[atomicbartbeans]

I saw in another thread, somebody mentioned "Screen Spanning Doctor" for use with an iBook. I have been using my iBook for everything since January, and I thought "BS, you can't do that with an iBook". WRONG. I googled for Screen Spanning Doctor, and lo and behold, a little script on MacUpdate that enables screen spanning on your iBook. I tried it, and it works awesome with a 15" CRT. I've doubled my screen real estate in 10 minutes for free, and I'm officially having a good day now. i had no idea how facockting beautiful it is to hold down shift while minimizing something, and see it fly across 2 screens.

Why would Apple disable screen spanning on the iBook? Perhaps to boost Powerbook sales?

[Brad]

For how many years has this been common knowledge?

To answer your last question: yes.

[atomicbartbeans]

Common knowledge? Years?

I would've killed for something like this up until a few minutes ago. I thought it was impossible with the iBook's video card. Damn the Apple store guy for telling me "No, your iBook can't ever do that, you'd have to get a Powerbook". I should walk in there with my iBook, hook it up to one of their Cinema Displays, and have 2 full-screen Quicktime movies going. That would show them their product's true capabilities...

I'll bring a stack of CD's burned with Spanning Doctor, and sell them for $5 each. No, I'm not selling them freeware, I'm selling them a CDR. The freeware just happens to be on it.

To this day, my iBook still surprises me with incredibly cool stuff it can do.

[Luca]

Except if you do that, they'd just void your warranty. Most Apple employees should know about the hack, but they are forced to maintain the ruse that iBooks can't handle it, even though every iBook since May 2002 can.

[psmith2.0]

I don't want to totally pee on your lunchbox , but you won't be able to do that with the DVI-only Cinema Displays. I think the iBooks are VGA or something. I know they're not DVI, and you wouldn't be able to demonstrate this cool feature on a Cinema Display.

At least not without some sort of adapter, I would imagine.

Just saving you the embarrassment of walking in to an Apple store with your iBook, yelling out "gather 'round and watch THIS, asses..." and THEN discovering you won't be able to do it.

[Luca]

That too. I just didn't want to come off as COMPLETELY dry and lacking humor...

Furthermore I should point out that selling freeware is illegal, and $5 is more than even Apple charges for CD-Rs.

[atomicbartbeans]

Yes, but these CDR's have been personally autographed by yours truly. I'm officially selling CDR's, not freeware. It's just coincidence that Spanning Doctor it on it.

Damn, you're right... no DVI monitor. Well, I could walk in with another LCD monitor and say "Gather 'round and watch THIS, asses"... it would still have the same wow-effect to dozens of gullible idiots who think that their iBook can't span.

[ghoti]

Selling freeware is not illegal - because, as you point out, you're only selling the media. So you can't restrict what people do with the software on the media, of course - but you can charge them for finding the interesting stuff, burning it, and for the media themselves. So $5 per CD would not exactly be cheap, but it would be okay - and legal.

[atomicbartbeans]

Exactly.

[pv2b]

I'd like to point out that enabling the screen spanning hack on an older iBook (such as my iBook G3 700 MHz 16VRAM) will disable Quartz Extreme, and fall back to plain old Quartz -- leading to choppy Exposé and all other non-goodness that entails.

[staph]

Originally Posted by ghoti Selling freeware is not illegal - because, as you point out, you're only selling the media.

[PEDANTIC FUCK MODE]
Actually, it depends on the licence. The GPL expressly allows distribution of copyright material for money, so long as the copyright notice is kept with it, and you make the source code available for the end user.

It it were freeware, but not under a liberal open-source licence, it would be a breach of copyright, because copyright infringement arises from the act of copying without a permission/licence.
[/PEDANTIC FUCK MODE]

Just so nobody has any illusions as to my sense of humour or lack thereof.

[atomicbartbeans]

Yes, however because you're just selling the media anyways, it doesn't matter the license, as long as it's freeware.

In CompUSA, you can buy Firefox and Openoffice on a CD for $30. That's an example of open-source software being sold.

[jbloodwo]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Yes, however because you're just selling the media anyways, it doesn't matter the license, as long as it's freeware. In CompUSA, you can buy Firefox and Openoffice on a CD for $30. That's an example of open-source software being sold.

Yep it is. and in a cute little yellow box. Dont forget that at the core OS X is darwin and darwin is a fork of xBSD xNIX and is freeware.
also all the GNU/Linux distros like Novell (Nee SUSE) and RedHat (r) are also using libersoft.

[Ichiban_jay]

just remember if you ever have to bring the laptop in for work (apple warranty service) to uninstall it

[Unbeliever]

i really hope you're joking about selling Screen Spanning Doctor, sorry, CDRs.

[atomicbartbeans]

Originally Posted by Ichiban_jay just remember if you ever have to bring the laptop in for work (apple warranty service) to uninstall it

Why? It's just like installing some other software that gives your computer new capabilities. Why would they deny warranty service because of it?

[ghoti]

According to a guy I talked to at an apple shop, the iBook isn't cooled enough to drive two displays. So if your logic board melts, and Apple finds the software on your computer, they might say that it was your fault. I don't know if that really is their policy, but it's possible.

Software can damage hardware. It's not very common, but it's possible.

[atomicbartbeans]

Yes, but they put a monitor port on the side anyways. Even with mirroring, the video card must drive both displays (because the external display port uses the 2nd video hookup on the GPU itself), and so only 16MB is devoted to each display. So why don't people's iBooks overheat when using mirroring?

I've been working with both screens for a couple hours this morning. I just started up Temperature Monitor. My GPU is steady at 103.5 degrees (fahrenheit). However, when I play games using just the iBook's built-in screen (no external display attached), my GPU peaks around 150 degrees before the fan turns on. Ergo, whether the iBook uses video mirroring or spanning makes no difference in heat build-up, which is usually very low.

Correct me if I just did a banana.

[ghoti]

I know it doesn't overheat, I just said that it could. And that if it did, Apple might refuse to cover the repair under warranty/AppleCare.

Your logic is flawed, however. The external jack could just mirror the signal that goes to your LCD anyway, using practically no additional power. But if there was a second D/A converter for the external Monitor, perhaps with a higher resolution/refresh rate (don't know if that's possible on the iBook), it would mean twice the memory access, plus another high-speed DAC. And that could mean quite a bit more heating of components.

Again, I'm not saying it does. I'm just saying that I was told it would.

[atomicbartbeans]

I didn't mean to contradict you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the iBook has the capability to mirror, then that means that there must be another D/A converter and such running the external display, even when it's mirroring. And even when it's mirroring, there's a couple seconds during startup when the iBook LCD shows the aqua blue background lines thing, and the external display is just solid aqua blue. I'm pretty sure that that wouldn't happen if the external connector simply used the LCD's video feed, for then the 2 displays would have to match at all times. Ergo, the iBook must be wired for separate outputs at all times.

Also, Screen Spanning Doctor doesn't *have* to be installed all the time. It is in fact not a program but a tiny script, one that turns on the hack by changing the firmware. Your iBook retains the capability until you zap the PRAM. So, you could just have SSD on a CDR, so you have it to use if your PRAM ever gets zapped. However, if your logic board melts (if that ever happens due to spanning, I'll eat my hot, steaming shit), then the firmware would melt or at least get corrupted, so you would leave no evidence on the iBook when you send it in.

Oh, I have a dual-fan coolpad. I'm sure that makes a difference as far as cooling is concerned.

I'm not saying you're sinfully wrong, I'm just saying that there's evidence otherwise. Yes, software can damage hardware, but I doubt that this is an example thereof.

[atomicbartbeans]

On a somewhat related note, you can soon run up to 4 monitors with the Mac Mini (or 5 with the iBook) at up to 1280x1024 for each one.

[ghoti]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the iBook has the capability to mirror, then that means that there must be another D/A converter and such running the external display, even when it's mirroring.

Not true. You could just up the power of the DAC a bit and then split the signal. Like those headphone things where you can use two sets of headphones on one iPod. The iPod doesn't get a second DAC this way, but the output is "mirrored".

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans And even when it's mirroring, there's a couple seconds during startup when the iBook LCD shows the aqua blue background lines thing, and the external display is just solid aqua blue.

That, of course, is a clear indication that there are two DACs. But that was obvious anyway, since the external monitor can not only mirror ...

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Ergo, the iBook must be wired for separate outputs at all times.

Could be, but doesn't have to. They could also switch between using the same DAC and two different DACs, and save power this way. Of course, I'm assuming that the LCD wants a VGA signal, which might be completely off, too.

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans I'm not saying you're sinfully wrong, I'm just saying that there's evidence otherwise. Yes, software can damage hardware, but I doubt that this is an example thereof.

I'm really just playing the devil's advocate here, repeating what somebody told me. It's obvious that it works, and many people have posted that they use screen spanning all the time without problems. Still, it's not officially supported by Apple, and if they were looking for an excuse not to cover the costs for a repair, this might give them ammunition (and for that, a PRAM setting is as good as finding a program on your disk).

[atomicbartbeans]

You really think that the PRAM would remain untouched if the logic board fried?

[goingin]

Just to be clear, if your iBook fries as a result of this hack, you can undo this hack by resetting the PRAM with the keyboard combo (command, option, p, r)? 'Cause when it's fried, I guess you can't get into the system to uninstall it the proper way

Just to be sure, but it is possible to uninstall it by resetting PRAM?

[Wickers]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans On a somewhat related note, you can soon run up to 4 monitors with the Mac Mini (or 5 with the iBook) at up to 1280x1024 for each one.

Well... not anytime soon that is.

[Kestrel]

ghoti and atomicbartbeans, you both seem to think that the iBook's internal screen is connected to a DAC. Why is this? I have never heard of a laptop that converts to analog and then back to digital for display on the internal screen. Every laptop I have seen drives the pixels directly (without a standard digital interface like DVI) - that's why you can't pop a screen out of any laptop and connect it to a desktop computer.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by goingin Just to be clear, if your iBook fries as a result of this hack, you can undo this hack by resetting the PRAM with the keyboard combo (command, option, p, r)? 'Cause when it's fried, I guess you can't get into the system to uninstall it the proper way Just to be sure, but it is possible to uninstall it by resetting PRAM?

Will resetting your PRAM after the fact help unfry your logic board or unvoid your warranty? Nope.

[ghoti]

Originally Posted by Kestrel ghoti and atomicbartbeans, you both seem to think that the iBook's internal screen is connected to a DAC.

I have no idea how an LCD is driven - could be analog or digital, or whatever. But I can see how it makes sense to do it digitally and with the simplest connection possible. So thanks for the clarification!

[atomicbartbeans]

Yes, the script doesn't install anything on the HD, it just modifies the PRAM.

[Luca]

In fact, I think the warranty thing is kind of a myth. Installing the software doesn't instantly void your warranty, or it shouldn't... it's just that if you mess up your computer somehow, Apple will not cover the repair. Some early iBooks (ones with Rage chips instead of Radeons) were permanently damaged when people tried to apply the spanning hack. That was back when you had to boot into Open Firmware to apply it, and messing up could actually permanently hose the motherboard.

So before the Screen Spanning Doctor program came out, a lot of people just assumed that applying the hack would void the warranty simply because it looked scary booting into OF and so on. But I don't think it actually matters... I highly doubt Apple actually checks iBooks they get for the hack before servicing them, unless the problem is a result of the hack.