Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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So I don't need to see those update icons daily in my dock. That's just annoying. |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Been holding off on a notebook since the late summer since I gave my previous 2019 MBP to my wife to use for work. That was a 4 port model, but I think I should be more than fine with the new M1 MBP. I'm only using it for office work and such. Nothing too crazy. I've still got a 2019 iMac on my desk that I can let plug away at things if I need anything done that requires some longer term power. Definitely looking forward to getting this as the reviews make them seem super impressive, but my delivery date is still 3 weeks out at this point. No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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More reports, more good news, more "what the hell has been hanging the PC industry up all these years?" light getting shined on Apple's engineering efforts.
The M1 is all I was hoping for, and a whole lot more. Goodbye Intel, hello M1! Quote:
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- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) Last edited by kscherer : 2020-11-30 at 19:51. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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How is it possible? And what's the catch? Because there's one, somewhere.
Or is this just completely unexpected - more than anyone thought it would be - and just accepted for what it appears to be? I realize there are drawbacks for those using specific titles or having to run Windows on your Mac, but for those of us who don't fit into some of these specific scenarios, I'm not seeing the other shoe drop. |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I just picked up mine today.
The simplest thing I can say is that I can't tell the difference between my previous MBPs for the most part. The keyboard is nicer and the computer works like it should. I don't do much concerning pegging the performance, so we'll see how the net few days go, but overall, after about 10 hours, this thing is just as nice or nicer as any other MBP I've had. No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now. |
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Meanwhile, someone at Intel saw how well their Core lineup was doing and got complacent. Core’s best days are yet to come. Fast forward to 2017-ish: Apple’s bet starts to pay off in ways externally noticeable. Intel, meanwhile, made some strategic and engineering errors that lose them multiple years. AMD launches Zen and gets ahead in some areas. 2020: Intel is slowly recovering from their mistakes, but has now lost about half a decade. Apple is way ahead. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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That answers/explains some things. Thanks.
I don't follow some of the more hardcore, tech end of things, so I wasn't aware of that stuff. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I highly recommend watching this mini-documentary. It's really, really good at explaining what's up.
https://youtu.be/OuF9weSkS68 ... |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Nothing we didn't already expect/assume, but here you go...Apple working on next-version of guts to go into iMac and MacBook Pro in 2021.
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I have to believe any new M-based iMac is accompanied by a redesign/new size, but I wonder what the chances are that they'll do what they did a few weeks ago and drop the new guts into familiar hardware, saving big hardware redesigns for the next go-around? |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Yeah, this bit is fun:
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- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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The interesting part in all of that is it is just for Apple. They aren't going to resell their chips so if you want that kind of hardware you're going to buy a Mac.
In the end proprietary is going to drive more away than performance will draw in I believe. Don't misunderstand me, they are great systems based on the current benchmarks and the rumors of what is to come. I'm looking forward to having one too. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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I don't know what you people are listening to that requires $800 headphones.
But I really wish the team working on the Airpods Max rolled out today had been working on the Apple Silicon iMac instead. |
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Why would there be a fourth M1 Mac in less than a month? Those iMacs have just been updated in summer, too.
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Why is simple, perception. It has no relevance on facts or performance but there are lots of builders who hate the idea of not being able to use off-the-shelf parts.
I think there are more that were willing to come when they could run Windows "easily" on their Macs because they were curious to the Apple noise. There will be less of that. I'm not saying Apple will lose its user base or anything silly like that, just less will be enticed when they see proprietary and soldered. Sure it is a small number in the grand scheme, but it is real. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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The number of people hearing the buzz about M1 who are not die-hard fans and rushing into the store to see them is just nuts.
The normal jabber from the folks at AN is "guys who know computers", which tends to lack "normal people who just use computers" perspective. I've never seen so many people with little or no computer knowledge coming in to see something with "this new M1 processor". Here's an example: We still have several early 2020 MacBook Air machines in stock at reduced prices. When some random person walks in and is given the choice of Intel-based Air or M1-based Air, they almost unanimously want the M1, even people who consider themselves computer illiterate. Sure, Apple will lose a few spec-whore-fixit-myself types, but for every one of those, I wager they will gain 10 people who just want the bloody thing to work. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I don't think the ratio is that high, but I won't argue the concept. Had I not been working where I was when I switched, I wouldn't have given Apple a change with their G4 processors. After all, I build my own systems and hate the bloat that comes with a Dell/HP etc.
Then again, I'm not the vast majority of users out there and that is who Apple is targeting. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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That's correct. Apple has never cared about the build-it-yourself market, and never will. They sell pre-assembled, pre-spec'ed systems to people who want that convenience.
The M1 will now give those pre-spec'ed systems a sizable performance advantage in very key areas, and perhaps in all areas. The jury is yet out, but my bet is on Apple pulling it off. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I'd bet heavily on them doing so.
"Why is simple, perception. It has no relevance on facts or performance but there are lots of builders who hate the idea of not being able to use off-the-shelf parts." Builders aren't buying Macs, and haven't for *years*, it's antithetical to the builder philosophy. I honestly don't know who would have purchased an Intel Mac a month ago, who would be turning down an M1 Mac now. I mean, if you absolutely *have* to run Windows, natively, booted directly via BootCamp, then yes, you're probably out of the running, but when the benchmarks running Windows/ARM in a hypervisor environment are faster than Windows/Intel directly on the old machines... that's kind of interesting. Yes, there are certainly going to be some people who think this is a bad move. I would gladly wager significant amounts of hard cash with them. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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I meant that the engineering resources could have been better utilized on the new Apple Silicon Macs. The Apple Silicon iMac was never going to debut today. But maybe the Pro line could be here faster if Apple Engineering wasn't busy designing and building $800 headphones that no-one was really asking for. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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*raises hand*
I'm one of those builders...and bought an Intel mini a little over a month ago. I know I'm a corner case, but I happen to have direct representation here thus my statements and stance. Please understand, I'm not disagreeing with you at all here just pointing out it is a much more definitive isolation point for "switchers". Basically, if you love iPhone, buy a Mac. If you don't, go with Dell/HP/Gateway (), etc... It isn't just me but also the circles I run in at work. My boss would likely freak out if he knew my "work computer" was a VM running on a Mac. The desktop they provided is an ESXi server for testing. The company I work for prides itself on running Windows Everything. So my coworkers tend to lean that way too. They are all geeks as I am so we talk about tech at the virtual water cooler. Everyone of them is distrusting of the stats on the new Macs and even less willing to consider them in any way now that they are no longer running Intel. These are intelligent people who just dismiss for the sole reason that it is proprietary. They also hate Cisco blades and such, but that is again, a corner case. These people aren't Apple's target now, but I still believe the move to proprietary is going to drive more away than performance will draw in. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I guess I wouldn't ever consider a Mac mini to be a "builder's" machine, so perhaps that's the confusion point. I was thinking ATX case, select a mobo and PSU, CPU, etc, etc, and you know... build it. Those folks obviously aren't going to be buying Apple no matter what the performance is like.
After years of essentially stagnation of Intel speed (oh yay, we got 8% this year! whee!) it looks like we're back to the early days of the industry, when we looked forward to rather crazy leaps year after year. That is going to alter the landscape considerably within two years. Maybe you're right, but I cannot for the life of me imagine how there are more people walking around who care about the brand on the processor, more than if it works well, provides more raw power, and at a reasonable price for those features. I mean, hell, I'm a CS researcher, developer, and consultant, and *I* don't give a crap about whether the CPU has Intel or an Apple logo... I want it to be stable, predictable behavior, and year over year always faster. The risk is primarily whether the migration can be managed effectively, and Apple has experience pulling that off with very little hitch. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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I honestly don't mind freelancing outside the usual product matrix. But this is all kinds of crazy. We're in the middle of the most important chip transition in the Mac's history. Why waste four years in time and engineering resources on a niche product that no-one is clamouring for? I'm sure the new headphones sound terrific and the 47 microphones inside will make quick work of relaying your most private thoughts directly to Google, Facebook, Five Eyes, Putin, Beijing, and Amazon. In Dolby surround sound. But Bose and Sony can already satisfy my overpriced audio gear needs. No one else on Earth can build me a 30" Apple Silicon iMac. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I just think they put a lot of priority/emphasis on the consumer electronics/"lifestyle" angle these days. Right or wrong, good or bad, that seems to be the company they are, and then "oh, yeah...we make computers too".
Although I'm hoping this M1 stuff is the sign of a returned emphasis on that front in the coming years. Because Macs sometimes have felt like an afterthought in recent years, sure enough. But I guess not all of that can be laid at Apple's feet? I don't know. Yeah, I was stunned to see such a thing - headphones - was four years in the making. That's about two-and-a-half more than I ever would've guessed. But if these are to be the iPhone of music-listening, I guess that takes some time. The cool, positive thing is...the iPhones are out of the way, these headphones are, as are the lower-end Macs. So 2021 has to hold some news/movement on the M1 transition to other Macs. I know there will be some iPad and other non-Mac stuff to come, but I'm betting by this time next year, the Macs most people buy/care about will be running on the new stuff. And we might be pleasantly surprised at the pace of that transition. A lot could happen by summer. I'm trying to take the optimistic view of this because I think they're further along, and have figured a lot of things out, already. That "two year" transition (announced at WWDC) is probably to allow them some buffer/wiggle room on the niche, higher-end Macs. I'd wager two tacos and a round of beer that by June 1, the iMac, and the 16" and two higher-end MacBook Pros (14"?) will be sporting the new stuff. And then that gives them an entire year to focus on any desktops with "pro" in the name, which nobody here seems all that interested in anyway. So I think most of us here will have what we want, come summer. I just hope they redesign those wheels and the display stand because I think both need a far more expensive, platinum-plated Deluxe Xtreme™ version. The current ones are for penniless chumps. ... ... Said no one, ever, in the history of anything. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Finally, you cretins, touchscreen Macs!
Just you wait. ... |
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Failing that, I’ll probably have to go back to a two-computer setup. Ew. Quote:
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