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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
Yesterday, 10:55

I agree with 709, so the Love or Hate Trump bullshit has been moved over to the Love or Hate Trump bullshit thread.



Regarding the euthanasia topic, I have no trouble allowing people to die when they are suffering, nor do I have any trouble aiding in their comfort. On this topic, I can speak from very personal experience. My son, Timathy, was born with cerebral palsy and had severe complications related to that. At 7 1/2, his body had worn itself out, and we allowed him to die. He stopped eating, he could no longer keep water down, and he simply died. The truth is —and with he aid of our hospice nurse — we administered some concoction that aided in his comfort so that he wasn't fighting a fight he didn't even understand. The concoction was a sedative that allowed his body to relax so that he could stop fighting. Without it, his pure instinct kept fighting against itself and he suffered. So, I get it — believe me!

But there is no way in hell I would have ever "euthanized" him. Not on your life!

Dying when your body is done and killing yourself because you don't want to fight any more are very different things. But, I will not stand in your suicidal way. If you don't want to carry on any longer, go ahead and off yourself. That's on you. What I will never get on board with, however, is granting permission to the government to start killing people they don't want around any longer, or handing death-pills to people who aren't thinking clearly. This line of Hitlerian thinking might start off with good intentions, but our social-media-addicted, violence-prone, asshole society is in no way prepared to be making those decisions for people, even if those people aren't able to make the decision for themselves.

There is no way this ends well. There will be golden estates that get inherited when mom is euthanized; there will be happy wives who get hubby's fortune when that drugged-up "jerk" was dumb enough to give his cheating wife the legal capacity to off him in his hospital bed; there will be governments that want/need to cut health-care spending; there will be parents with disabled children whose time-consuming needs get too tiring.

There is absolutely nothing anyone on these boards or IRL who can convince me that assisted suicide is a good thing. Ever.

But, if all y'all want to have a discussion about keeping suffering people comfortable, then I'm all ears.

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Last edited by kscherer : Yesterday at 11:19.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
Yesterday, 11:07

We may have a similar read of Trudeau actually. He didn't immediately strike me as a person of deeply held convictions so much as a product of generational tastes. He's quite attuned to the political desires of a certain generation, and tends to reflect what a majority of those around him believe at least in part because he's concerned with how they see him. In short, he reads the room well, but if I were in his shoes I would consider getting some new guests in "the room," not cabinet or caucus, but the metaphorical "room", the salon, the street corner, the office cooler, wherever one goes to listen to people describe their lives/ideas/worries, etc...

That said, I'm in no rush to hang him, nor should you be, until he has been thoughtfully compared to the alternatives. Generally, we hold our noses and vote for the least bad option, and whenever the next election comes, that might still be Mr. Trudeau.

Vehement opposition that tries to reduce every issue down to a problem with this leader or that one quickly tends to gloss over important details of the actual issue itself... as has been stated elsewhere, if the legislator wouldn't deal with it, the courts would. Have we got the best solution? Is there room to improve? Will we get there by playing a game of who sucks worst?

.........................................

Last edited by Matsu : Yesterday at 15:06.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
Yesterday, 14:52

No, we solve nothing by only voting for the one that is the better of x number of evils, which is how I’ve voted for the last 3-4 elections. It does not get us a better country for everyone, but for some reason or another political groups just kind of suck over all.

They are so worried about the next election that they get nothing done. Of course without that threat the parties would do all kinds of crazy stuff.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
Today, 06:49

In Canada the recent history of the euthanasia debate traces back to a 2016 Supreme court decision, and then a Quebec superior court decision a couple of years after that struck down the "foreseeable death" conditions to access. I'm not really sure why this also wasn't appealed to the Supreme Court, but I believe the government at least in part believed that the Supreme Court would rule similarly, and likely rationalized their move in part on some "freedom to legislate" argument (and a read of popular sentiment). I don't particularly buy the former line, it would have been interesting to see this legally tested... The Parliament acted and all but the Conservative party under the Peter O'Toole, supported legislation to expand access to medically assisted death. Interestingly though, Peter O'Toole is also quoted as saying that he would not re-open the question once decided, and you have to believe that in large part their opposition essential procedural, part of their role as the "Queen's Loyal Opposition." O'Toole is out, and the Conservative Party members most recent resolutions oppose Canada's euthanasia laws. However, the Conservative Party itself (the organization, not the rank and file citizenry who've paid a membership) has no formal position, nor has had one since.

I find ALL the parties tend to lack the courage of their convictions, including Canada's Conservatives. In his career, Harper fought like crazy to suppress his party's sentiments on same sex marriage and abortion, while giving them a wink and a nod behind closed doors, particularly in the early days of securing his leadership. To be clear, I'm not judging the value of their ideas here, I'm just taking a look at how they tend to edit their thoughts and beliefs to the political reality of the moment. Today, there is almost no doubt that Pierre Poilievre will be the next conservative leader. He spoke against Bill C-7, and has referenced the very case of Roger Foley mentioned earlier in thread.

He's out there selling an image of hard lined conservatism. He's got an interesting history of talking out of both sides of his mouth when it comes to abortion (just like Stephen Harper). Now he's spoken against C-7, even somewhat recently. Its most contentious sections come into force in 2023, but we'll see. His ilk has a penchant for courting opposition only to declare the matter settled if they sense it harms their popular appeal. So we'll see...

Last edited by Matsu : Today at 07:18.
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