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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-23, 19:11

I agree.
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wtd
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2009-10-24, 09:11

The problem with advertising the Mac mini is that it's a good vehicle for switching, but not a good way to entice people to do so.

It's just too similar. Computer users spend the vast majority of their time dealing with their computer's monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse. With the Mac mini, they keep using all of those same things. With an iMac (even pre-Tuesday) a 20" or 24" LCD was a huge improvement. The lack of cables is a huge improvement. Even the hated Mighty Mouse was an improvement over the terrible mice most Windows users (at least, those who don't care about mice) have.

The iMac (especially the new ones) gets the average Windows user to say "Wow, I want that!" The best the Mac mini can do (unless confronted by a SFF PC enthusiast) is elicit a "I could afford that" response. Which do you think Apple wants in their ads?
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chucker
 
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2009-10-24, 09:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtd View Post
Even the hated Mighty Mouse was an improvement over the terrible mice most Windows users (at least, those who don't care about mice) have.
I'll take a $5 cheapo mouse over the Mighty Mouse any day. Sure, it's crap, but at least it doesn't get dirty and doesn't go out of its way to make easy stuff hard.
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Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-10-24, 11:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I'll take a $5 cheapo mouse over the Mighty Mouse any day. Sure, it's crap, but at least it doesn't get dirty and doesn't go out of its way to make easy stuff hard.
I think I'd like to give it a try before I make that call myself. Gestures work great on the iPhone/Touch. I am not sure that it won't work great, in its own way, on a mouse.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-24, 11:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
I think I'd like to give it a try before I make that call myself. Gestures work great on the iPhone/Touch. I am not sure that it won't work great, in its own way, on a mouse.
I think you guys are talking about different mice, Magic vs. Mighty.
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chucker
 
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2009-10-24, 11:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciej View Post
I think you guys are talking about different mice, Magic vs. Mighty.
Indeed. I haven't tried the Magic Mouse (in fact, I imagine very few people have, so far). I was referring to the Mighty Mouse.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-24, 11:16

I think I'm gonna go try it out tonight - if it's instore already. It's gotta be if the new iMacs have arrived.

Anyone know how they keep the wireless mice from getting stolen? Usually they have wired stuff just leashed down.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-24, 12:20

Heading over to the airport in a few hours to pick up someone. I might skootch by Best Buy on the way (leave a bit early) and check out the new goodies for myself...

Yes, I'm looking forward to giving that Magic Mouse a go. And if they have them in stock, well...



I said I'd never do a wireless/Bluetooth mouse again, but I could be persuaded if this is as functional and handy as I'm hoping.
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Chinney
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2009-10-24, 12:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciej View Post
I think you guys are talking about different mice, Magic vs. Mighty.
Woops. Sorry about that. My mistake.

Anyhow, I too want to try the new mouse. I just bought a nice little Logitech V470 Bluetooth for my iMac G5, but I'll probably be replacing the whole shebang within a year with a new iMac, so I want to see what sort of mouse I'll be getting with that.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-24, 15:13

Wow...just saw - and used - the new iMacs (and MacBook). The 27", because of the new 16:9 ratio (and perhaps sitting a little lower on the arm?), isn't nearly as "huge" as I'd imagined. The screen is, of course, but the body doesn't feel that much larger than the discontinued 24" iMac.

Yeah...I love it.



The mouse was nice too! They didn't have any Magic Mice in stock to sell...bummer. I probbly would've grabbed one.

The new MacBook looks great too. It's another one of those "gotta see it in real life to appreciate" products from Apple. It's not as pudgy or goofy-looking as that one from-the-side photo at Apple's site makes it look. And it's very "luggable", with those rounded curves. Display looks great, and the side port panel is so clean and "easy" with the few ports it has. Looks more "futuristic" and sleek than the previous model, I thought.

Best part? A HUGE crowd was all around the entire Apple section.

Second best part? Yours truly helped sell two iMacs and a 13" MacBook Pro.

What can I say? Perhaps a bit of Steve's RDF powers rubbed off on me and shows itself in those situations? I was demoing iPhoto and rattling off specs and pricing for assembled strangers. Answered every question, pointed out all the new feautures, showed some Snow Leopard eye candy, etc.



Also gave my name, email and phone number to three different people...

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Chinney
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2009-10-24, 15:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post

[...]

Also gave my name, email and phone number to three different people...

Of the female persuasion.....?
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-24, 15:47

Two couples and a guy.

No funny business...strictly advice/set-up/file transfer/training stuff.

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Artap99
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2009-10-24, 15:56

I bought the new 21.7" iMac today. I am really enjoying the mouse (I should add that I liked the Mighty Mouse, too). The fact that there is only one wire coming out of it is a big bonus for my cluttered desk.
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Capella
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2009-10-24, 16:14

OMG I saw the 27" one today. That thing is HUGE. I can't imagine using all that real estate.
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PB PM
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2009-10-24, 16:17

Capella, I said the same thing when I moved from a 19" to a 22" wide-screen monitor. Now I have the feeling that there is never enough desktop space. I think I could use a 30 monitor with ease.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-24, 16:44

I actually do really well on my 20" iMac (suddenly that seems so small, after Tuesday's announcements ). But, yes...I could deal with that 27" model, for sure! But going from my 15" PowerBook G4 to this 20" iMac was such a huge step up, that I'm still impressed and happy with it, a year later.

Funny thing...when I first arrived to Best Buy, someone had set the resolution on the 27" to 1920x1080, the resolution for the 21.5 model. It looked weird and blurry and "klunky". At first I wasn't too impressed, but then it hit me what might be going on. Sure enough, I checked and then put it on the proper (2560x1440) settings and it suddenly got a whole lot cooler and more attractive.



Gobs of space on that puppy! Its vertical resolution is the horizontal resolution of the older 17" iMacs or the current 15" MacBook Pros!



And its horizontal is that of the 30" Cinema Display. That's a lot of room to play in...

I felt like I was looking into the world, standing in front of that thing!

I'm sure, a couple of years from now, that will be my next Mac! Can't imagine wanting anything else.

It's kinda hard to do that "two-finger swipe" on the new Magic Mouse because suddenly you're holding the thing only with your thumb on one side and ring finger and pinky on the other. I'm sure a little while of "real use" and you could easily master that "swipe, but hold the mouse still with the remaining fingers" move okay. But it was wearing me out.



BTW, now more than ever, I'm convinced that iPhoto is the honey that attracts the switcher bee. Everyone surfs and e-mails...that's nothing new, and it's not that different from a PC to a Mac, at least on the surface. And even Windows users have access to iTunes and all its goodness. But I don't think people realize how useful (and valuable) their digital cameras can be until they're exposed to something like iPhoto. It was the app that people responded to most when I was doing my little demo/Q&A session this afternoon.



But I've seen it numerous times before, with all my switching scenarios, and I definitely saw it today. Once folks got a good idea of what such an app truly meant and represented in their actual lives (photos finally off the camera and organized for easy viewing, easily enhanced and then shared with others), I saw many eyes lighting up...

Who doesn't have a digital camera these days?

Exactly.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2009-10-24 at 17:11.
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Dorian Gray
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Location: Paris, France
 
2009-10-24, 16:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I'm convinced that iPhoto is the honey that attracts the switcher bee.
You might be right. When my dad - a severe technophobe - got a Mac, he didn't really learn how to use it any more than he ever learned how to use his previous Windows laptop. He just surfs the web, emails, watches the odd video, etc. The big change is that I don't have to deal with dozens of viruses and other malware every few months when I visit. However, he's really clicked with iPhoto, and entirely by his own accord. He's a wizard in there: importing, adjusting and exporting his photos for email like nobody's business! And he loves it.
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2009-10-24, 16:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
It's kinda hard to do that "two-finger swipe" on the new Magic Mouse because suddenly you're holding the thing only with your thumb on one side and ring finger and pinky on the other. I'm sure a little while of "real use" and you could easily master that "swipe, but hold the mouse still with the remaining fingers" move okay. But it was wearing me out.
I struggled a bit with the Magic Mouse but learned the key was not to wrap your hand around it, but rather hover over it and swipe it lightly.

Granted, there's still a chance the mouse will move, but at least you're not doing some awkward thumb/pinky finger grip and forefinger swipe.

I doubt I would use that feature anyways. It's not the most natural. I do however like the intuitiveness gesture to scroll down a page.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-24, 17:22

Went to BestBuy to get the Tivo USB wireless adapter, and headed over to the Apple section. Wow the 27" iMac is amazing. The screen is beautiful. IPS is an amazing technology. Have it on my 47" LG HDTV and love it. Viewing angles are great no doubt then. Though our BestBuy still had the Mighty Mouse on the table so no demo of Magic Mouse.

giggity
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-24, 17:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
You might be right. When my dad - a severe technophobe - got a Mac, he didn't really learn how to use it any more than he ever learned how to use his previous Windows laptop. He just surfs the web, emails, watches the odd video, etc. The big change is that I don't have to deal with dozens of viruses and other malware every few months when I visit. However, he's really clicked with iPhoto, and entirely by his own accord. He's a wizard in there: importing, adjusting and exporting his photos for email like nobody's business! And he loves it.
Same here, with both my parents. I sat down and showed them the basics, but both have blossomed on their own. Mom just got back from an autumn driving tour of New England, and she did the one-click "enhance" on her pics, but is also delving more into the exposure/balance settings and doing finer tuning. Plus, she's brushed out a stray pole or phone wire, and even straightened a few lake shots with tilting/crooked horizons. I never showed her any of that stuff directly!



Dad is the same way. They dove into it out of pure, genuine interest and curiosity (which is when you truly tend to learn, retain and appreciate things).
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2009-10-25, 01:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
You might be right. When my dad - a severe technophobe - got a Mac, he didn't really learn how to use it any more than he ever learned how to use his previous Windows laptop. He just surfs the web, emails, watches the odd video, etc. The big change is that I don't have to deal with dozens of viruses and other malware every few months when I visit. However, he's really clicked with iPhoto, and entirely by his own accord. He's a wizard in there: importing, adjusting and exporting his photos for email like nobody's business! And he loves it.
Yup, my Dad is the same way with iPhoto. I think he uses iPhoto more than any other program, well other than Safari that is.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-25, 03:42

I'm going to pick a few nits. It might make more sense to stick to bundling a wired keyboard with a numeric pad. Plugging in to USB is a bit inconvenient without it. Or they could put a USB port at the bottom edge of the screen, under the SD slot, so people don't have to reach behind the iMac. USB appears on the front panel of just about every desktop to facilitate the basically ubiquitous use of USB keys as file transfer media. The old USB on the keyboard was an elegant solution to this. It looks liek it's still an option.

If they're going to do a wireless keyboard, why not integrate a wrist rest and put a track-pad right into it? The screen on the iMac is big enough that I could lean way back in a stuffed chair and use the keyboard on my lap -- until I have to reach for the mouse...

The best solution to the Magic Mouse may still be no mouse - don't know how they could brand it. Just get rid of the mouse altogether and bundle a trackpad surface of sufficient size, like a standard small mouse-pad. It could be programed for virtually any gestural/multi-touch controls and has no ergonomic issues associated with mice.

.........................................
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PB PM
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2009-10-25, 03:59

The problem with multi-touch is that it still is not accurate enough for some things, like low level editing of graphics and things as such.
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SpecMode
Wait what
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: El Dorado County, California
 
2009-10-25, 04:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
The problem with multi-touch is that it still is not accurate enough for some things, like low level editing of graphics and things as such.
Agreed. I'll stick with my Intuos4 when I'm working in Lightroom and Photoshop.

I just about put in an order for the Core i7 27-incher, before I realized that I'm possibly going to be moving back to the States within the next 3-6 months, and packing the thing up and shipping it (and the 24-inch iMac I'm using right now, for that matter) is going to be a HUGE pain in the arse when the time comes.

I'm going to be highly tempted again, I suspect, when the local Navy Exchange gets these suckers in stock next month and I actually get to try one out (assuming I don't make it up to Yokohama or Tokyo anytime soon). It'll be very, very nice working with that huge screen in Lightroom, and the (presumably) better color quality from the IPS tech will be that much more of a draw.
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chucker
 
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2009-10-25, 05:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'm going to pick a few nits. It might make more sense to stick to bundling a wired keyboard with a numeric pad. Plugging in to USB is a bit inconvenient without it. Or they could put a USB port at the bottom edge of the screen, under the SD slot, so people don't have to reach behind the iMac. USB appears on the front panel of just about every desktop to facilitate the basically ubiquitous use of USB keys as file transfer media.
Agreed.

Quote:
The old USB on the keyboard was an elegant solution to this. It looks liek it's still an option.
It is. The wireless one, regular one and regular full-size one are all the same BTO price.

Quote:
If they're going to do a wireless keyboard, why not integrate a wrist rest and put a track-pad right into it?
As much as I agree that a trackpad would probably work much better than the Magic Mouse (and early reports seem to confirm this), I think part of the wireless keyboard's appeal is its size / form factor.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-25, 05:59

I've never had a problem with the trackpad on my MBP. I never use a mouse any more unless I'm on a desktop. The track-pad is as accurate, however, it is small. It's fine on the 15" screen of the MBP, and for the very light photo-retouching that I do. I think the only problem would be to make it bigger, in my experience it's as accurate as a mouse would be. Actually, more so: with a mouse, the pointer tends to jitter a bit when you're trying to manipulate something just a pixel or to wide -- they can be too fast.

.........................................
  quote
Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-25, 06:22

Let me just add that it looks like Wacom last month update its Bamboo consumer line-up of tablets to include pen and multi-touch input. It remains to be seen how their multi-touch implementation matches up with Apple's.

The larger Bambo Craft model looks pretty nice, and has a greater range of pressure sensitivity than the Bamboo.. Not so long ago, this all the Intuos had, so not bad. It doesn't have the tilt angle sensor of the new Intuos, but it looks pretty good for the features it has.

.........................................
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PB PM
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2009-10-25, 13:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I've never had a problem with the trackpad on my MBP. I never use a mouse any more unless I'm on a desktop. The track-pad is as accurate, however, it is small. It's fine on the 15" screen of the MBP, and for the very light photo-retouching that I do. I think the only problem would be to make it bigger, in my experience it's as accurate as a mouse would be. Actually, more so: with a mouse, the pointer tends to jitter a bit when you're trying to manipulate something just a pixel or to wide -- they can be too fast.
Accuracy is fine as long as you aren't dragging too much. For small movements it is fine, but I'll take a mouse over a trackpad any day if I am doing photo editing. Not saying that I don't do some with the trackpad on my MBP, but if precision is important, I'll use a mouse.
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chucker
 
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2009-10-25, 14:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Accuracy is fine as long as you aren't dragging too much. For small movements it is fine, but I'll take a mouse over a trackpad any day if I am doing photo editing. Not saying that I don't do some with the trackpad on my MBP, but if precision is important, I'll use a mouse.
I'm not sure what makes you think a mouse is any more or less accurate than a trackpad. They both use acceleration curves. Slow down your movement and the results will be more granular.
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PB PM
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2009-10-25, 14:35

It isn't the tracking that's the problem, its how my fingers move over the trackpad. When it comes to fine, 1 pixel clicking a mouse is far more accurate in my experience, although I have to say that the glass trackpads on the newer notebooks are far better than the older models.
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