump on Rev A for that matter though
option 2 - this is the most tempting ... could always retire it as a family computer down the track
option 3 - acknowledged ... wait to see what the update brings.
option 4 - not bad! I sometimes lean that way ... will the 20" ever be HD like the others? (topic for another thread perhaps?)