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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
Send a message via AIM to RowdyScot Send a message via Skype™ to RowdyScot 
2011-01-27, 15:12

Looks like a fun project! When are you planning to start?
 
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-01-27, 16:46

So how does the spawning algorithm work? You need to be further than 24 but within 36? Is that a concern with this design at all?
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-27, 16:54

I am going to start tonight -- at the very least preping the ground so it is safe to make cobble runs at nigh etc. I have also realized that the ground is quite high where the trap is going -- the opening for the trap is a mere 8 blocks off of the surface at that position. So the ground needs to be lowered, a lot.

Anyway, I would be happy to take any help I an get. I have a vague game plan, backwards:

Last thing to be build is ceiling/roof, this will be made of Smooth Stone as it is the foundation of the sky ranch.

Second to last thing is adding water, from the opening, back towards the walls where egress routes will likely end up. Before this the torches will be removed, i am hoping for some good daylight for these two steps. I may pre-build scaffolding over the trap area to make it easier/safer to add the roof, but I haven't decided yet how to do this.

My plan is to attack the construction from the low point to the high, first with the channels and then with the internal walls/platforms. This should make it relatively painless. Anyone who wants to help will probably find it best to just grab a section and go. I have decided that a level by level plan doesn't help on something this large, and i think the design is repetitive and simple enough that it isn't entirely necessary.

But the first thing that needs to be done is lighting up the ground under the skyranch -- most of the area needing to be lit (which excludes my mob trab and Kraetos's mob trap) it is still uncovered so this should be straightforward. Also very important is clearing out any and all caves below the surface -- lighting them up prevents mobs from spawning down there and increases the likelihood they spawn in the collection chamber. And lastly, deforesting the remaining area under the ranch. There isn't much left, this should be easy.

If you are helping me, I assume that any resources found/harvested in newly lit/discovered caves, or gathered by deforesting, for instance, are yours. I think this is a fair trade for your assistance.

I might have enough coal to supply the torches needed for lighting, but i am not sure, it might be helpful if those that are helping can toss in a stack or two of coal...

Alright, I will see you all tonight... This is going to be epic.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-27, 16:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciej View Post
So how does the spawning algorithm work? You need to be further than 24 but within 36? Is that a concern with this design at all?
Further than 24 for spawning. Within 36 doesn't despawn. The despawning rate outside of 36-72 is dependent on what the mob is doing -- ie there is some definition for idle activity and the mob has a finite chance of despawning if it is idle.

This design is based upon a concept of one i saw on Youtube that is 1/4 of the size but works very well -- the guy's original plan was to build something this large, but he stopped at 1/4. My thought is that since this is communal it should be full sized. There are also advantages here in terms of resource efficiency compared to the other guy's trap.

If you hang out at my current trap, you can see how effective this type of design can be, and my current trap is only a little more than 1/2 the size of this one and not nearly as ideal in terms of stream design.
 
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2011-01-27, 17:08

My wife loves helping out so maybe I'll build a skyway to the Bridgeport flyover from the Stairs of Insanity so she can gather resources and run them while I'm at school and work.

While I'm around I'll help out too. I love the trap idea though I have concern about water flow and spring placement. If the spring is at a step down then there won't be a problem. If it's in the middle of a flow on the same level then it'll back flow the original spring.

If you're stepping down then you won't need another spring because the fall will start a new 7 block count for flow. I gotta run so I can't go into more detail but am looking forward to working with you on this one!

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-27, 17:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
My wife loves helping out so maybe I'll build a skyway to the Bridgeport flyover from the Stairs of Insanity so she can gather resources and run them while I'm at school and work.

While I'm around I'll help out too. I love the trap idea though I have concern about water flow and spring placement. If the spring is at a step down then there won't be a problem. If it's in the middle of a flow on the same level then it'll back flow the original spring.

If you're stepping down then you won't need another spring because the fall will start a new 7 block count for flow. I gotta run so I can't go into more detail but am looking forward to working with you on this one!
The springs are a step down.

I decided to not go with shorter rise/run of the springs both because it saves me a vertical block, water is infinitely available and, importantly, I tried to make a similar design to what you suggest in my cactus farm and it is a nightmare to manage the flows at the intersections. It ended up being faster and easier to build the way it's proposed here...

Now... there is another way: We could make this only 2 high by using signs to block the flows, but my experience tells me this is less efficient...
 
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-01-27, 17:29

I'll start on the deforestation right now (I could use more lumber for the skyway) and light as I go.
 
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-01-27, 21:59

Awesome. I was heading over to see if I could help when I got a chunk error, so logged out, back in and.....drowned in invisible water while the world was loading and I couldn't move or do anything.

Great. Betas.


Top tip: don't logout while you're in a boat, it turns out.


Guess I'll spend the next few hours rebuilding all my stuff instead of helping. Sorry guys.
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-01-27, 22:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Top tip: don't logout while you're in a boat, it turns out.
That's actually kind-of a widely known issue that's been around as long as boats have been in alpha/beta SMP. Boats in general are a world of pain in SMP (both on the user and manifesting in increased server load) and I've actually considered disabling them on our server until notch fixes/replaces them.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-28, 00:33

After some tests on a full model , i think the source block placement needs to be slightly adjusted.

I will upload an improved image...

Also: I had originally thought that the platforms between the sections of river should be one height. This was a bad idea. Still working out what they should look like, but my best guess is stepped.

709 also introduced the intriguing possibility of making the entire thing criss-crossed...
 
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-01-28, 00:59

Do you guys make a model of your buildings on graph paper before beginning? That reminds me of when we used to design sprites on graph paper back in the 80s... when I knew how to do sprites.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-01-28, 01:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Do you guys make a model of your buildings on graph paper before beginning?
I modeled both the White House and Money Bin on graph paper before laying a single block.
 
RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
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2011-01-28, 03:52

I modeled the bear flag on graph paper.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-28, 05:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Do you guys make a model of your buildings on graph paper before beginning? That reminds me of when we used to design sprites on graph paper back in the 80s... when I knew how to do sprites.


...
The image above was made in illustrator, which is my go to mockup platform for, well, everything. It does math, gives you exact pixel placement etc.

I also attempted to use a program called Minecraft Structure Planner that effectively produces a grid and allows you to paint on textures (from minecraft) on multiple levels. It was quite nice for one or two layers for small things, but for large things with multiple aligning layers it lacked a certain finesse and ease of use. I really could have used a transparency option for overlaying above and below layers, or even just an easy (quick) key stroke toggle.

Illustrator effectively gives me all of the above with a faster work flow -- especially for highly symmetric structures.

I mentioned the need for an improved water source design. After some experimentation after hours (I couldn't stay away), I realized the only way to handle the corners and not get into trouble was to use three source blocks at the corners with a notch inside to prevent the formation of a still water block:



And a detailed explanation of platform sizes/heights allowing for the inverted corner sources to be used without having a still block. This step design aspect prevents mobs from jumping out of the water onto a ledge by off-setting the stair step drop of the platform from the drop in the rivers. As before heights are indicated by grey scale:


Again, all comments/suggestions welcome and appreciated (as long as they are not snarky).
 
Elysium
Environmental Bloodhound
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of ice and snow
Send a message via AIM to Elysium  
2011-01-28, 08:19

E-W extension of the NE sky bridge is complete. The western terminus needs some structure work but is accessible and mob protected.

I'll start the N-S extension from the midpoint to the end of the existing sky bridge at Old Town Mob Trap II tonight.
 
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-01-28, 15:41

I spent a little time today placing torches for the underside so it'll glow from the bottom, and did some covering work. I think you guys will be surprised how much cobble the tops take. I went through 4 inventories and didn't even get 1/4 of the way done.

Looks fantastic though.

So it goes.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-28, 20:06

Server borked?

Protocol errors, end of stream, etc...
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-01-28, 20:13

I'll go kick it. Hang on...
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-28, 20:17

So many errors, so little time.
 
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-01-28, 20:17

The protocol error / end of stream was what I got yesterday during my boat problem.
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-01-28, 20:18

709, turtle, arteggio, and elysium were just online and seemed to be playing fine. I restarted the server and wrapper for good measure anyway.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-28, 20:29

I wonder... it might be because i am using the web browser version of the game at work...

Nope...

Response Code 503 from minecraft's server, whatever that means...

Hmm, perhaps too many attempts to login...
 
arteggio
There are some who call me… Timm?
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within
 
2011-01-28, 21:25

Before the restart I got the 503 and end of stream errors also. I think it took me a try or two after it restarted to get back in. And I think turtle got kicked off...
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-01-28, 22:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
Response Code 503 from minecraft's server, whatever that means...
HTTP 503 errors occur commonly when the minecraft.net login server is being overloaded.
 
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-01-29, 06:36

Excellent excellent work by all on the communal mob trap.

709 and I spent the rest of the early early morning lighting up the trap with red stone torches... An observatory will be added above the opening at some point. There is also a surprise to those who were the first to see the trap in operation, no hints, but it is glorious.

We left the access ladder to the trap intact in case anyone wants to do something inside... it will be removed before the trap is sealed shut.

Thanks again... That was really fun...

Oh, and 709 I left the remainder of the redstone torches in one of the chests...
 
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2011-01-29, 10:44

I snuck by there this morning and walked around the top of it and was impressed by the work. I only wish I could have been more help in it. Can't wait to see it in operations. There were baddies on it when I stopped by today too. I'm sure it's going to work very well.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
 
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-01-29, 11:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
There is also a surprise to those who were the first to see the trap in operation, no hints, but it is glorious.
I wish there could be video of this!
 
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-01-29, 14:25

Well, that was scary....

Last night I was looking at the new mob trap from the scaffolding above when I logged off. So, today, when I logged back on, I was in the trap...getting gradually dragged to centre....

I managed to get out (although it did require mining and replacing a single block - no worries - all is as it was before I started) but it was pretty crazy for a minute.
 
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-01-29, 14:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Well, that was scary....

Last night I was looking at the new mob trap from the scaffolding above when I logged off. So, today, when I logged back on, I was in the trap...getting gradually dragged to centre....

I managed to get out (although it did require mining and replacing a single block - no worries - all is as it was before I started) but it was pretty crazy for a minute.
Hahah! I specifically logged off in a "safe" place after looking at the trap yesterday because I figured by the time I logged back on the scaffolding might be gone! Glad you made it out alive.

User formally known as Sh0eWax
 
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-01-29, 15:22

Unbelievable: I warped to iJak to have a look at the trap, but he was standing on the edge, so I fell in again! Only this time it was also full of skellys and zombies. Made a warp to Kraetos with half a heart left.
 
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