[kscherer]

Apparently, Apple employees threaten to quit as company takes hard line stance on remote work.

First, the way this article is written one might be lead to believe that hundreds, if not thousands, of Apple employees were threatening to quit because they're being asked to come back to the office. Turns out, there are roughly ten people making the threat.

Second, see ya! Bye-bye. Have a nice life. 👋🏻

Seriously, why can't we just be thankful to have a job? I'm sure there will be some folks who want to make this about "staying safe" and such, but if you're that concerned, put your faith in the vaccine and get vaccinated. Then, according to the CDC, you're completely safe and have nothing to worry about. Now, get back to work.

I suspect these folks have simply decided to take working from home for granted and will never take another work-from-the-office job, again. Easier to stay home, sleep in, yawn several times, poke the keyboard for a couple hours, leak some top secret documents to AI, hit your kids two or three times, take a nap, and then punch your time card for 8 hours even though you only worked 5.

I don't know. Hell, my job can't be done outside of the office. I never got to "take two weeks off and get paid for it" because we've been open for business through the whole pandemic thing. We've been here, busy and running in circles and putting up with holy-cow-these-people-are-crazy customers with serious cases of holier-than-thou disease and my-time-is-more-important-than-yours-itis.

I show up sober 1/2 an hour early, work my 8, and can count the number of times I've been late over the last 17 years on one hand. Now, there's "I've got kids at home that need beating", and "D' gubmint pays me to stay home" and "ain't pays me enough, so me don't work".

Grief. If it's my call, these folks show up or they get fired. Not "laid off", but fired. No unemployment for you! But, then it is California, so they probably get time and a half from Uncle Gov for their eternal suffering.

[PB PM]

Yeah, tough life guys. These full time office workers and the moaning I hear about 40 hour work weeks in the office kind of makes me chuckle. When I worked in an office (10 years ago), I had all the fancy benefits and vacation. It was nice, boring, and I'd never do it again. None of that now, I only get time off if the weather makes it impossible to work/stat holidays. Sorry, I won't shed a tear for pampered office workers.

I get people with medical issues having a problem, but if you cannot produce some evidence, why should they believe it? I can understand the angst if they want to see a full medical history - that ain't any of Apple's damn business - , but surely there is some way to work through it.

[Ryan]

Maybe I'm just too much of a spoiled Silicon Valley brat at this point, but I understand where those employees are coming from. Not sure about Apple, but so many SV companies are wedded to their open-office floorplans and a lot of us have realized there's an alternative and aren't willing to give that up.

Fortunately my employer has declared nobody ever has to return to the office. We still haven't re-opened—hopefully next month—but I'll just go in when I feel like. Weather's nice for a bike ride to the office? I'll go. Rain or snow? Eff that.

[Yontsey]

Fuck em. Let them walk. They’re not owed anything. They had the last year and a half off at home. Time to sack up and go back to the office.

[tomoe]

Originally Posted by Ryan Maybe I'm just too much of a spoiled Silicon Valley brat at this point, but I understand where those employees are coming from. Not sure about Apple, but so many SV companies are wedded to their open-office floorplans and a lot of us have realized there's an alternative and aren't willing to give that up. Fortunately my employer has declared nobody ever has to return to the office. We still haven't re-opened—hopefully next month—but I'll just go in when I feel like. Weather's nice for a bike ride to the office? I'll go. Rain or snow? Eff that.

Open Office layouts are fucking awful. Pre-pandemic, I relished "Work from home Wednesdays". Got way more shit done and didn't have to deal with the constant buzz of chatter/water cooler talk. Do miss some of the social aspects and access to a whiteboard for coding/brainstorming/etc. My current job has made vaccines required for return to work and also left whether or not we want to come to the office up to team managers.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Yontsey Fuck em. Let them walk. They’re not owed anything. They had the last year and a half off at home. Time to sack up and go back to the office.

With how tough hiring is in this industry, Apple needs those employees more than they need Apple.

[turtle]

I don't think it works like that. No business needs any one person. There are plenty who would step in to fill those shoes if they posted the job openings. Kinda like in the military, no one sailor/soldier is the key to anything. Everyone (employment wise at least) is replaceable. Never forget that.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by turtle I don't think it works like that. No business needs any one person. There are plenty who would step in to fill those shoes if they posted the job openings. Kinda like in the military, no one sailor/soldier is the key to anything. Everyone (employment wise at least) is replaceable. Never forget that.

Sure, but that comes at a cost. Replacing one engineer at Apple probably runs $100-200k, plus lost momentum on whatever they were working on. Filling those positions takes 3-6 months. If enough engineers start leaving, that becomes a real problem.

And I know they're leaving because they're coming to us—a company that is not forcing everyone back to the office. I've been interviewing them and WFH is a common reason they're looking for a new employer.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Yontsey Fuck em. Let them walk. They’re not owed anything. They had the last year and a half off at home. Time to sack up and go back to the office.

Honestly, if my employer forced me back to the office now, I'd walk too. This industry is way too competitive to put up with demands like that, and there are good employers large and small who aren't shooting themselves in the foot like this.

In the software development world, there is almost no reason to require employees to physically co-locate. The "best" argument I've seen is that it allows management to feel more useful by enabling physical observation and micromanagement. If these businesses were smart, they'd realize that they can also save a shit-ton of money by not having to pay upkeep on leases, restock snacks and drinks, maintain janitorial staff, etc. by reducing their in-person office footprints.

Originally Posted by Ryan Fortunately my employer has declared nobody ever has to return to the office. We still haven't re-opened—hopefully next month—but I'll just go in when I feel like. Weather's nice for a bike ride to the office? I'll go. Rain or snow? Eff that.

Ditto. I like the option of going into an office. There are some perks to sharing a common space. Most of the time, though? I and most people I know are much happier and far more productive when they can work where they want away from the noise and distractions of typical offices.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by turtle I don't think it works like that. No business needs any one person. There are plenty who would step in to fill those shoes if they posted the job openings. Kinda like in the military, no one sailor/soldier is the key to anything. Everyone (employment wise at least) is replaceable. Never forget that.

^ This.

At a private club I worked at many moons ago, we had a senior bookkeeper who thought she was all that, and that she was irreplaceable. I called her out on something, and she promptly quit with the attitude that "You'll never replace me!" Needless to say, we had a new hire to replace her within a week. The club struggled for a couple weeks while we sorted things out, but then we got moving right along. At that same club, the GM and DRM were having an affair, got caught, and promptly fired with no replacements in site. The Executive Chef and I both got promoted, took over, and had the club running smooth as glass within a week.

No one is irreplaceable. Not me, not you, not Steve Jobs, not no one.

As far as that handful of Apple employees are concerned, I guarantee Apple can function without them. They're over-valuing themselves in relation to Apple. Can they get more elsewhere? Perhaps, and perhaps not.

Now, if your employer is willing to let you work from home, great! I see nothing at all wrong with it. Nothing! BUT! If your employer requires you to work from the office, then that's the job, and I suggest you get to it or quit and let someone have the job that wants it. It will probably be someone from India or SE Asia who had almost nothing growing up, and recognizes the great opportunity that comes from living in places that aren't buried in 3rd-world horrors. I welcome them with open arms*, and love their work ethic.

I'll also concede that some folks can negotiate their own compensation, and working from home may be part of that. Great. There are companies out there that want to talk to you. And there are lots of others who want you to report in. If you don't want to report in, then move on.

FWIW, the day my boss lets me work from home is the last day I come down here. But, for right now he requires me to be here, so I come to work, because I'm responsible like that.

* We have a regular customer that comes into the shop. He's from The Sudan, and suffered as a youngster with rampant civil war, hunger, and the eternal search for potable water, and he knows the value of a cold Coca Cola—a rare treat where he's from. As a teenager, his professor-father was just successful enough to escape with his family to Egypt, where they were able to catch a boat to the United States. Wari is one of the hardest working people I know, is honest, and makes a decent living selling legitimate electronics out of the trunk of his car. He doesn't steal and doesn't expect handouts, but but he loves to negotiate over everything! We regularly talk of his youth and his struggles, and I love that he knows how blessed he is to live in the U.S.. IMHO, we need more of him. He works without complaint, knows what it means to actually suffer, and laughs his ass off when he hears us complain about this stuff.