Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Just curious.
I hate to say it, but I find myself not really caring much about what's going on with/at Apple these days. I still think they're the best at what they're doing, but it just doesn't feel quite the same anymore. Any new product rollouts simply won't get that extra push or "spark" he provided. Kinda feels "stock" or business-as-usual. I know his DNA is there and as long as people like Schiller, Ive, Forstall, etc. are around it kinda feels "right". But there's definitely something missing/off now. Was talking about this with someone the other day...was wondering if it was just me. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Don't get me wrong...I look forward to the new iPad, new notebooks and iMac designs, new iLife and iWork releases and I'll be getting the next-generation iPhone (5?) later this year.
But, for me, it's built-in momentum/enthusiasm that creates it, knowing there won't be any cool, memorable RDF moments during any of these introductions. I think we're going to miss this more than we realize. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Not in the least. I have the feeling Jobs' had a long-term vision for Apple that we're about to get a glimpse of this year. Now, that vision hasn't always served them well - and if they come out with another G4 Cube (Apple iTV ?) it may feel like a post-Jobs Apple is going downhill, but I truly believe that they have the culture and impetus to still create another one or two wtf-why-didn't-anyone-else-think-of-that products in the next 3 years.
So it goes. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Obviously, 3-5 years down the road Apple will be really and truly entering the post-Jobs era. We'll see where there are at that point. So it goes. |
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geri to my friends
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
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No not just you. I kinda feel a bit the same.
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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I think I'll need some more time to make up my mind about this. It's pretty clear that things will be different post Steve, but it's just too early to tell exactly how right now. Sure Tim, Ive and Phil are not Steve, but then again, who was expecting that anyway?
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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The company itself is strong, no doubt. And there will be many new "wow!!" products to come.
It'll just be different, I guess. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Idunno. Apple hasn't really introduced much of anything since Steve's passing, so I think it's a little too soon to say that Apple is less exciting or missing its spark. It's just been November, December, and January, and Apple normally doesn't release products in November, December, and January.
What they have announced — the iBooks / iTunes U stuff — looked like a minor revolution in its own right, though one admittedly a bit removed from the general consumer market. I'm excited for the next iPad, which should be a nice iterative improvement (dat display), but I'm even more excited for the next MacBook Pro and iMac, which should be real steps forward (or backward, if you like optical drives — the wailing will be glorious) for PCs. And I'm most excited of all for Apple's Next Big Thing, which I think will be an app-centric television. Apple only introduced one "new design" in 2011, so it was a bit of an off year for shiny new Apple products even before Steve's passing. (The exciting things about last year were the businessy stuff — watching Apple take over the world, and seeing the first signs of Apples outside of Apple, with things like Nest.) I think, if anything, 2012 will be more exciting than 2011. How fast do you think WWDC will sell out this year? Eight seconds? and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Not at all. I just read Jobs biography. He won a lot of battles at Apple, but the biggest was probably getting the people he wanted in all the key places. He won't be fighting any more battles, but he gave enough of an indication about what was coming and what he saw as important. TV, more publishing, and the cloud. This is the future of the company. Relative to the digital hub/lifestytle, it was interesting that he talked about the desktop in terms of the innovator's dilemma - that it wasn't devices that would replace it as the digital hub, but the cloud itself.
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Formerly “MumboJumbo”
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I think the excitement has waned but it has nothing to do with Jobs passing and everything to do with Apple's erratic and static progress of late.
Their software apps simply aren't being updated. The various Mac lines have gotten little more than spec updates for the last few years. The iPhone, thank goodness is still somewhat fresh even with most internal updates because it is still so far ahead of the game in many ways. The iPod line has been the same for 16 months now. The other side of the coin is there are indeed exciting developments in other places and it sort of brings you down when they are getting them and Apple is just sitting there. This is a prime example of what has got me a bit down about Apple. It isn't even that new. If Apple had something similiar in the pipeline but needed to be a few months behind to line up the ability to make MILLIONS of them instead of a a hundred thousand, Apple fans like myself can understand. Instead we have several new watch faces. Now I know people might say it's a dying market, but it isn't. It is exactly the type of market Apple does best in with regard to being vertical and high margin. Apple doesn't do $20 sneakers. They do the best $200 running shoes as an analogy. If Apple had a GPS Nike+ running/biking app and wireless syncing enabled iPod Nano that allowed bluetooth headsets with good battery life, they could sell it for $200-$250 easily and the people most likely to buy it probably already own plenty of other iDevices. They could let Nike offer a heart monitor with it that works via bluetooth as well. Think about all the other very beautiful and expensive accessories Apple could offer to all those folks who buy $1000-$2500 bikes. I don't even want to mention how many people I see out there running with older iPod Nano's or iPod Shuffles and $200-$300 Garmin watches. Apple helped create this market segment so the omission here is very telling in my opinion. Apple towers used to start at $1500. It doesn't really matter if Apple can give you an iMac a similar price point because those used to start at $1000. Apple feels far too much like 1991-1992 right now when their products cost double to triple the competition but it was fine because they had the best solutions for many market segments. I'm not stating outright Apple is going to have some sort of deep troubles. They might just be the IBM or Microsoft of the next 5-10 years. I was never excited or enthusiastic for those companies though. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
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I'm more excited for upcoming iPad releases then ever before, mainly because I've got it set in my head that I will be purchasing.
The only thing that seems different to me, is the amount of information that has come out about the operation of the company. It seems that under Steve it was a sealed environment, but Tim is more press-friendly. Has nothing to do with products or excitement, just two different styles of dealing with information. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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It's not like Apple has the ability to make MILLIONS of a thing, and Motorola doesn't. Motorola could pump out millions of those watch things if they wanted to; it's selling millions of them that's hard. You're looking at it backwards: the hard part isn't merely producing millions of a thing, it's making a thing that millions and millions of people will want. Apple can't do everything, and even if they could that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea to try. Focus is a good thing. If Apple has the choice between, say, making a $250 sport-tracking watch or reinventing television, which do you think they'd prefer? I'm not saying a $250 sport-tracking watch couldn't be a good and profitable product. I hope some company will be the Apple of sport-tracking watches and really knock it out of the park. But Apple's not that company. They have enough massively huge markets left to conquer that anything less — sport-tracking watches, e-ink readers, what have you — is a distraction. Quote:
By the way, there's a Mac mini for $599, which is (adjusted for inflation) roughly tied with the 2005 Mac mini as the cheapest Mac ever. So. Quote:
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Innovation isn't a zero-sum game. Some other company making a niche product that's relevant to your interests doesn't use up some of the finite Innovation Pie, or take some from Apple, or anything. Apple doesn't make sport-tracking watches not because they're not innovative enough to be able to, but because they're not interested in that market. It's the same reason they don't make thermostats or coffeemakers or microwaves. If Samsung makes an innovative microwave, and Apple doesn't, does that mean Samsung is more innovative than Apple? Apple is not the only company in the universe, so them not making Product X is not always a strike against them. But if you think Motorola is going to be more interesting to follow than Apple in the years ahead, by all means, go ahead and follow them. You could start a blog with a nonsensical name like Challenging Parasol. You could own the Motorola beat. You could even register MotorolaNova. But me? I'm staying here, because I think here is where the fun is going to be, sport-tracking watches or not. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Oh snap.
+ points for Robo because he said pretty much what I would've said but without profanity*. * Given, I can somehow say "thank you" with profanity involved. :/ |
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Apple's doing so insanely well that, while there's obviously plenty of things we wished were better (bitch, where my iWork '12 at), it's hard to long for something even greater. There's simply no more need to keep looking for that "I wish this time they get it right" rumor, because they have — with OS X, the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad. (And, perhaps, soon, iCloud.) |
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Oh, and <3 Robo.
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I need to clarify...this has nothing to do with their performance, relevance, etc. I DO NOT think "they're in trouble", or anything like that.
I just think some new things - or major updates to existing to existing products - will miss the razzle-dazzle and showmanship of some of this famous unveilings over the past 10 or so years. Like I said, it'll just be different. Not a decrease in quality or value, but without those demos and RDF-drenched intros, it going to feel a bit "less than" in some ways, that's all. That was always a big, fun part of this stuff...watching him work the room and making even the most pedestrian, expected feature seem so much more. I'm not making any "they're doomed!" statements here, I promise. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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re: chucker
But it still doesn't feel like it, does it? There's still so much holdover resentment wrt Apple always doing is cleaner, prettier and most importantly, better. So it goes. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Indeed. In some quarters, Apple is despised now more than ever...because they finally do present a real threat (or viable alternative) to companies or approaches that probably never thought they could.
They're not just "computers for hippie graphic types" anymore...and that's killing some people. Let's face it...there is no "tablet market". There's the iPad...then everything else fighting for the leftovers. you know that sticks in the butt of certain people! |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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I'll miss Steve's excitement, don't get me wrong, but I still expect an exciting announcement twice a year. That it will be given by more technical people shouldn't be a reason to be less excited. So it goes. |
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A big problem Apple hasn't solved at all is the widespread misunderstanding of what design is. I still see plenty of so-called 'design' or 'designer' products which are neither well-designed nor otherwise justified in costing more than their 'non-design' counterparts. Because of that incomplete or incorrect understanding, people resent Apple products for being 'overpriced', and conclude that their buyers must be idiots. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Maybe you're just missing Steve, Paul? I miss him too. The man was pretty much the last of the geniuses, and that we spent most of our adult lives connected with him, well, sure, I feel a hole.
Obviously we know the disconnect, but there was something there that went beyond the "he had a hand in designing this machine that I work on." It was always something personal. I have a dozen stories, as do you. My gf's dad gave me the book for Xmas, and I still don't want to read it. Maybe I feel like it would be the end of an era for me. Maybe I don't want it to end. But it is, and it did. So it goes. So it goes. Last edited by 709 : 2012-02-02 at 17:03. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
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Can't help but notice that in the wake of Apple's historic blow-out financials there's a sudden rush of making Apple synecdoche for corporate evil, ala the peculiar notion that Apple, and Apple alone, is responsible for prevailing working conditions in Chinese factories.
It's inevitable, I guess, in that the big dog is going to draw attention, but it is kind of depressing to see comments sections bristling with "Maybe Apple can give some of that to their slaves" or "once Apple controls all of our lives maybe they'll let us jump off their roof" and the like. Not that I don't fully support workers rights and whatever can be done to improve the lot of the average Chinese assembly line employee, it's just that pretending that it's an Apple problem (and the concomitant attitude that analysis of same begins and ends with "Apple sux") just so deeply misses the point. Anywho, the timing of "Apple destroys all before it" and "Boycott Apple they have slaves" seems..... provocative. That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
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Also, I agree with Paul's premise: without Steve, there isn't quite the buzz (for me). Partly because Steve, for everything else he was, was a bit of a lunatic, meaning that any given product introduction had at least the potential to be mind blowing (for good or ill).
Still, as others have pointed out, it's early days and we haven't seen much of the post-Jobs pipeline. I guess the real test will be a few years out, after the roadmap is exhausted and Apple is truly running on its own steam. That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated |
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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It's like giving someone a gift. When you give someone a gift, you're really curating a small portion of their lives. You're putting a book on their bookshelves or a picture on their wall or what have you, and if you're really good you'll delight them with something that they'll love and would never think of getting for themselves. You're putting your fingerprint on their lives. That's why we say "it's the thought that counts." Design is similar. Design is all about making choices for the user. This is why we care about brands; we want to buy from designers that share our values and will make choices that we appreciate. If you think about it, there's a tremendous amount of trust involved in purchasing a product. Maybe not something simple, like a light bulb. With a light bulb, we pretty much trust that it will A) fit into the socket, B) produce light and C) not explode. We don't expect much from our light bulbs. But with something complicated, like a computer, sharing values with the designer becomes much more important. We want it to not annoy us with things we don't want to be bothered with, and not make us learn things we don't want to have to learn, and present information in a way that makes intuitive sense to us. We want it to read our minds, essentially, and we're staring at the screen all day, so yes, we want it to look nice too. The more complicated a thing is, the more choices you make when designing it, and the more of you shines through the finished product. Is it any wonder that vehicle and computer brands have the most stereotypically loyal users? They're the most complicated consumer products. At the end of the day, I don't care much if the designers of my dishwasher share my values or not. Choosing a dishwasher is like choosing a kitten; I'd like one that looks nice but I'm reasonably sure I'd be happy with any of them. But choosing a computer or a car, that's more like choosing a spouse. You're gonna have to live with it, day in and day out, so you better choose one that shares your values and doesn't nag you with pop-ups. The choices that Apple makes put their collective fingerprints on my life every time I use one of their products. And Apple's values were Steve's values, because Steve built Apple. So I don't think it's odd to feel a personal connection with the people who "designed this machine that I work on." Computer design is design at its most intimate; you're not just designing to fit people's feet or hands or waistlines, but to fit the very way they think and feel. If that's not personal, then I don't know what is. I do take issue with your suggestion that Jobs was the last of the geniuses, though. I think there will be more Steves to inspire us in the future. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
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But the crazy thing about Steve is the degree to which he managed to infuse his personal artistic vision into this huge, make billions of devices company. I have no doubt there are plenty more geniuses to come, some of them with a unique vision of technology which may have a real impact on our lives. I wonder, though, how often you get someone who can make you feel as if you're buying a handcrafted one-off produced by a slightly eccentric visionary while simultaneously cranking them out like donuts.
That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated |
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Formerly “MumboJumbo”
Join Date: Dec 2009
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No worries man. You remember that guy at everyone's parties in 2007 that was telling them their house was going to be worth half of what it was then in a few short years. That guy was me, so I got that look a lot when we were all celebrating the new pool and backyard bbq's put in with those amazing second mortgages. Quote:
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They already make an iPod Nano. The stripped it down and focused it by making is smaller and touch. They could add a feature or two more to it and keep the margins rather than dropping the price. Quote:
Apple also has a history of getting too isolated. We are seeing that in a few threads in here as well. USB3 vs Thunderport, no Blueray, etc. I noted no iSync in SL as another example. Apple made iTunes and Quicktime cross compatible but not iWork. I guess those Windows folks don't need to buy those apps for their iPhones and iPads. Quote:
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My personal example was this Christmas we bought the boys these laptops. I wanted very much to get them Apple products but I'm not going to give a 10 and 12 year old boy a thousand dollar laptop and that was what Apple offers. Is it as awesome as the Apple solution? Of course not but the Apple solution is indeed 300% more in cost. Quote:
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BTW, nice pool and BBQ. Do you want to know what they'll be worth in three years? |
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geri to my friends
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
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Now just reading this thread you should see why this place would be worse off if you posted less Robo.
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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What would some of these other tech outfits give to be able to say that, I wonder? I'm not worried about Apple at all. There's just something I'm going to miss, going forward. Those were always such fun things to watch, and re-watch. To this day, I can sit and watch the 2007 iPhone introduction and it's like "holy hell...this is just about perfect!" You truly got the sense of "okay, this is way more than an iPod with a phone half-ass glommed on...", which is what most of the world seemed to be expecting. I know I was! But different can be good. It's just different. I do think 2012-2013 will be really good years. But more fun than watching Apple still do what they do will be watching those who despise them throw little unhinged hissy-fits several times a year. Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2012-02-02 at 20:41. |
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geri to my friends
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
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I think it's because SJ was such a strong character, and a lot of us just thought of him when ever Apple was mentioned.
It will take time to get used to Apple without SJ. Given time we'll get used to it. I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure. No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. |
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