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The New Mac Pro
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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2019-06-03, 13:26

Hell yeah it's here!
  • welcome back to the cheesegrater design
  • 300W and a massive cooling setup for its Xeon processors
  • 1.5TB of system memory as an option (oh god at what cost)
  • PCI expansion back to the Mac in a big way (multiple double and single height slots and an I/O board in a half-height card slot w/Thunderbolt
  • an MPX Module (MacPro expansion connector) x16PCIe connector with a fanless design heatsink, can come with a few graphic options like Radeon X and Radeon Pro Vega options (and it can run TWO)
  • an Afterburner card with an ASIC that can run 6 billion pixels per second for video editing in ProRes and ProRes RAW codecs - 3 streams of 8k
  • starting at $5999 are you serious?
  • pro display XDR starts at $4999

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder

Last edited by Capella : 2019-06-03 at 13:48.
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Bryson
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2019-06-03, 13:30

Cheesegrater Squared!

I don't love those monitors, though.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-06-03, 13:32

I just don't know about this design.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-03, 14:20

The design is… interesting.

The price tag is exactly what I would have guessed, because otherwise, they might as well kill the iMac Pro.

It's not great that it starts out with a 256 GB SSD at that price, though.

But… this is Apple saying "ok guys, you keep saying you want the Mac Pro back, well here it is — deal with it".

Also, $999 for a monitor stand… did I really hear that part right?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-03, 14:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Also, $999 for a monitor stand… did I really hear that part right?
You did.

But, hey, the iMac G4 display mount finally came back. I'm super happy about that.

Just understand that the display is not $4999, but $5999. We were standing around taking bets that it would be $7000+, so it's a win for us!

Who let the creeper in?
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Bryson
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2019-06-03, 14:40

$999 for the stand is ludicrous, though. The most expensive third-party mounts are only in the $250 range. They should have priced the whole thing at $5999 and thrown the stand in.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-03, 14:51

Yep. I agree. It's weird, no doubt.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-06-03, 14:52

So if I order the monitor I just get... the screen? No less fancy stand to hold it upright? This sounds like a typically Apple fiasco that was obviously avoidable. Again.

So it goes.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-06-03, 14:54

I'm guessing they won't sell that many $1k stands. I mean, the first thing I do with my monitors is take them off the stands and put them on a VESA mount. Now I have to pay $200 from Apple for that little bit of aluminum. Then again, if I were willing to pay Apple $6000 for a monitor then I wouldn't care about another $200. Guess it is a good thing I don't need one of them.

I think what impresses me the most is the rack mount though. While they aren't calling it an Xserve, it still would blow them out of the water. I really love the concept of one of them but know that they are just priced way to far out of my range.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-03, 15:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Just understand that the display is not $4999, but $5999.
I believe it starts at $4999, then another grand if you want nano-whatevers, and another grand for the better stand?
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chucker
 
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2019-06-03, 15:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I think what impresses me the most is the rack mount though. While they aren't calling it an Xserve, it still would blow them out of the water. I really love the concept of one of them but know that they are just priced way to far out of my range.
Yup. After about an entire lost decade where dogma won over reason, you can finally, gasp, get rackmount Mac again.

(But it doesn't come cheap.)
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-03, 15:10

I think that where Apple sees the profit in this is through the VESA mount. I'm betting that most folks who are going to buy these things are mounting them on something other than a stand. The old method meant they had to manufacture the stand, which was then discarded. Now, they don't have to unless someone actually wants it.

Honestly not sure how I feel about it. I think a stand should have been included and the whole thing priced at $5999. Just get it done with. Then, offer the display without the stand and with the VESA mount for $5499. Would have created a lot less backlash.

I think there is a just a bit of nit-picking. If Apple announces the display for $7999, they get kudos for announcing a reference display for so cheap. But offer it for $4999 and then another $999 for the stand ($5999 total) and get kicked in the teeth. The specs on this thing are off the charts, and it is very clearly intended for a niche market. Reference displays are not cheap, so this is a bargain. We won't carry this thing in the store, but we will price it for customers, and we will price it with the stand. So, for us, it's $5999. That's a lot, and I'll bet my nickels we don't sell two of them before it is replaced.

But …

Apple does not make any consumer displays. There is no $999 thing that is good enough for the rest of us. As an Apple Premier Partner, we are not aloud to demo any display with Apple gear other than the LG Ultrafine things, which are too good, actually. So, not having an inexpensive Apple display means we can only demo a display that is too expensive for most people, and cannot demo the $300 4k things that we actually want to sell. They have to be "stuck in the back" somewhere.

The ProDisplay XDR at $5999 then seems a bit pompous.

Edit: Something else that just occurred to me: That display's holes are gonna fill up with spiders!

Edit 2: And more. The display mounts to the stand with a magnetic connector. No screws, nuts, bolts, or magic sauce. Just magnets.

Who let the creeper in?

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-06-03 at 15:29.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2019-06-03, 15:59


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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-06-03, 16:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
So if I order the monitor I just get... the screen? No less fancy stand to hold it upright? This sounds like a typically Apple fiasco that was obviously avoidable. Again.
I’m pretty sure I read on Twitter that there was indeed a less fancy stand in the box.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-03, 16:20

It might be that there is. That would settle the grumbling.

Maybe.

Edit: Just checked the Tech Specs page under "In the Box" and there is no mention of an included stand.

Who let the creeper in?
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chucker
 
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2019-06-03, 16:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
I’m pretty sure I read on Twitter that there was indeed a less fancy stand in the box.
https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/specs/ seems to suggest no stand is included.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-06-03, 18:24

I'm so glad they finally built what people wanted!!


...
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
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2019-06-03, 18:35

We've been talking about it, today, and have already decided not to put one on the floor. At $5999 + $5999 = $11998. Way too much financial investment to display a system that might sell 2 in a given product cycle. Considering the extremely short margins on Apple gear, this thing is a loser for small businesses like ourselves. It isn't going to sell other than to the 2 clients I have who will unleash 10 grand on the latest Mac Pro—not including display.

What we found with the trashcan model is that there were plenty of customers who wanted to slobber on it, but almost none that wanted to pay for it. That led us to remove the floor model, which meant that the 2 people in a given year who would buy one couldn't look at it, first. However, the people who were actually willing to pay didn't care as much about the look as they did about the performance, and they knew what it could do. I am certain this new thing will fall into that category. The folks who know what it is will buy sight unseen, as they always have. The droolers will go to the Apple Store.

The display is another matter. Even pros who know what they are after will want to sit down in front of one. Again, the price is so high and the margins so thin that I am guessing we will not sell more than 2 across the 3-year retail life of the display. In other words, since I will not walk into an Apple Store, I doubt if I'll ever see one in person.

Oh, well. They look good on the web, so there's that.

I think this might be the most niche product Apple has ever made. The PowerMac/MacPro have always represented the top-of-the line in computers, and inflation makes older models much more expensive, but a $6000 starting price puts this thing in the hands of only the elite. Fortunately, the 2019 27" iMac with 8-core i9 and Pro Vega GPU is powerful enough for 99% of pro needs, and comes in at half the cost—with a 5k Retina display included. Oh, and it comes with the stand, too! The iMac Pro is already behind, so the 2019 Mac Pro gets 1 out of every 100 Pro's looking for a solid workstation.

If Apple really wants these things to get some attention, they need to floor them for us. We're not going to put $12,000 into a demo that will never pay for itself.

Who let the creeper in?

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-06-03 at 18:48.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-03, 18:37

At Turtle:

Yeah, Jony Ive takes his inspiration from the bottom kitchen drawer!
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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2019-06-03, 19:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
What we found with the trashcan model is that there were plenty of customers who wanted to slobber on it, but almost none that wanted to pay for it. That led us to remove the floor model, which meant that the 2 people in a given year who would buy one couldn't look at it, first. However, the people who were actually willing to pay didn't care as much about the look as they did about the performance, and they knew what it could do.
To be fair, unless you're talking about something that's going to sit on the receptionists' desk(s) and contribute to visitors' first impression of your company, "not caring what it looks like" so that you can focus on performance is the correct stance IMNSHO.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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Matsu
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2019-06-04, 03:14

Hideous. First computer to ever make me feel trypophobic.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-06-04, 05:07

The Verge has taken a first swipe at pricing a spec'd out model and came up in the $30k+ range.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...imate-ballpark


...
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Bryson
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2019-06-04, 08:28

Actually, $45k once you get the graphics cards. And you can drive up to 6 monitors. So, $80k for "the works"

Actually, for the people who would actually need such a machine, that's not so bad, tbh. At work I deal with computer-based control systems and they can easily hit $100k for a high-end one, which this would undoubtedly be.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2019-06-04, 08:43

This Mac Pro really does move it clear out of the enthusiast category and into the truly professional/enterprise use area.

I might be able to get away with a mini, but will likely just keep building hackintosh systems so I can hit the middle ground on specs.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2019-06-04, 10:04

Mike Wuerthele over at AppleInsider has a very good editorial on the matter. I think he drives the point home.
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Kraetos
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2019-06-04, 13:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
$999 for the stand is ludicrous, though. The most expensive third-party mounts are only in the $250 range. They should have priced the whole thing at $5999 and thrown the stand in.
Bizarre choice to sell the stand separate from the monitor. Having four SKUs seems like it would have been the better call, at $5199 (gloss + VESA), $5999 (gloss + stand), $6199 (matte + VESA), and $6999 (matte + stand) respectively. "lol $1k monitor stand" seems to be dominating the narrative today, that can't be what Apple wanted out of this, and it was just a totally unforced error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
This Mac Pro really does move it clear out of the enthusiast category and into the truly professional/enterprise use area.
This makes the gap between the mini and the Pro even more glaring, too. I realize this refrain has been repeated for basically 20 years now, but a minitower Mac would just be sublime. The non-Pro iMac specs in a tower with a price tag ranging from $1,000 to $4,000 could certainly find a market.

Never gonna happen, though. 😕

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
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2019-06-04, 13:29

The article really does do a great job explaining the machine.

I didn't realize I was looking for an "xMac". I never had a name for it, just more of an enthusiast tower. I don't blame Apple for not getting into that market either, though it would be nice.

What I would love is to buy that new Mac Pro rack chassis and put a hackintosh in it! I somehow don't expect that I'll be able to get the chassis without waiting for one heading to the dump though.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Frank777
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2019-06-04, 13:55

I think the new Pro is simply a Ferrari-like swag item that Apple will bestow on people that they want for AppleTV+.

But it is a cool system. I'd love to see a cheaper one with an i9 processor, but I know it won't happen.

The display would seem to be overkill for any MacBook Pro user outside the movie industry.
And I doubt a Mac Mini could even drive that 6k display. RIght?
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kscherer
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2019-06-04, 14:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I think the new Pro is simply a Ferrari-like swag item that Apple will bestow on people that they want for AppleTV+.

But it is a cool system. I'd love to see a cheaper one with an i9 processor, but I know it won't happen.

The display would seem to be overkill for any MacBook Pro user outside the movie industry.
And I doubt a Mac Mini could even drive that 6k display. RIght?
4 things:

1) I disagree with your first statement. Although that could happen, there are editing studios that pay $30,000+ for editing rigs. The new Mac Pro is intended for them. And, yes, I bet Apple is looking directly at Apple TV+ as the primary proving ground.

2) We all would. And there is a market, just not one that Apple wants to compete in. Why? No clue, but from a sales standpoint, I really wish they would. We could sell hundreds of $2000 8-core i9-powered towers.

3) The ProDisplay XDR is a very inexpensive Reference Monitor, not a "display" as we think of them. I did a quick Google, and the cheapest competitor I could find was a 4k thing at $5000. For the most part, they range from $15,000 to $40,000! So, this display with the optional stand at $6000 is one helluva great value!

4) Wrong! Apple specifically stated that the ProDisplay XDR will work with any TB3-equipped Mac.

Who let the creeper in?
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spotcatbug
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2019-06-04, 16:22

I just can't not post this: $4999 + $999 = $5998
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