[naashraf]

I quite often read here people giving comments on usage of proper English. Well, I don't understand why you Americans or perhaps Brits as well don't realize there are other languages in this world. Most probably you only speak oe language "English" but we speak more than one. Give us some appreciation. I speak Punjabi and Urdu. I have heard native Englsih speaking people talking in Urdu and they are even worst than us when we speak English.

Think different please!

[BenP]

Hey naashraf, I don't think any of us have problems with people who make small grammar mistakes where it's obvious the person is trying to be comprehensible. It's stuff like "o lol sry u r 2 kewl" where people sound like second graders on AIM that's annoying. It also makes the writer sound like he or she has a low level of intelligence, so pretty much everybody loses.

Read Brad's sig. It sums it up pretty well.

[Franz Josef]

Notwithstanding that most of the guys here are from the US, AppleNova is an international forum - it reflects the global reach of Apple Macs - and there is absolutely no necessity to be a native speaker of English to particpate fully.

As BenP says, what does annoy people is the laziness and silliness of some of the posts (by English native speakers) who don't appear to have evolved beyond strange teenage street language.

[Maciej]

Originally Posted by Franz Josef As BenP says, what does annoy people is the laziness and silliness of some of the posts (by English native speakers) who don't appear to have evolved beyond strange teenage street language.

Isn't it strange how those people seem to dissipate from the forum quite quickly? But we certainly do draw a varied crowd.

[DMBand0026]

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I'm 100% okay with someone who isn't a native english speaker who butchers things a bit, that's to be expected. PowerDoc (hopefully he doesn't mind me mentioning him) is from France, he doesn't know english well but he does his best and therefore contributes thoughtful and meaningful posts.

However, it's the people who are native English speakers who can't seem to handle using the actual language. The ones who are too lazy to learn the rules of grammar, to learn how to spell, or to learn how to use correct punctuation. The ones who are too lazy to type the words "too" or "to" so they type the number 2. That's really incomprehensible to me. It honestly takes me longer to think about typing the number 2 and than it would for me to type the word "too" or "to".

It's just mindless crap, and it needs to stop. It's irritating, it's juvenile, and most of all, I become dumber just by reading it. So please guys, give everyone a break and just type in English (or for those of you who aren't native English speakers; English to the best of your ability). It's really not hard.

[Franz Josef]

Originally Posted by Maciej But we certainly do draw a varied crowd.

I really hope we are a broad church!

[hflomberg]

U r rte - we shld spk gud!

Couldn't resist that

[GSpotter]

I fully second DMBand's post. As a non-native speaker myself, I'm astounded about the lazyness of some native speakers. Sometimes you can only figure out the meaning of a post be checking the "sound", as things like their, they're etc. are mixed up.

Mabe we should ask our resident english teacher to help those confused souls

[Maciej]

I have to be honest with you guys, I think this is simply out of your control. People will write how they speak, and people speak colloquially - thus its only human nature to make the same shortcuts in print. Although far too many Americans are being struck by the laziness disease, I don't think its possible to develop any sort of responsibility within these individuals.

[curiousuburb]

Unless they're challenged to skip specific letters, they may appear... challenged

[thegelding]

nobody minds when people type how they talk...we do it all the time...but nobody talks 2 u with words being just letters, except OK....

personally i blame prince and aol...but i forgive prince because u are just a genius you little mixed breed you...aol i condemn to hell for changing all written communication into instant replies...

kids, think a moment before hitting "post quick reply"...make a change or two...edit a word or a sentence...do a return once in a while if your post is long...the clarity of your post will greatly enhance your standing as a intelligent member of our community (if that matters to you in the least)...

as for our foreign friends...we love each and every one of your grammatical mistakes...you want to be here and are trying...that is wonderful...i suck at language and you will find me at zero boards that don't type in english because i would be an absolute lost little puppy...thanks for being a part of these "world" forums

g

[Brad]

I think it's perfectly fine if someone isn't a native English-speaker. Usually I can tell the difference between a foreigner and a fool, though. ESL (English as a second language) posters usually make and repeat the same syntactical and vocabulary errors because colloquialisms, idioms, informalities, and such are difficult to translate and understand properly. English is one of the most difficult languages to learn (as a second language) and I am always very impressed and proud of foreign users when they show a good grasp of the English language; that takes a lot of study and a real, concerted effort.

What bothers me, though, is what DMB said. When people intentionally (accidentally?) misspell half of the words they use and make little or no effort to structure and separate complete thoughts and phrases with grammar and punctuation, it does several things. Firstly and most visibly, it literally makes it a challenge to read and understand even the simplest of statements. Secondly, as this "sytle" is more frequently applied, it dilutes the consistency of and makes the overall language itself even more complicated and difficult to follow. I would hate to be trying to learn English as a second language while surfing the Internet. Thirdly it makes the poster himself look like a fool for either being too poorly-educated or too lazy to compose a coherent message. If the former is actually true, I apologize, but I believe the overwhelming majority of cases fall into the latter option.

er wud U rthr i typd all my psts like this i dun't think ne1 wud mind lol i think it makes meh luk relly kul i no it is bcuz its how all my homeboyz lol talk on im 2 i dun't c wuts teh probelm

This is also why I recently changed my signature to be a subtle reminder that you are defined by what you post. If your posts look like they are written by an idiot, for all intents and purposes you are an idiot because these posts are the only way we know anything about you.

[thegelding]

sort of the typed out equivalent of: better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...

that being said...we still love questions, even the occasional "dumb" one...don't be afraid to post, don't be afraid to ask...just put a modicum of thought and effort into it...

thanks

g


plus remember the edit function...i use it on almost all posts as i am none too bright myself

[Brad]

Originally Posted by thegelding sort of the typed out equivalent of: better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...

Aha! Thanks, G. That is exactly the line I was struggling to remember last night.

[Bryson]

Excellently said, Brad and thegelding.

In fact, Brad, may I steal your sig and use it on my forum? Txt Spk and the like is a real problem on there, and it's difficult to articulate why we have such a problem with it.

[Brad]

Sure! Anything to fight off the fools...

[Wrao]

I will typically only correct a person's spelling/grammar when they are clearly being a dumbass otherwise. Kind of adding insult to injury type thing. Makes for good zingers.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Brad Sure! Anything to fight off the fools...

Mr. T notwithstanding...

Faux 'ghetto speak' doesn't impress much either.

Sucka's beggin' to be thrown

[Mugge]

I also agree with you guys on this topic. I'm not a native english speaking person myself, so I have my Oxford advanced learners dictionary right next to my computer. and for the same reason I've never become much of a fan of live chatting and IM. I don't really get annoyed by people who use "dood speak" but it does give me certain ideas about their wits.

Actually the internet (and school textbooks) have become my main source of maintaining my written english as I learned it in highschool, and because of that, I like to put a little effort into my grammar.

Could we hire a grammar nazi to give fedback?

[sunrain]

I also don't think it's very difficult to tell the difference between a slacker native speaker and someone who is truly trying, but missing some of the incredibly fine nuance that this wacky language has.

I'd like to put some clever "l33t" comment here, but I'd just get a headache. As Mugge said, at least you know exactly how little credit to give the poster. It can save a lot of time.

[ast3r3x]

Originally Posted by naashraf I have heard native Englsih speaking people talking in Urdu and they are even worst than us when we speak English.

Worse.

...and they are even worse than us when we speak English.

Basically what Brad said.


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[MCQ]

I vote ast3r3x, whose member name is an example of this whole mess, grammar nazi.

[BenP]

I wonder if he can give fedback?

[Carlos Net]

Could we hire a grammar nazi to give fedback?

Sorry, did someone say grammar nazi...?

I am both a grammar nazi AND proficient in the slaughter of the English language.

|_13|<, _|00 43;- 4|_|_ 73|-| |o|-|00|_Z!!!1!!!11!1!!11!!1eleventy-one1 1~|\|1+ 8;-|_|\/ |\/|0|o|-|0ZZ!!?! \x/3z7Z41|>Z0;-z!!!!11!11!!1!!1

Oh my God. I never knew I had THAT in me. O_o

On the other hand, that was coming from the guy who once typed "like a fox" in a combination of l33t, pig latin, hiragana, German and Japanese, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised at myself. -_-

[geneman]

Personally, I welcome correction of my (and others) English, as I see it as a way improve it; so in general I have no problem with people correcting others.

That being said, it could become a problem if threads are "hijacked" by grammar nazis. Fortunately I haven't found this to be a problem on this board.

I'd also like to add that I find it significantly harder (and sometimes impossible) to read IM-type language (I have the same problem in Danish). Usually I simply skip sections like that.

Having hi standards for language can only improve the board, so please follow the great advice posted in this thread (native as well as non-native speakers).

[Carlos Net]

Having hi standards for language can only improve the board

That should be 'high standards'. 'Hi' is, ironically enough, a textspeak-style abbreviation of the word -_-

[geneman]

Originally Posted by Carlos Net That should be 'high standards'. 'Hi' is, ironically enough, a textspeak-style abbreviation of the word -_-

hehe, there you go

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by geneman I'd also like to add that I find it significantly harder (and sometimes impossible) to read IM-type language (I have the same problem in Danish). Usually I simply skip sections like that.

Danish eh? For some odd reason I find that language the most easy in the world

And about grammar nazis. I have noticed that one has just registered on this board. Oh boy, are we in for a spanking?

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by Mugge And about grammar nazis. I have noticed that one has just registered on this board.

Hmm, his registration date seems to be a bit "strange": Join Date: 1970-01-01.
Either it's a pseudonym of an admin, or the server forgot to adjust it's watch after the trip to Vegas...

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by GSpotter Hmm, his registration date seems to be a bit "strange": Join Date: 1970-01-01. Either it's a pseudonym of an admin, or the server forgot to adjust it's watch after the trip to Vegas...

Or his Location: is "Tardis"