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Holy crap, what is this movie?


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Holy crap, what is this movie?
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matthewkane
 
 
2006-07-29, 00:56

Whoa, okay, I stumbled upon something weird.

I downloaded the movie John Tucker Must Die, and I opened up the AVI file, and instead of John Tucker Must Die, there is a movie about 9/11. It starts out saying "Dedicated to the lives we lost on September 11, 2001". Then theres this narrator who takes you quickly through the years from 1984, and basically proves that the entire thing was a setup of the united states government. He even proves that it wasn't the actual airlines that hit the buildings, because of the way the exploded and the way there was no debris left from the planes or something. It just freaked me out.

I've only watched the first 20 minutes of it, and there were some credits at the beginning, but it never got to the name of the movie.

I hope from the description, you'll be able to help me find out what exactly it is. He also mentions how the stock rates on Boeing and American Airlines went up by 10 times the day before september 11, and that security workers from the white house told all their friends to not fly on the morning of september 11. Creepy.

Anyway, what is this???
 
Windowsrookie
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2006-07-29, 01:04

Illegally downloading movies is not cool. Especially crappy ones.
 
Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-07-29, 01:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
Anyway, what is this???
A hoax?
 
matthewkane
 
 
2006-07-29, 01:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
A hoax?
What??? It makes perfect sense though! He proves everything!
 
Brad
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2006-07-29, 01:26

Perfect timing.

Maddox says There is no 9/11 conspiracy, you morons.
 
Kickaha
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2006-07-29, 01:26

Really.

Find me proof that Boeing's stock shot up 1000% on Sep 10, 2001. That should be an easy one to prove, right?
 
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2006-07-29, 01:28

But still, d/l'ing illegally isn't cool....
 
matthewkane
 
 
2006-07-29, 01:36

I can't believe that video is fake. Yeah, maddox's page looks nice, but what if he's wrong? I just got his book by the way, it's hilarious. But anyway, I still think the video is real.
 
Kickaha
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2006-07-29, 01:37

Why?

Read this rebuttal. I can't find any problems with it. If that really is the transcript of _Loose Change_, then the guy is seriously a moron.
 
Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2006-07-29, 01:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
I can't believe that video is fake. Yeah, maddox's page looks nice, but what if he's wrong? I just got his book by the way, it's hilarious. But anyway, I still think the video is real.
What was that saying that is often (incorrectly) credited to P.T. Barnum?
 
Brave Ulysses
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2006-07-29, 02:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
I can't believe that video is fake. Yeah, maddox's page looks nice, but what if he's wrong? I just got his book by the way, it's hilarious. But anyway, I still think the video is real.

You have to be truly ignorant to believe everything in that movie.

That isn't a personal attack, just my opinion. Anytime this topic and movie comes up it deeply offends me and it angers me that people can be so accepting of a ridiculous claim but so critical of common sense
 
hiltond
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2006-07-29, 05:28

Sir, with all due respect either you misinterpret what you viewed or someone made a really bad movie. I couldn’t say as I no longer watch movies about 9/11. My blood-pressure and all. As such, let me just address some things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
…basically proves that the entire thing was a setup of the united states government.
Really. A setup by The Federal Government of the United States. Which arm, Fish and Game? Show me a branch that could do this, keep itself quiet, as well get the following groups to go along with the story:

NYPD,
NYFD,
Washington DC police,
Police of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,
The Governors from 2001 on of CT, MA, CA, NY, NJ, PA,
The mayors of New York, Elizabeth, Newark, Boston, Washington DC,
The Freeholders and Sheriff of Somerset County, PA,
Cantor Fitzgerald et al tenants of the WTC,
The people on street level who saw the second plane,
Silverstein Properties,
The clean-up contractors,
Etc, etc until the pigs fly the cows home.

Many of these groups don’t like each other. All lost a lot that day. Why would they not object publicly to the official account of it wasn’t adding up. That’s a lot of people to keep quiet. If you were a member of the clean-up crew and your brother was Port Authority Police who died and you thought for even a second something was up, wouldn’t you stand in Astor Place and scream at the top of your lungs everyday? Where is that guy? He isn’t in Astor Place, Times Square, City Hall or the Battery.

Quote:
He even proves that it wasn't the actual airlines that hit the buildings, because of the way the exploded and the way there was no debris left from the planes or something. It just freaked me out.
Someone I’ve know all my life says he saw the second plane. That is enough for me. He is my best friend since kindergarten after all. That probably isn’t enough for you. You don’t know his character. That is reasonable.

What you may not know is that for quiet a while this was being reported in the New York media as a possible accident. I know a few people who worked in Lower Manhattan and most of them were listening to Z100, as was I. We all thought that a plane had veered of course and struck the tower. Why not, people on the radio mentioned a plane that had hit the Empire State Building. People were not panicking and fleeing the city at that point. They tried later but train service was down and the tunnels were closed.

The WTC was tall. Really rather tall. The North and South Towers were the tallest things around for many miles. More then one person had the misfortune of seeing the second plane hit. They were looking up. I might be looking up at the site if I was on the street too. It is where all of the action was.

Did the government tell all of them to say that?

I find the videotape very compelling.

Debris? http://www.zombietime.com/wtc_9-13-2001/

What a big mess. You know I can’t find any file cabinets or Rodan sculptures in those pictures. I guess I should go find the foreman who cleaned up this site and find out if he has seen any. I wonder if this video has similar people who say no plane parts were anywhere to be found. Similar as in in-charge of the site, not some guy who forgot the tin foil lining to his hard hat. I doubt it. I further wonder what dropping 110 stories on a sculpture, file cabinet or melted plane would do to its recognizability.




Quote:
He also mentions how the stock rates on Boeing and American Airlines went up by 10 times the day before september 11,
September 11, 2001 had deleterious effects on the travel and airline industry. Why would people buy enough shares of these companies to drive the price up that high right before the bottom was going to fall out? Prices of stocks don’t rise magically. At any given time somebody owns those shares. Individual, market maker (kinda), or organization.

A stock is opened at a price for the start of a day by a person called a market maker. This person may say that they are going to sell AAPL at 65.98 and it opens. Who owns what at this point depends on how the stock closed the day before. Now a person may say that they will sell 1000 shares of AAPL at 66.07. When all of the market makers shares are gone these shares come into play. Then the next highest ask is bought. The system is very large and complex, but this gives you an idea of how it works, a stock rises when all of the shares at a lower price level are purchased. For the stocks to rise that much, somebody would have to think the price was going to skyrocket and they would be able to sell at a higher price later. A person who knew what was to happen on 9/11 wouldn’t think that airlines and airplane makers were a good investment, unless he was retarded, high or crazy.

Just for the record on September 7th Boeing closed at 45.18. On the 10th 43.46. It dropped a lot on the day of trading before 9/11. On the first day of trading after September 11th, September 17th, 2001 it closed at 35.80. Opps, planes being used to destroy American cities is bad for Boeing.

The numbers for American using close and the same dates are: 30.15,
29.70 and get ready
18.00.
Wow.

Just so we are clear on the gaps, the 11th was a Tuesday so market data for Monday is available; the 7th was the Friday before that. The market is closed on Saturdays and Sundasy. The 17th was the first day of trading after 9/11. The markets were closed after 9/11 to keep a panic from happening.


Quote:
and that security workers from the white house told all their friends to not fly on the morning of september 11.
Really, they show people who claimed they were told not to fly by named government officials?

Quote:
Creepy.
The whole thing is creepy. Thousands of people died. That’s creepy.

Quote:
Anyway, what is this???
ummm, I’m going to refrain from taking a stance on this. IDK.

Do you really think the government could have pulled itself and all of these people together to kill Americans? Oh well I am late for my job at the Bureau of Propaganda. 

EDIT:

Oh yeah, its just a movie.
 
blakbyrd
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2006-07-29, 08:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
Whoa, okay, I stumbled upon something weird.

I downloaded the movie John Tucker Must Die, and I opened up the AVI file, and instead of John Tucker Must Die, there is a movie about 9/11. It starts out saying "Dedicated to the lives we lost on September 11, 2001". Then theres this narrator who takes you quickly through the years from 1984, and basically proves that the entire thing was a setup of the united states government. He even proves that it wasn't the actual airlines that hit the buildings, because of the way the exploded and the way there was no debris left from the planes or something. It just freaked me out.

I've only watched the first 20 minutes of it, and there were some credits at the beginning, but it never got to the name of the movie.

I hope from the description, you'll be able to help me find out what exactly it is. He also mentions how the stock rates on Boeing and American Airlines went up by 10 times the day before september 11, and that security workers from the white house told all their friends to not fly on the morning of september 11. Creepy.

Anyway, what is this???
When I first read this, it reminded me of Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11.
 
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
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2006-07-29, 09:48

I think that Maddox summed it up nicely.

"Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid."
 
initialsBB
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2006-07-29, 10:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewkane
I can't believe that video is fake.
no no, it's a real video... documentaries don't prove anything, they're not The Truth. no matter how serious a documentary is it is first and foremost a point of view, a sort of "construction of realty". the constructor being a director who has a specific idea he is trying to get accross.

it's up to you to decide what the truth is based upon what any media tells you, and this 'film form' you're talking about really pisses me off because they try and do exactly that...

it's not so different from Fox News after all.
 
eulersmethod
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2006-07-29, 21:00

my uncle gave me a copy of that loose change movie on cd, along with another one that shows the guys who made the movie arguing with people next to the rubble of the world trade center.

i did not like the movie and thought they did a horrible job at trying to prove their conspiracy theory. they reach out for random facts and some how tie them to whatever it is they think happened. i.e. there is a part in the movie where they claim that the plane that hit the pentagon was flown remotely, and according to them their strongest evidence of this is that for decades the US Military has been trying to developed remote controlled aircraft, and after showing some old footage of some airforce drone aircraft test, they make the claim that because of that, it is obvious that it was the US government that hit the pentagon.

99% of their "facts" are absurd. they also imply that the reason that the US Gov went through all that was just so they could come up with a reason to invade Iraq and gain greater control of the world, which is an idiotic claim, seeing how the war has not only inmensly decreased our credability with EVERYONE on the planet, but after we pull out we will have been left with a debt that our childrens childrens children will have to payoff.

if there is one action that future historians will point to as the cause of the fall of the American superpower, it will be the Iraq war.

but just because those dummies made up a bogus movie with bogus facts, doesnt mean we should ignore or forget the real fact that the united states has staged fake circumstances in order to create confilct in the world. The US has started wars intentionally to gain greater military and economic power, the Spanish-American war at the turn of the 19th century is the best example of it.
 
Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-07-29, 21:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by eulersmethod
if there is one action that future historians will point to as the cause of the fall of the American superpower, it will be the Iraq war.
We are no less of a superpower than we were during and after Vietnam.

I don't see our days of being a Superpower ending anytime soon. Iraq war or not.

But, everything else I agree with
 
Banana
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Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-07-29, 21:59

Erm, I believe we're no longer a superpower in same sense of the word back then; In that time, we had economic, military and political power. Nowadays, we just have the military and maybe political power, but not economic power any more.
 
Brave Ulysses
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2006-07-29, 22:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
Erm, I believe we're no longer a superpower in same sense of the word back then; In that time, we had economic, military and political power. Nowadays, we just have the military and maybe political power, but not economic power any more.
 
LiquidSpace
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2006-07-29, 22:48

yeah i think the loose change flick has many valid issues, prob not everything is true but im not one for happenstance..... it wouldn't be the first time our government did some shady shit.
 
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2006-07-29, 23:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by windowsrookie
Illegally downloading movies is not cool. Especially crappy ones.
What he said.

And I'm with initialBB on this. Documentaries are not truth. I can make a documentary that says that Apple sucks. Or Elvis lives. Or I'm the President of the United States. You get the idea.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
Argento
I puked at work.
Because I'm a pussy.
 
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2006-07-30, 11:55

Why the fuck were you downloading "John Tucker Must Die." Are you a chick?
 
murbot
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2006-07-30, 12:11

 
naren
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2006-07-30, 16:17

I think a great deal of the appeal of conspiracy theories like this one is in the comfort derived from the concept of an all seeing secret bureaucracy having the ability to manipulate the lives of millions. That such power could exist and and be wielded amongst us must seem more reassuring than the alternative; that we're governed by talentless hacks who have no real concept of what they are doing or the consequences of their actions.

The future is tomorrow!
 
BuonRotto
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2006-07-30, 16:25

We;ve talke dabout a lot of this stuff before. Anyone, including the original poster should do a search here (I assume it's working?) for such threads. I've contributed a few debunkings about how the structures fell in the old threads, and frankly I'm tired of repeating myself. So go fetch.

The whole problem with these conspiracy theories is that these folks run around saying "Don't believe anyone, not even the experts in their respective fields. Oh, but trust us! We know what we're talking about!" These guys find their own self-proclaimed experts who ar enot experts at all. I mean, the whole problem I have with these conspiracy theories, movies like Farenheit 9-11 and the Bush administration is they all have selective hearing and believe that the ends justify the means. They're ALL wrong.

Last edited by BuonRotto : 2006-07-30 at 16:38.
 
spikeh
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2006-07-30, 16:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiltond
Sir, with all due respect either you misinterpret what you viewed or someone made a really bad movie. I couldn’t say as I no longer watch movies about 9/11. My blood-pressure and all. As such, let me just address some things.



Really. A setup by The Federal Government of the United States. Which arm, Fish and Game? Show me a branch that could do this, keep itself quiet, as well get the following groups to go along with the story:

NYPD,
NYFD,
Washington DC police,
Police of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,
The Governors from 2001 on of CT, MA, CA, NY, NJ, PA,
The mayors of New York, Elizabeth, Newark, Boston, Washington DC,
The Freeholders and Sheriff of Somerset County, PA,
Cantor Fitzgerald et al tenants of the WTC,
The people on street level who saw the second plane,
Silverstein Properties,
The clean-up contractors,
Etc, etc until the pigs fly the cows home.
It's dumb to think that something like this couldn't be set-up if the Government wanted it to be. I'm not necessarily saying 9/11 was "team-killing" or anything, but your suggestion that any conspirator trying to set something like this up would need to go through the proper offices and channels and then need to get them working in unison without letting anyboy know is laughable.
 
Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-07-30, 19:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeh
It's dumb to think that something like this couldn't be set-up if the Government wanted it to be.
It's even dumber to think that a government capable of pulling something like that off couldn't wipe one measly crappy filmmaker and his 'expose' from the face of the planet, quietly.

For once, Maddox is right - the very fact that this guy is still breathing is proof that he's wrong.
 
Enki
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Join Date: Nov 2004
 
2006-07-30, 19:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeh
It's dumb to think that something like this couldn't be set-up if the Government wanted it to be. I'm not necessarily saying 9/11 was "team-killing" or anything, but your suggestion that any conspirator trying to set something like this up would need to go through the proper offices and channels and then need to get them working in unison without letting anyboy know is laughable.

Dude, you give the hacks in the "government" waaayyyy tooooo much credit. 80% are lifelong "don't bug me" bureaucrats that wouldn't be involved with a conspiracy because that would require effort. The other 20% spend 80% of their time trying to get the aforementioned 80% of the govt bureaucrats out of their way.

You have a few folks that can keep things secret, but that's because if they don't someone they know gets killed because of the slip-up. If someone isn't protecting an undercover buddy they are likely to dime out that secret in a heartbeat if it furthers their own political agenda. You see it on the news every night. All the 9/11 government conspiracy theories fail because they ignore these basic principles about government secret-keeping.
 
drewprops
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2006-07-30, 19:30

I think there's a formula out there that relates the security of a secret to the number of people privy to the knowledge.

I think it spikes at 2.

People can't keep secrets.
Conspiracies are as real as Bigfoot.

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
 
psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2006-07-30, 19:44

I keep all kinds of secrets. If you people knew the things I knew, your heads would asplode (here's a sample: Paris Hilton isn't real).



You HAVE the luxury of not knowing what I know. You NEED me on that wall...in places you don't ta...

Uh, sorry.

 
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