[Moogs]

Originally Posted by NYT The death toll in Angola from an epidemic caused by an Ebola-like virus rose to 174 Friday as aid workers in one northern provincial town reported that terrified people had attacked them and that a number of health workers had fled out of fear of catching the disease. International health officials said the epidemic, already the largest outbreak of Marburg virus ever recorded, showed no signs of abating. Seven of Angola's 18 provinces have now reported suspected cases and several neighboring countries have announced health alerts. "It's becoming a huge problem," said Dick Thompson, a spokesman for the World Health Organization, which has dispatched surveillance teams to the country's northern provinces. "We clearly don't know the dimensions of the outbreak." Health officials said some Angolans are hiding sick relatives out of fear that they will die if taken to the hospitals, thereby increasing the chance the disease will spread. There is no cure or vaccine for the highly contagious virus. Victims suffer a high fever, diarrhea, vomiting and severe bleeding from bodily orifices and usually die within a week.

If ever there was a case for westerners finding a way (money or brainpower or whatever) to bring basic sanitation to African hospitals, schools, etc... this is it. People are dying horrible deaths because they're living in countries where the hospitals use 18th century cleaning techniques.

Scary stuff.

[Ebby]

The book "Th Hot Zone" has the longest single paragraph I know of covering almost 3 whole pages. It is burned into my mind because it goes into graphic detail of the effects of Ebola, although I won't vouch for its accuracy. Needless to say, that is not one of my vacation spots.

[Naderfan]

It's been a long time since I read the Hot Zone, but from what I remember, it's pretty accurate. A good friend of my family is a reporter for the Washington Post who covered an Ebola outbreak in Uganda. He said it was one of the worst things he's ever had to report and he wasn't even in the actual village (I wouldn't even want to be in the same country). I don't think it's possible to exaggerate how bad these viruses are.

What if we catch the disease here?

[onlyafterdark]

It would be quarantined. Look at what happened with SARS a while ago. There are specific things in place to make sure that such an "outbreak" does not spread throughout the country.

[.Hack]

Originally Posted by macgeek2004 What if we catch the disease here?

Could it happen? Yes, but the chances are VERY, VERY slim. There's most likely no way out of the country and no one is allowed to enter the areas where the virus has spread. So in a sense, the virus has been quarantined, but not in the way we'd all like it. The way things are going now, the virus is just spreading around the whole country and it's outlying areas. Again, there's not much of a chance that this will spread to western countries. Even if it did, we'd know about it before it came to North America.

[billybobsky]

They don't spread that easily... ie, you have to be in contact with largish quantities of bodily fluids to get infected...

What we should be worried about is the endemic hemorrhagic fevers that exist in the us rodent population... One rodent plague, and these viruses easily find their way into our respiratory pathways...

I disagree that the "west" should provide aid the way Moogs suggest -- the forced westernization of a lot of countries has produced far more social ills in the end, than would have occurred had the process moved more naturally... So either we devote resources towards getting the nations in these regions to acquire western lifestyles completely (and thus kill much of the indigenous culture) or we provide services which reduce the pains of growing and developing... Given that we have failed to do the former time and time again, we need to focus on ways to aid in self propelled development...

[Naderfan]

It would be difficult for someone to transport a disease like that very far. The rapidness with which this disease incapcitates and kills also works against it. And since it usually wipes out the entire village, you usually don't have to worry about carriers. but it's still scary to think that it could happen.

[Moogs]

I thought pathogens like Ebola and this new variant were highly contagious (i.e. someone sneezes on you, you're screwed). Not so? Billbob: I don't mean "Westernize" the country. I mean teach these people something as simple as how to disinfect a hospital bed or medicine cabinet or OR. Forget culture. Just teach them how to clean and what to clean with (and what NOT to clean with).

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by Moogs I thought pathogens like Ebola and this new variant were highly contagious (i.e. someone sneezes on you, you're screwed). Not so? Billbob: I don't mean "Westernize" the country. I mean teach these people something as simple as how to disinfect a hospital bed or medicine cabinet or OR. Forget culture. Just teach them how to clean and what to clean with (and what NOT to clean with).

Ebola requires blood contact more or less... That is, it isn't transmitted by aerosols that would normally be ejected by sneezing...

[Luca]

Yeah. That movie "Outbreak" entertained the possibility of Ebola becoming airborne and making it to the US, but that's not an accurate representation of it.

[onlyafterdark]

The major problem here is if major world powers send help to aid the country in its time of need. These are the people that would be likely candidates to bring the virus back to north america or other parts of the world.

But again, thats a big if.

[ast3r3x]

Outbreak terrifies me, but at least knowing that it would be quarantined, even if it did mean the death of a town/city. They'd be dead anyways.

Anyways, scary stuff no matter what it is. This stuff used as a weapon is my biggest worry. I just wish there was a way to disarm everyone of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons, no good can come out of having them.

[onlyafterdark]

Its a lot harder to use viruses and such as weapons than most people think. There have been many attempts around the world in which plans to use biological weapons failed because the people who were trying to use them didnt know what they were doing. Biology is a very delicate science.

Dont take me wrong, it is a threat. But it has been blown out of proportion by the media over the last few years.

[Brad]

Afraid of stuff like the movie Outbreak and biological weapon stuff? You should check out Eyeballing the Plum Island Animal Disease Center. Fun stuff the US government is doing up there!

Located just two miles off the tip of Long Island and six miles from the Connecticut coastline, Plum Island is home to a Bio-Safety Level 4 (BSL-4) research facility. The only comparable government facilities in the country are the United States Army laboratory at Fort Detrick, MD, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Plum Island is specifically engaged in the study of zoonotic diseases. Zoonotic diseases are diseases that can be transmitted from animals to humans, like West Nile, like Lyme disease. Like Ebola. [...] The diseases being researched do not live exclusively under glass—there are quite a number of infected live animals for study there. Some of these diseases have an incubation period extending for days. Which means that it is entirely possible for a researcher to be unknowingly infected on a Friday and then spend the weekend cheerfully spreading some hideous plague from the Hamptons to Tribeca. [...] They further maintain that there has never been a leak to the mainland. Apparently the first appearance of what we now call Lyme disease a mere 13 miles northeast of the facility falls under the category of coincidence, as does the mysterious and still unexplained appearance of West Nile virus in Long Island and New York City.

Mmm. Sweet dreams tonight, guys.

[Moogs]

Great....

[onlyafterdark]

Ah, what a load of crap. If it is a level 4 lab and they were working with this stuff, they wouldn't be doing it while exposing themselves to the infected animal. Its just plain common sense.

They have special suits that they wear for such things (they are even shown in the movies from time to time) and they require a 30min decontamination before the suit can be removed. Just another example of how the whole bioterrorism thing has been blow way out of proportion.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by Brad Afraid of stuff like the movie Outbreak and biological weapon stuff? You should check out Eyeballing the Plum Island Animal Disease Center. Fun stuff the US government is doing up there! Mmm. Sweet dreams tonight, guys.

Yea, around here (CT) we call it Anthrax Island.

[ast3r3x]

What is really scary? The first 7 minutes or so of The Stand.

[ast3r3x]

Oh by the way, here is the first 7 minutes. Yu can skip to around the center though if you really want.

Stephen King, so you know it's good

[ironlung]

Viruses are not living things so cant really be killed. Letting a virus just kill a village is not smart. This virus has a lipoprotein coat so cant survive in an environment without water. However it can get into the water table and spread through there. Even the most advanced water filtering systems do not get rid of viruses because they are so small and essentially non living. I dont know much abt ebola and marburg but they can also inculcate their own DNA into bacteria, and transfer some virulent behavior. So letting such a dangerous virus take its own course is not smart. Especially since scientists still are not sure how theyre transmitted initially.

[Ebby]

Originally Posted by fightclub Even the most advanced water filtering systems do not get rid of viruses because they are so small and essentially non living.

Last I heard, you could eliminate the virus from water using a specific frequency of UV light. It breaks the bonds of the DNA and renders it harmless. It also works with small bacteria, but not larger bacteria which can block the light.

[onlyafterdark]

There is also this new technology called fire. It works for the most part when it comes to killing viruses, but some of them are pesky little buggers.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by ast3r3x Stephen King, so you know it's good

You never saw Dream Catcher, apparently... or any number of other more recent hackish attemps. Stephen King's days of great writing are long gone, IMHO.

[ironlung]

Originally Posted by Ebby Last I heard, you could eliminate the virus from water using a specific frequency of UV light. It breaks the bonds of the DNA and renders it harmless. It also works with small bacteria, but not larger bacteria which can block the light.

Yes I have heard that too, and it is more used with a protozoan Cryptosporidium parvum, which is a pain in the ass to get rid of. Viruses are far more resilient than any other life form. They can take a lot of mutations and still exist because they arent alive. Ebola virus is a RNA based virus. True there isnt much different between RNA and DNA, however RNA based viruses can take a lot more mutations. Typically in RNA based replication mutations happen regularly anyway.

Ill give you an example. Polio virus vaccine for 10% of the time doesnt work. Thats because the 'mutated' viruses in the vaccine back mutate and form viable viruses. So people who pbbly would never have had polio can end up getting it!

[Kickaha]

Er... and yet the number of polio cases worldwide in the past few years has been dropping quickly towards zero (>350,000 in 1988, 1919 in 2002). Since >500 million children were immunized, your 10% estimate would cause 50 million new cases. I think that number may be a wee off...

Is it *possible*? Yup. Is it *probable*? Nope.

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by fightclub Viruses are not living things so cant really be killed. Letting a virus just kill a village is not smart. This virus has a lipoprotein coat so cant survive in an environment without water. However it can get into the water table and spread through there. Even the most advanced water filtering systems do not get rid of viruses because they are so small and essentially non living. I dont know much abt ebola and marburg but they can also inculcate their own DNA into bacteria, and transfer some virulent behavior. So letting such a dangerous virus take its own course is not smart. Especially since scientists still are not sure how theyre transmitted initially.

Bullshit. There are water filtering techniques that will remove viron sized particles.

And given that most proteins denature by the boiling point of water, you can distill the water -- or even just boil it to sterilize...

What a load of crap...

[Moogs]

What do you guys mean when you say a virus "isn't alive" so it can't be killed. If it's not a life form, how does it mutate, replicate, etc?

[Brad]

Fire replicates and "mutates" and consumes too, but is it alive?

Whether a virus is a life form or not has been debated forever. The current consensus is that it is not alive in the traditional sense.

[billybobsky]

Actually, life isn't special. Viruses sit in that not so wonderful leap from chemistry to life, but in the end it is all the same...