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The New Mac Pro
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chucker
 
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2019-06-04, 16:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
2) We all would. And there is a market, just not one that Apple wants to compete in. Why? No clue,
Because there’s no money in it. People have moved on to tablets and laptops. The few on a desktop tower at all have use cases like high-end gaming (not interesting for Apple software-wise, and they want custom rigs anyway) or high-end AV, which Apple is hereby offering. There’s not much below between that that a laptop isn’t also powerful enough for.
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Dr. Bobsky
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2019-06-04, 17:00

To whit: if I want a desktop, I will build a simulation/gaming rig...
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kscherer
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2019-06-04, 17:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
I just can't not post this: $4999 + $999 = $5998
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Luca
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2019-06-05, 08:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky View Post
To whit: if I want a desktop, I will build a simulation/gaming rig...
Yeah, if you don't immediately know whether you'll need one of these new Mac Pros, then you don't.
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Frank777
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2019-06-05, 08:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
1) I disagree with your first statement. Although that could happen, there are editing studios that pay $30,000+ for editing rigs. The new Mac Pro is intended for them. And, yes, I bet Apple is looking directly at Apple TV+ as the primary proving ground.
I don't doubt that its core customer base is there, I just think the whole reason the new Pro exists is to provide a "halo effect" for the TV project.
That is, if there was no Apple TV+ coming, the new Pro wouldn't be anything like this.

A core customer of previous Mac Pro/Power Mac segment has been print shops, and Apple is still perfectly content to tell them to buy iMacs.
(The iMac probably has the horsepower they need, but they do like bigger pivoting displays and lots of internal/upgradable storage.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
2) We all would. And there is a market, just not one that Apple wants to compete in. Why? No clue, but from a sales standpoint, I really wish they would. We could sell hundreds of $2000 8-core i9-powered towers.
This is the G4 Cube market segment that Apple dabbled with, and the original "we innovated ourselves into a thermal problem" before the Trash Can.

They filled it with the iMac Pro instead of a tower. Apple has a phobia about mid-range towers, I'm not sure why.

When I had a Power Mac, I upgraded it semi-regularly. Then Apple forced me into a 2009 27" iMac, and I knew it would have little upgradability, so I bought specs I thought were somewhat future-proof. I haven't upgraded my main machine now in ten years (this fall...) How is that better for Apple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
3) The ProDisplay XDR is a very inexpensive Reference Monitor, not a "display" as we think of them. I did a quick Google, and the cheapest competitor I could find was a 4k thing at $5000. For the most part, they range from $15,000 to $40,000! So, this display with the optional stand at $6000 is one helluva great value!
Yeah, like I said, it's a product built for the movie industry. I don't think I've ever seen Apple target a niche industry this specifically before.

The question is, will a 'regular' 32" display come for MacBook Pro customers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
4) Wrong! Apple specifically stated that the ProDisplay XDR will work with any TB3-equipped Mac.
I'm genuinely surprised the Mac Mini can drive that monster of a monitor. Maybe for my upgrade this fall, I should look at a Mini instead of the iMac.
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simas
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2019-06-05, 09:36

haha apple users should prepare their wallets
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kscherer
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2019-06-05, 09:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by simas View Post
haha apple users should prepare their wallets
Hmmmmm …



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I'm genuinely surprised the Mac Mini can drive that monster of a monitor. Maybe for my upgrade this fall, I should look at a Mini instead of the iMac.
Well, it can drive one 5k and one 4k simultaneously, so my guess is that if the ProDisplay is in use, that will be the Mini's max. And, no, I cannot give you one single reason why anyone in their right mind would buy a $6000 display for a Mac Mini.

I'm thinking … I'm thiiiiinking …

Nope. Not one.

Who let the creeper in?
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Frank777
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2019-06-05, 10:00

Also, has anyone verified how the 'pivot' function is implemented?

Is this something new in MacOS that display makers can easily/cheaply implement in their products, or is it baked into the monitor?
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kscherer
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2019-06-05, 10:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Also, has anyone verified how the 'pivot' function is implemented?

Is this something new in MacOS that display makers can easily/cheaply implement in their products, or is it baked into the monitor?
Rotation is built into Mac OS, and has been for some time. Just go to System Preferences/Displays and look for the Rotation dropdown. Although my guess is that the ProDisplay has a built-in sensor that will make the adjustment automatically. It's a very Apple-y thing to do.

Warning: Be careful clicking that button unless you actually rotate the display. Mouse control will be, umm, off—just a touch!

Who let the creeper in?
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Frank777
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2019-06-05, 10:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Rotation is built into Mac OS, and has been for some time. Just go to System Preferences/Displays and look for the Rotation dropdown. Although my guess is that the ProDisplay has a built-in sensor that will make the adjustment automatically. It's a very Apple-y thing to do.

Warning: Be careful clicking that button unless you actually rotate the display. Mouse control will be, umm, off—just a touch!
I don't see a button in my System Preferences/Displays. I presume you have to have a rotating monitor for it to appear.

If this is built-in now, why the lack of rotating monitors for Mac? (This is a problem, as I've now talked myself into wanting one...)

I don't recall seeing rotating displays for the Mac being heavily promoted since the days of Radius Displays in the 90's.
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709
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2019-06-05, 10:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I don't see a button in my System Preferences/Displays.
It won't show up on your iMac display, but if you have a second monitor attached it will show up for that one.
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Frank777
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2019-06-05, 10:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
It won't show up on your iMac display, but if you have a second monitor attached it will show up for that one.
Makes sense. Thanks.
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Frank777
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2019-06-05, 11:02

Where do I sign the petition asking Apple to throw away the iMac Pro, and introduce a Cheese Grater option at that price point?

I'm surprised no one has done this yet.
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kscherer
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2019-06-05, 11:10

Hey, there's an idea. You create the partition and we'll post it here at AN. Edit: Never mind. I did it.

I'll make it a sticky thread.

Who let the creeper in?

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-06-05 at 12:00.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-05, 11:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I don't doubt that its core customer base is there, I just think the whole reason the new Pro exists is to provide a "halo effect" for the TV project.
That is, if there was no Apple TV+ coming, the new Pro wouldn't be anything like this.
What would it be like?

It seems fairly simple to me. Mac users have been complaining for years that there has been no highly-customizable Mac, no rack-mount Mac, no high-end Mac.

Well now there is.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-05, 11:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I don't see a button in my System Preferences/Displays. I presume you have to have a rotating monitor for it to appear.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
If this is built-in now, why the lack of rotating monitors for Mac? (This is a problem, as I've now talked myself into wanting one...)
Well, for one, it's kind of a niche market.

And second, just get a VESA mount that allows rotation.
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turtle
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2019-06-05, 15:24

macOS has been able to do portrait orientation for a long time. I used to use a Mac full time for my job and had one in portrait for code/CLI. That was back in 2012. Any monitor on the right stand is a rotating monitor.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Frank777
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2019-06-06, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Any monitor on the right stand is a rotating monitor.
Except an iMac.

I've been thinking rotation would be a terrific feature for iMacs, but given the cooling requirements it would likely never work.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-07, 04:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Except an iMac.

I've been thinking rotation would be a terrific feature for iMacs, but given the cooling requirements it would likely never work.
I mean, they did manage to make the 2013-era Mac Pro rotatable.

Once they move the iMacs towards an iMac Pro-like design where there are even fewer moving parts, that sounds feasible.

OTOH, if you really want that, again, you can just configure the iMac with a VESA mount and get one of those rotating mounts. It's… fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Frank777
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2019-06-07, 08:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Once they move the iMacs towards an iMac Pro-like design where there are even fewer moving parts, that sounds feasible.
Please don't give them any ideas. I like being able to upgrade RAM myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
OTOH, if you really want that, again, you can just configure the iMac with a VESA mount and get one of those rotating mounts. It's… fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What I was saying is that an iMac airflow is built to draw in at the bottom grill and release through the top.
The machine is so thin now, would that kind cooling even work with the machine on its side?
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turtle
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2019-06-07, 14:12

If it's forced air then it should work just fine on its side. Upside-down might be more of a cooling challenge, but forced air flow can handle odd angles normally.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-07, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Please don't give them any ideas. I like being able to upgrade RAM myself.
Matter of time. 'sides, they want the Mac Pro's RAM slots to be a differentiator. Want those? Six thousand bucks. Sweet money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
What I was saying is that an iMac airflow is built to draw in at the bottom grill and release through the top.
The machine is so thin now, would that kind cooling even work with the machine on its side?
Ah, interesting. I didn't really think that much about how the airflow is designed. Apple likes to do that airflow CGI stuff these days, but I mostly look at that and think "looks cool… could make for a nice wallpaper", not "oh, so that's how they engineered the airflow".

At some point, they'll want to do a redesign of the iMac. As far as I'm concerned, the past almost-fifteen years (yikes) have really been refinements of the iMac G5 design. Big screen, chin, flat side, ports on the back. (Every time I use an iMac — I don't have one myself, nor do we have one in the office, but some customers and friends have one — , I'm baffled how you can deal with the port situation. At least get something weird like the Satechi Clamp.) Yeah, it moved to aluminum, and got thinner, and all that. But… come on. It's really the G5.

Just look at how vastly different the G3 and G4 designs were! I'm guessing Ive thinks of this design as the logical ultimate AIO design, with the "a design is done when there's nothing left to remove" mantra. Great. Time to add some stuff back.

Such as, maybe, a pivot screen!
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kscherer
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2019-06-07, 23:21

You know, it just occurred to me that, since the new Mac Pro can handle six ProDisplay XDR things, that you could have them all lined up and rotate every other one!



Would that be weird?

Who let the creeper in?
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chucker
 
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2019-06-08, 05:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
You know, it just occurred to me that, since the new Mac Pro can handle six ProDisplay XDR things, that you could have them all lined up and rotate every other one!



Would that be weird?
Apple Hexagon Display. Only $39,999.
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Frank777
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2019-08-05, 12:03

The mainstream 5K Display for Macs is now available.

That means sometime in early to mid-2020, Apple can intro a version of the Mac Pro that caters to traditional (non-Hollywood) Pro customers.
And we'll finally be all set.

The only problem is that the LG monitor doesn't seem to have built-in rotation. And you guys have now sold me on that feature.
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kscherer
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2019-08-05, 12:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
The mainstream 5K Display for Macs is now available.
Yeah, no one seems to want to buy that thing. If you put it next to a 27" iMac, it is super easy to tell the difference. The iMac's display is way brighter and just plain looks nicer. If that thing was $799, it would be different. But nearly the price of a 27" iMac for a lower quality display?

Hell, just buy a 21" iMac 4k and be done with it.

Who let the creeper in?
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709
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2019-08-05, 12:16

Seriously. I was cleaning my office last week and looked at my two VESA mounted side monitors and said "Eh". I turned one of them 90° and it's actually pretty nice. Never would've considered it if not for that thread. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So it goes.
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Robo
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2019-08-05, 15:56

The thing I can’t get over with the new Mac Pro isn’t so much the price, but that the base config is just terrible. Less storage than the iMac Pro, which is a grand cheaper and includes a display — there should really be no spec on the Mac Pro that’s inferior to the iMac Pro, given the pricing. And the base GPU is just cheap. You can get it on the iMac. Not the iMac Pro, the regular iMac. For half the price. With a display.

I’m okay with Apple taking the Mac Pro into super high-end pricing territory if that’s where they thing the tower workstation market is…as long as they give it the specs to match. But the base specs don’t. It seems more like Apple is basically taking the tower they would have sold profitably at $3K in the past and now they’re charging $6K for it, because they think they can.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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chucker
 
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2019-08-05, 17:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
The thing I can’t get over with the new Mac Pro isn’t so much the price, but that the base config is just terrible. Less storage than the iMac Pro, which is a grand cheaper and includes a display — there should really be no spec on the Mac Pro that’s inferior to the iMac Pro, given the pricing. And the base GPU is just cheap. You can get it on the iMac. Not the iMac Pro, the regular iMac. For half the price. With a display.

I’m okay with Apple taking the Mac Pro into super high-end pricing territory if that’s where they thing the tower workstation market is…as long as they give it the specs to match. But the base specs don’t. It seems more like Apple is basically taking the tower they would have sold profitably at $3K in the past and now they’re charging $6K for it, because they think they can.
You’re not wrong, but keep in mind you can upgrade basically all of that aftermarket (unlike virtually any other Mac now). Getting the base config may actually be the smart buy.
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chucker
 
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2019-08-05, 17:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Yeah, no one seems to want to buy that thing. If you put it next to a 27" iMac, it is super easy to tell the difference. The iMac's display is way brighter and just plain looks nicer. If that thing was $799, it would be different. But nearly the price of a 27" iMac for a lower quality display?

Hell, just buy a 21" iMac 4k and be done with it.
I just want a $399 Retina 21-inch display (even that’s a bit pricey for a screen). Instead, I can’t buy one at any price at all.
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