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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2023-11-30, 04:34

Bush respected the outcome of the 2020 election. Trump did not.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2023-11-30, 09:22

Henry Kissinger, War Criminal Beloved by America’s Ruling Class, Finally Dies.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 09:26

I thought he died some time ago. I truly did.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 09:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Bush respected the outcome of the 2020 election. Trump did not.
Trump is deranged and childish. Nobody on the planet, at this points, needs to feign or gin up any sort of shock or surprise at anything he does or says. He’s had plenty of opportunities to act right and he refuses.

Why/how people, on both sides, take him seriously anymore is truly beyond me.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2023-11-30 at 09:41.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2023-11-30, 10:05

I don’t know. He looks to have a real chance of winning the nomination. And if he ends up on the ballot, that’s a real problem with real consequences. Because regardless of how clownish he is, it puts his hands on a lot of levers of significant consequence.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2023-11-30, 10:11

Trump has it in the bag, the republicans would be destroyed by their base if he isn’t picked.

Clown show 2.0 will be coming to an election near you. Good chance he wins that too sadly.
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chucker
 
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2023-11-30, 10:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Trump is deranged and childish. Nobody on the planet, at this points, needs to feign or gin up any sort of shock or surprise at anything he does or says. He’s had plenty of opportunities to act right and he refuses.

Why/how people, on both sides, take him seriously anymore is truly beyond me.
I take him seriously in the sense that I think he can (and has) commit serious damage, but I was merely responding to the both-sidesism.

Like, if people want to celebrate at Bill Clinton's or Barack Obama's death, you do you, but yeah, if Donald Trump dies, my response will probably be along the lines of "eh, good riddance, I guess".
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 10:27

I don't/wouldn't celebrate anyone's death. Just not wired that way. Everybody is someone's son, daughter, spouse, father, friend. I think people who do that are hopelessly tacky and not raised right.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2023-11-30 at 10:45.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2023-11-30, 10:54

Obama has been far from immune to criticism - both legitimate and partisan, or otherwise racist and insane.

I think making fun of his manner is totally fair game. Every leader gets parodied. Being the first black American president means that sometimes parody is going to tread close to sensitivities around race, and we do live in a climate of heightened anxiety and opportunistic sensorship. But I think it should be totally OK to make fun of any President.

That said, from the perspective of his personal conduct he has always been outwardly decent, faithful to the office (and his spouse!), polite, measured, free of personal scandal, in a word... "Presidential"

If he gets a bit of a pass, more than any president in recent memory he seems to have earned it by his conduct.

.........................................
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2023-11-30, 11:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Trump has it in the bag, the republicans would be destroyed by their base if he isn’t picked.
This is the crux of it and why it's so hard for any politician running with an (R) next to their name to disavow Trump. He got 11 million+ more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and that gap is all MAGA. After seeing how Trump acted as President, after all of his buffoonery, stupidity, racism and being proved as the greatest traitor to the US to ever hold that office, they wanted another 4 years. That rabid anti-democracy 11 million holds all the cards, and a Republican cannot win an election without them. They know it, Trump knows it.

It bears repeating: The modern GOP is not a governing party. It's a grievance party. If Republican voters don't think you're hurting the right people then you may as well not run, because you'll be run out of today's GOP one way or another.

So it goes.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2023-11-30, 11:18

Then maybe a Republican shouldn't be President.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2023-11-30, 11:25

If we had an actual democracy, they wouldn't be.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2023-11-30, 11:30

Republicans have historically sought to tilt the table even further:

Gerrymandering in US
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 11:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I know you’re not suggesting Obama is like the other two, but I’ll mention it anyway because he’s a good example of someone who gets lumped in with the rest just because partisans tend to get hurt feelings when their own get criticized. There’s simply no comparison. He was a model of decorum, manners, and statesmanship worthy of the best traditions. You don’t have to agree with his politics to recognize his conduct was generally a step above his peers.
I agree with you completely!

However, the MAGA Republicans see him as the beginning of their sorrows. You may not agree, but he was quite divisive, and not just because of the "he ain't even a city-zen" business.

Hard-core "Republicans" will cheer his death because they see him as a traitor. I know people like this — and far too many. The Clinton cabal and the Obamas are absolutely hated by the majority of Republicans, as much as Trump is absolutely hated by the majority of Democrats.

It doesn't matter if they're "on the same plane" or not, it's just how the parties have aligned themselves. The new "Republicans" see Obama and Hillary Clinton as worse than Trump (and, as far as Hillary goes, I tend to agree with them).

But, and I've said it before, I'd much rather a moderate Democrat be President than Donald Trump any day. But, Democrats can no longer get a moderate elected. Their candidate has to stand up there and whine about MAGA for three hours every news conference or they don't stand a chance.

Best of all would be someone who could take the office and not once in four years mention the other party by name, not even once!

"Here's what we need to get done! Any questions?"

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 11:46

Here we go.

Another year of this…

Another four years of Trump and his immature, unhinged nonsense will only divide the joint farther. Don’t need that. No whackjob Democrat (is there any other kind at high-profile, national level?) is gonna fix that either.

Are there any normal people remaining? Electable ones? Anyone is “electable”, that’s the problem. We keep proving it.

How about Pauly Shore and Lamont Sanford? Sure, why not?

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2023-11-30 at 12:04.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 11:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Here we go.

Another year of this…
You love it!

All you have to do is go down and vote for Thunder Nuts or Kamala Harris.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2023-11-30, 11:58

Democratic candidates whining about MAGA don't make them extreme, but it's still bad politics. They need to tell people what they're going to do for them to make their lives better. It's a wide open lane at this point because neither party is doing it.

.........................................
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 12:01

Exactly my point.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 12:10

Some of us don’t need/want politicians “doing stuff” for us. Other than maybe shut up and get out of the way a little? I don’t vote for someone based on all the nebulous shit he promises to “give” me/"do for" me. That’s high school level decision-making nobody over 30, either party, should be doing.

The best thing a professional politician can do to “make my life better” is to kinda shut up and disappear for 2-4 years. I don't "need" them in any real, tangible way, which is why I have such a damn hard time pulling the lever for any of them. It's like voting for your favorite North Pole elf...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
All you have to do is go down and vote for Thunder Nuts or Kamala Harris.
Ain't much I'd vote for her on. She already backed/fell into the second biggest gig in the country. Ain't much she needs from me at this point. I couldn't do any better for her. Ask her to help with some filing work, project scheduling and taxes, maybe? Occasional legal advice?

I'd probably get slapped for the "insult".

She'd be pleasant to look at, hanging around the joint, in a Pam Grier kinda way, but I know that's beneath her and I'd never do that anyway.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2023-11-30 at 12:34.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 12:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Some of us don’t need/want politicians “doing stuff” for us. Other than maybe shut up and get out of the way a little? I don’t vote for someone based on all the nebulous shit he promises to “give” me. That’s high school level decision-making nobody over 30, either party, should be doing.

The best thing a professional politician can do to “make my life better” is to kinda shit up and disappear for 2-4 years.


Ain't gonna happen. There is a certain class that believes themselves so superior to you that they honestly believe you cannot make it without their decision-making skills. One need look no further than your local HOA board members.

From there on up, the vast majority are nothing more than a bunch of ladder-climbing shills that figured out how to make a very good living by doing what corporate America tells them and then turning around and telling you how to live.

Yes, I know there are a few handfuls of decent politicians trying to make a difference, but I bet no one can name any of them, and certainly not at the national level.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 12:37

True. But it doesn't change my original point/belief. No elected official has ever improved my day-to-day existence in any way I'm truly aware of. And I'd never take a bag of money from any of them because I figure the "payback" is far more overwhelming. I don't wanna be on the hook to any politician (or Tony Soprano/Vito Corleone).

Sometimes favors/gifts/good deeds come with too steep a price.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2023-11-30, 12:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
… they honestly believe you cannot make it without their decision-making skills.
For at least 50%, or more, of the population with sub 90IQs, it’s probably true. Even smarter people are lazy, and don’t use critical thinking when doing things, so we do kind of need them.

In our last provincial election one of the right wing leaders was even bold enough to say it in not so many words. His arrogance was off the charts, and he lost, big time.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 13:26

Getting away from all this fun political talk for two minutes...

In news that's probably a shock to no one, world champion drinker/singer/songwriter, Shane McGowan, from the Pogues has died at 65. He's been a royal mess for as long as I can remember. I read an interview with him decades ago and was just astounded at how rough and crazy his life must've been. Kinda made Keith Richards look like David Cassidy.

Article/announcement at Yahoo.com.

He'd been in poor health for a long time, so it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

I saw them in some documentary a while back. And I know they made a memorable SNL appearance at one point as well, drunk off their ass. At least he was. Not really my cup of tea, musically, but I've been aware of him, and his music/bands, for decades.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 15:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
For at least 50%, or more, of the population with sub 90IQs, it’s probably true. Even smarter people are lazy, and don’t use critical thinking when doing things, so we do kind of need them.
And, the more politicians hold their hands, the more they need politicians to hold their hands.

Politicians love dumb people!
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 16:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Getting away from all this fun political talk for two minutes...

In news that's probably a shock to no one, world champion drinker/singer/songwriter, Shane McGowan, from the Pogues has died at 65. He's been a royal mess for as long as I can remember. I read an interview with him decades ago and was just astounded at how rough and crazy his life must've been. Kinda made Keith Richards look like David Cassidy.

Article/announcement at Yahoo.com.

He'd been in poor health for a long time, so it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

I saw them in some documentary a while back. And I know they made a memorable SNL appearance at one point as well, drunk off their ass. At least he was. Not really my cup of tea, musically, but I've been aware of him, and his music/bands, for decades.
Are there any semi-famous or super-famous musicians that aren't a bit nuts?
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 16:46

Not a single one. Part of the job requirement. Either raging ego cases or totally hostage to drugs and booze. I suppose there may be an exception out there, but they’re not the ones you hear about. This guy’s body was all used up.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2023-11-30, 17:31

That image half-way down the article says it all.

What a slug.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 18:12

Started drinking as a young boy.

Yeah, that’s kinda what happens when you’re a full-blown drunk by 13-14. It isn’t romantic or cool.

Those who think so probably own a rehab facility.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2023-11-30, 18:30

His parents started him on alcohol before he was even five. The raw talent that he poured into his work is incredible, genre-blending, powerful, tragic. I'm sure he must have been insufferable. Some of the biggest talents are. I can separate the man from his works. We are almost fully within the period where all our cultural touchstones begin to pass.


...
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-11-30, 18:53

Yep. Two Beatles left. When Duran Duran and members of The Breakfast Club/John Hughes stable start to go, it’s gonna hit “oh crap, I kinda got old!”

Which absolutely beats the alternative.

Re: McGowan, all I’ve read today is his passionate writing, lyrics, artistic this and that, so off to YouTube I went. Do you know how hard it is to understand a drunken toothless person?!?

It’s asking a lot of my ever-deafer ass.

I’m sure his writing was something else. Wthout some subtitles, I’ll never know. Good grief!
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