[DrGruv]

7448

(Check out the huge slide presentation to a european conference)

I hope powerlogix comes back with this one and leap frogs everyone again / or at least do the 7447a duals at 1.73ghz like gigadesign's.

Perhaps they have been waiting for freescale to deliver these?


http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE

[Enki]

Yeah, They'll be waiting until 2H05 for planned shipping in quantity. It's not even slated to go into full production until 1H05. That's assuming no problems in production, something EVERYONE else has had plenty of at 90nm.

[thegeek]

Dual 1.5 GHz G4s versus a single 1.6 or 1.8 G5? I'd take the G4s any day of the week.

[DrGruv]

Interesting tidbit from giga and xlr8:

On a discreet page, Giga designs admits that the 1.73GHz 7447 upgrades are no faster than a 1.467GHz 7455. It seems that the lack of level 3 cache offsets the 18% clock increase.
The new chips, however, do draw less power. (much less)

[Luca]

Hmm... I could see admitting that there is not much difference between 1.467 GHz and 1.73 GHz, especially since the former has L3 cache. But you also have to remember that the 7447 has double the L2 cache, with 512 kb instead of a Celeron-esque 256 kb. L3 is the only thing the 7455 has going for it. Also, I don't think anyone's been able to incorporate L3 cache into a G4 running that fast. Once you get above 1.4 GHz, L3 cache starts to hold the processor back, MHz-wise. I recall someone saying that if they disabled L3 cache on their processor upgrade, they were able to overclock a bit higher.

[DrGruv]

thanx for the info - I thought powerlogix would 'out do' giga by adding an L3 cache - but apparently as you say, the L3 just won't work - But I'd still take a - lower power - stable dual 1.5ghz (aka 7447a's at 1.73ghz) from powerlogix. they are ready to release at the end of the month - i'm telling them to announce the new products NOW

maybe they'll have some new surprise that will wow the upgrade crowd...

i can't decide if i should jump in (get the upgrade) or wait till macworld '05 and get a new tower if antares is ready (probably not until summer)

I've updated my video card, and maxed out memory and put in a dvr-106 into my quicksilver 2002 - could still get more use from it with an upgrade

ah well... decisions, decisions, decisions

[Luca]

A dual 1.5-1.73 GHz G4 would kick the ass of any single processor G5 system released to date, and it would even give the dual 1.8 G5 a run for its money. Given the low price compared to a new dual 1.8, I'd say it would compare favorably.

[unixguru]

Originally Posted by Luca Hmm... I could see admitting that there is not much difference between 1.467 GHz and 1.73 GHz, especially since the former has L3 cache. But you also have to remember that the 7447 has double the L2 cache, with 512 kb instead of a Celeron-esque 256 kb. L3 is the only thing the 7455 has going for it. Also, I don't think anyone's been able to incorporate L3 cache into a G4 running that fast. Once you get above 1.4 GHz, L3 cache starts to hold the processor back, MHz-wise. I recall someone saying that if they disabled L3 cache on their processor upgrade, they were able to overclock a bit higher.

The 744x processors do not support L3. The 745x processors do. The 744x was originally intended for embedded application and the 745x for "host" (desktop) application. That's why the 745x supports L3. It just needs to get move to a move advanced manufacturing process.

I don't know how the cache is mapped in the 7447, but I'm guessing it's 4-way set associative. When you're dealing with as much memory as OS X and its apps require, 512K isn't a lot, especially when you're operating over a 133Mhz or 166Mhz bus to main memory. 512K on a 133/166Mhz bus would be more appropriate for embedded applications where there is less memory being used. For a G4 to do very well above 1.5Ghz on the MPX, I think you are really going to need a sizeable L3.

I highly doubt that the 744x at 1.7/1.8Ghz would be comparable in performance to a 970 for those reasons. Also, its core logic just isn't as sophisticated as a 970.

[byzantium]

..and when you start dealing with 64 bit applications, the requirement for a faster memory bus is going to be even more important.

A 32 bit app compiled for 64 bit, is going to have a larger memory footprint, and in some cases actually be slower. Getting 64 bit data to and from memory and the processor will take longer on the G4 because of the speed of the bus.

The PowerPC was always designed to be 64 bit (yes, even your G3 and G4).

IMO the real benefit of a next generation PB may not be which processor is used, but how fast the FSB is and decent support for OS improvements like CoreImage.

Seeing as the FSB is only going to go up in speed with a G5 PB, there's not a chance I'd buy another G4 PB, no matter how fast, until that happens.

[LewsTherin]

Originally Posted by DrGruv thanx for the info - I thought powerlogix would 'out do' giga by adding an L3 cache - but apparently as you say, the L3 just won't work - But I'd still take a - lower power - stable dual 1.5ghz (aka 7447a's at 1.73ghz) from powerlogix. they are ready to release at the end of the month - i'm telling them to announce the new products NOW

Powerlogix is releasing new stuff? I read awhile back that they were suing their manufacturers and distributors who they allege tried to steal their designs by running them out of business by manufacturing substandard parts. Powerlogix just designs the upgrades; they rely on contractors to build the parts.
Lawsuit press release

[DrGruv]

yes, they are releasing new stuff! (or at least the same stuff from a new manufacturer) I would think though that they would 'upgrade' the dual 7457's. But as we get into this thread, I'm not sure. IE: would the Dual 7457 (1.33ghz) with a larger L3 cache be better than the Dual 7447's with no L3 but higher ghz. (1.73ghz)

I've been in email contact with the company. They are shipping "at the end of this month, at the earliest."

Throw this in the mix, This is from MacBytes:

In related news, the latest unofficial reports regarding PowerLogix indicate that Dual G4/1.2-1.4GHz 7457 with 4MB of L3 cache upgrades for the Cube are expected to ship sometime before the end of the year. I'd call that a new performance standard for Cube!

I'm hearing "proprietary VRM bypass", so power will in no way be an issue for these. Furthermore, a single G4/7457 @ 1.4GHz with 512K L2 1:1 and 2MB L3 is comparable in performance to a single G4/7447 @ 1.7GHz - which has only the 512K L2 cache an no L3.

Look for Dual pricing in the $599 range - a nice performance boost for not much more cash. Single G4 7457 @ 1.4GHz should be around $399 - which will give the same performance as the Sonnet G4/7447 @ 1.7GHz, but for 20% less.

[MCQ]

Originally Posted by Luca A dual 1.5-1.73 GHz G4 would kick the ass of any single processor G5 system released to date, and it would even give the dual 1.8 G5 a run for its money. Given the low price compared to a new dual 1.8, I'd say it would compare favorably.

Well, a dual 1.5+ G4 kicking a Single 1.8 G5 isn't really saying much.

Unixguru: The L2 cache in the 7447/7457 is 8-way set associative. And yeah, it could really use a bump to 1 MB.

[unixguru]

Originally Posted by DrGruv yes, they are releasing new stuff! (or at least the same stuff from a new manufacturer) I would think though that they would 'upgrade' the dual 7457's. But as we get into this thread, I'm not sure. IE: would the Dual 7457 (1.33ghz) with a larger L3 cache be better than the Dual 7447's with no L3 but higher ghz. (1.73ghz) In related news, the latest unofficial reports regarding PowerLogix indicate that Dual G4/1.2-1.4GHz 7457 with 4MB of L3 cache upgrades for the Cube are expected to ship sometime before the end of the year. I'd call that a new performance standard for Cube! I'm hearing "proprietary VRM bypass", so power will in no way be an issue for these. Furthermore, a single G4/7457 @ 1.4GHz with 512K L2 1:1 and 2MB L3 is comparable in performance to a single G4/7447 @ 1.7GHz - which has only the 512K L2 cache an no L3.

For desktop apps, especially OS X, I'd say the Dual 7457 with large L3 cache would be the winner, at least with dual processors. You're talking about a 133/166Mhz system bus to feed TWO processors. The single 7447 at higher clock might be comparable with a single 7457... that might be close.

VRM bypass... interesting.

[DrGruv]

why is VRM bypass interesting? What does it mean? (sorry if this is a simple, basic question)

[DrGruv]

OWC has powerlogix coming in 14 days... they are very tight with powerlogix, (in fact the phone numbers on the contact page at powerlogix goes to owc - found on google search )

Here's from their page:

PowerLogix Powerforce57 DUAL G4-7457@1.33GHz with 512K 1:1 On-Chip L2 & 2MB L3 Cache Per Processor for all PowerMac G4 'QuickSilver' Models. New, 2yr PowerLogix/OWC Warranty. (PLGPF57DQ13334M)
$729.99

14 Days

can't find any info if they used to have the 512k 1:1 L2 or if this is new...

[thegeek]

Ahh, yet another upgrade for the Quicksilvers yet my MDD is still stuck at 867.

[Henriok]

Was there really any new info about 7448, e600 or e700? I didn't find any. What did I miss?

[DrGruv]

The new web page went up with the all the presentations - pdf's - charts, etc... (to my understanding, more detailed information)

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps...e=DRPPCDUALCORE

[unixguru]

No surprises -- Freescale is still using the same old core, but squeaking out a bit more performance by going to a more advanced .09 micron process.

[DrGruv]

powerlogix new cube dual upgrade - leaked photo

http://www.cubeowner.com/forums//ind...=post&id=51467

[DrGruv]

after seeing the pic... i would guess powerlogix will go with the (when available) 7448 while others (powerlogix included) use the 7447 or 7457 - - the 7448 is pin comp. with the others...

pretty cool design in the above picture - everything looks nicely laid out and streamlined...