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Lightning Connector DOESN'T Use Thunderbolt??


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Lightning Connector DOESN'T Use Thunderbolt??
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2012-09-13, 02:09

Then HOW COME it's called "lightning"???

Looks like USB to ME....

Dumb Apple is Dumb.



...
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SpecMode
Wait what
 
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2012-09-13, 02:24

Using Thunderbolt for iOS device syncing would be ludicrously overkill. Even on USB 2, you're still mostly limited by the speed of the device's onboard flash storage, which (as AnandTech tested earlier this year) is somewhat less than spectacular. It'd be a waste of a Thunderbolt port, at least until iOS devices start getting internal storage with SSD class performance.
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
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2012-09-13, 03:41

And let's not forget that most PCs don't even have TB. Apple would be restricting their potential customers to people with newer Macs. Somewhat like the original iPod and it's FW connection.
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Brad
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2012-09-13, 07:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Then HOW COME it's called "lightning"???
Exactly what I was wondering. Naming it that just seems dumb. Apple seems to be on a weather-related naming fetish lately.
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Matsu
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2012-09-13, 08:16

I wonder what the adaptive interface refers to? On the one hand it keeps the dock end of things proprietary, but maybe it allows them to offer USB2/3 and thunderbolt cables in the future?

Anyway, I don't think that iPod/Pads/Phones will ever move to thunderbolt, just future USB iterations. Too many PC users out there to accomodate.

.........................................
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turbulentfurball
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2012-09-13, 08:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Exactly what I was wondering. Naming it that just seems dumb. Apple seems to be on a weather-related naming fetish lately.
Nah, it's a Bohemian Rhapsody theme. The bismillah bus will be next.
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torifile
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2012-09-13, 08:39

What would a TB interface actually do for an iPhone, though?
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Matsu
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2012-09-13, 08:59

Nothing. Which is why Apple won't use it. USB is ubiquitous and cheap. Thunderbolt will only ever see any significant PC adoption if it takes off for connected displays.

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Moogs
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2012-09-13, 09:31

Agree it's a stupid name. Sort of implies a relationship to Thunderbolt when there is none. Also agree there's no reason to use something like Thunderbolt on a phone.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Brad
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2012-09-13, 09:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbulentfurball View Post
Nah, it's a Bohemian Rhapsody theme. The bismillah bus will be next.
Very very frightening.
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SKMDC
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2012-09-13, 10:11

Well it makes perfect sense, a thunderbolt is a crash of thunder with a simultaneous strike of lightning, Lightning is just lightning, lesser of the two.
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Kraetos
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2012-09-13, 10:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Exactly what I was wondering. Naming it that just seems dumb. Apple seems to be on a weather-related naming fetish lately.
I think it's less weather and more "sky" in general. Thunderbolt, Lightning, Cloud, Air.
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splacid
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Join Date: Feb 2007
 
2012-09-13, 10:24

It's a bad name because Apple uses a lightning bolt icon for Thunderbolt ports on Macs.
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SKMDC
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2012-09-13, 10:35

It's a lesser version of the same icon, does no one understand nuance?
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noleli2
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2012-09-13, 16:41

Apple's adapter says "Video and iPod Out not supported". Does "iPod Out" mean line out, or just iPod control? http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD...30-pin-adapter
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Luca
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2012-09-13, 17:16

I was going to say Apple are being pigheaded and stupid for insistently coming up with their own proprietary connector that is really just a rearranged microUSB port and then naming it very similarly to their "Thunderbolt" port despite it having nothing to do with the latter.

Then I saw it's reversible.

I'd say that makes up for everything in my mind.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
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2012-09-13, 17:57

I keep seeing this 'just microUSB rearranged' claim, but microUSB is five pins, Lightning is eight pins.

So.... 'splain please.
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kscherer
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2012-09-13, 18:07

Well, it's actually because Thunderbolt requires an Intel chipset. Apple helped develop Thunderbolt, but Intel owns the tech, and it is only supported by certain Intel Core-series chipsets. The ARM architecture does not support it, so Apple cannot include it without using Intel processors and their supporting architecture, something that Intel hasn't figured out how to get into a power-conscious, super-mobile form.

Thunderbolt is a combination of PCI Express and Displayport, using Apple's Mini Displayport connector. So, the chipset is too big to fit, Apple wouldn't use it if it could (not as efficient as ARM), and the connector is actually thicker than the 30-pin dock connector.

Believe me, Apple would have included it had they been able to, but it isn't there yet.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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kscherer
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2012-09-13, 18:47



From the Wikipedia joint.

Edit: Dang, that's a big pic! …which is why it won't fit!
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Kickaha
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2012-09-13, 20:00

Video out supported:

http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/12/09...miting.factor/

Apple has announced that Lightning to VGA and Lightning to HDMI cables are forthcoming. The Lightning to Dock adapter cables support analog audio out, as well as USB audio, synchronization, and charging needs. The "iPod Out" protocol allows peripherals to display the iOS device's display, and is commonly used with in-dash entertainment centers.

So the question is - doable over 5 pin microUSB or not?

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
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Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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Luca
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2012-09-14, 23:05

Well I know that most Android phones now support hdmi through the micro USB port with an adapter, but I'm not sure how much of that stuff is doable with USB.
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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2012-09-15, 04:57

Luca, do you mean that HDMI output with an adapter is doable over micro-USB, but not necessarily over regular USB, or did you mean that HDMI via USB is not an optimal solution?

The latter would certainly be enough to make Apple go with their own connector type.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
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2012-09-15, 08:09

I'm awfully confused now. I just need a side by side comparison chart of how it stacks up against the previous iterations of port/cabling.


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Kickaha
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2012-09-15, 11:42

I think what Luca means is that the Android sets are re-using the microUSB port and wires, but pumping an HDMI signal through them instead of a USB signal, when you want video out.

So while it's using a microUSB port, it's not using the USB protocols.

In other words... it's a proprietary re-use and co-opting of USB to do something different. Which, strictly speaking, is against the usual agreement of licensing a standards port in the first place. Remember Sony's re-use of a USB port for DisplayPort because they didn't want to pay for the DP port license? Remember how they got slapped down for it by the USB consortium? I'm not sure how this is different.

But golly it makes for good PR in some circles. "We're using microUSB for *everything*!" "Yaaaaaay!"

Meh.

And that's before we get into the power limits/requirements of USB... IIRC, USB3 currently has a 0.9A limit, while the iPad draws 2.0A. Again, while the Nexus 7 does that via microUSB, it's again breaking the standard in doing so.

Yay standards.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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Quagmire
meh
 
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2012-09-15, 12:08

Didn't Apple make the DisplayPort license free?
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Kickaha
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2012-09-15, 12:13

You're right, I'm thinking ThunderBolt.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sony-...t-200981.shtml

Point is, the USB Consortium frowns on re-using USB ports for non-USB protocols, and I can't blame them. The standard is the plug *and* the protocol. Use one, use both.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.

Last edited by Kickaha : 2012-09-15 at 12:26.
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kscherer
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2012-09-15, 14:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Didn't Apple make the DisplayPort license free?
Mini DisplayPort, yes. The standard DisplayPort connector does not belong to them.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
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2012-09-19, 00:26

This New York Times Article makes a subtle point that despite all of your collective blather had not struck me yet:

the iPhone's biggest advantage was the installed base of devices designed for the 30-pin connector.

With the slate wiped clean will as many build to support the new connector?

Probably, but not necessarily.


...

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PB PM
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2012-09-19, 00:45

Considering how many devices are going to be on the market soon, millions, companies would be foolish not to update their stuff to be comparable with the new connector. Maybe not today, but give them a year or two. Two years, because anyone who got an iPhone 4s will be looking for a new phone about then (2-3 year contacts).
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Eugene
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2012-09-20, 06:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Mini DisplayPort, yes. The standard DisplayPort connector does not belong to them.
DisplayPort is a royalty-free VESA standard, though DPCP requires a license of some sort from DCP, LLC. I'm not sure if that has a per-port fee.
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