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New iPhone line, October 2011 — free iPhone! Sprint iPhone! Scary iPhone?
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Xaqtly
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-10-04, 18:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
HOW THE FUCK CAN ANYONE BE MEH ABOUT THIS?
Honestly? Because I don't talk to my phone. I grok that Siri is some serious shit, but it requires you to stand around looking like a complete idiot issuing commands to your phone like you're pretending to be Kirk telling Scotty to beam him up for god's sake because he got all those aliens pregnant and they've almost caught up to him.

I work in an office with a lot of people. I'm not going to be able to use Siri at work. It's the kind of interface you just can't use everywhere, for the same reason you don't read your email out loud on the bus. Now I'm willing to accept that I may be the only person on the planet who is not sold on Siri, but I already know for a fact that talking to my phone is simply not something I am going to be able to do whenever I want, and I'm not going to want to very often either.

It's more of a "behind closed doors" technology as I see it. I don't know, I could very well be missing something, and I would be happy to be enlightened. Right now I'm not seeing the good side in terms of how you have to use it, interface-wise.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-10-04, 18:29

I just meh'd to indicate my level of non-expectational sublimity, though getting you jacked up proved entertaining

I will say that the voice command is my NUMBER ONE favorite thing, so if improvements are significant I might upgrade. I need to see the demos and read reviews. Please everyone, upgrade and post your results. Seriously.


...
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2011-10-04, 18:33

A lot of phones have had the ability to voice dial for some time. No biggy.
  quote
Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2011-10-04, 18:33

I just called Sprint customer service. I talked to the SERO specific people and they said all signs point to it being available on SERO premium, the 40$ a month plan. That includes the subsidy for the handset, but you cannot pre-order the device.

*Happy Dance*
*Happy Dance*
*Happy Dance*
*Happy Dance*
*Happy Dance*

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
  quote
Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-04, 18:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeriatric View Post
A lot of phones have had the ability to voice dial for some time. No biggy.
What's your point?

Even the iPhone has had voice dialing. This is beyond voice dialing.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-10-04, 18:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeriatric View Post
A lot of phones have had the ability to voice dial for some time. No biggy.
  quote
FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
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Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2011-10-04, 18:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Okay… I give you… iPad 2.
If the next revision is called an "iPad 2S", I'm gonna be upset.
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 18:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
I just meh'd to indicate my level of non-expectational sublimity, though getting you jacked up proved entertaining

I will say that the voice command is my NUMBER ONE favorite thing, so if improvements are significant I might upgrade. I need to see the demos and read reviews. Please everyone, upgrade and post your results. Seriously.


...
Heh. I only said "meh" because I couldn't figure out how to put the stress mark for "blasé" in the right place when using all caps, that being the more generic term designed to avoid appearing to be a response to anyone in particular.

I BET FREAKING SIRI COULD HAVE DONE IT FOR ME.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-10-04, 19:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
I BET FREAKING SIRI COULD HAVE DONE IT FOR ME.



On iOS, you just hold "E."
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
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2011-10-04, 19:03

I can think of a handful of basic sort of functions that, if Siri performs them reliably, could be seriously useful and time saving. I don't love the idea of talking to my phone(or computer or really any device to be honest) but the hope is that as this technology becomes smarter and more capable you won't need to bark at the phone so much and will learn to accomplish a lot of tasks quickly without looking like a total burk,
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 19:13

Yeah, but you know people talk to their phones a lot. All the time, actually, it's called "having a conversation." So I'm not so sure the spectacle of people, you know, saying stuff into their phone is really going to be the occasion for ridicule it's being made out to be.

I wonder if we're on the cusp of yet another social/technological sea change, where "you'd never catch me dead doing that " seemingly overnight turns into "what kind of Luddite refuses to do that?" Not like it hasn't happened before, or a lot, lately.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
evan
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2011-10-04, 19:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post


On iOS, you just hold "E."
in Lion, you just hold the "E"
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2011-10-04, 19:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
What's your point?

Even the iPhone has had voice dialing. This is beyond voice dialing.
My point is we talk into a bluetooth headset/mic and use voice dial and dont worry about it, so to me this is no problem. Thats all.
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
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2011-10-04, 19:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Yeah, but you know people talk to their phones a lot. All the time, actually, it's called "having a conversation." So I'm not so sure the spectacle of people, you know, saying stuff into their phone is really going to be the occasion for ridicule it's being made out to be.

I wonder if we're on the cusp of yet another social/technological sea change, where "you'd never catch me dead doing that " seemingly overnight turns into "what kind of Luddite refuses to do that?" Not like it hasn't happened before, or a lot, lately.
My point exactly. Thanks addabox.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2011-10-04, 19:56

If I had a blog like Daring Fireball, I would probably make a post that collected my feelings on today's iPhone announcements, in general. This is that post.

On the name

I still don't quite get it, but it's not that big a deal. The operative word is still "iPhone." Most iPhone 4Ses will be sold to people who have not had iPhones of any kind.

On the screen size

It's fine. Apple doesn't want to make the screen larger until they're ready to segment the line-up. They're not ready to do that yet, though I think they will someday. In the meantime, I really doubt the 3.5" screen will significantly dampen sales.

I love my 4.3" phone, but I'd switch to the iPhone 4S in a heartbeat.

On the camera

The iPhone is increasingly less a phone with a tacked-on camera and more a great phone and a great camera somehow overlapped in spacetime. How many other phones have a dedicated image processor? And of course, iOS 5 brings many other improvements, and even allows you take a picture with the volume up key.

Now that we know this design is sticking around for a while, I really hope Studio Neat makes a white version of their ingenious Glif.

On Siri

Absolutely brilliant. This is the type of thing Apple does — very simply, they take technology and make it work for people. A lot of other companies make technology that works against people, that people have to adapt to instead of the other way around. It's not something that's measured in specs or numbers, although Apple is certainly no slouch with that stuff. Other phones have voice control — other iPhones have voice control — but nobody actually uses it unless it actually works well enough to make it easier than using the screen. Up until now, it never has been.

I think it's very interesting that Apple chose to take the feature to market as Siri, rather than the rumored Assistant. They're personifying technology, in a very real sense. Tellingly, on their iPhone comparison chart they don't label the row as "Built-in Siri assistant" and then put a check in the iPhone 4S column. They label the row as "Built-in assistant" and then put "Siri" in the iPhone 4S column. This suggests to me that, as addabox suggests, Apple views the voice assistant as a key feature that will be iterated and improved — and that future improved versions will be tied to future iPhones, even though it's "just software." Smarter AI will be one of the things you'll buy a new iPhone for.

In short, "Built-in assistant" is the feature, and "Siri" is just the first version — future AIs will have different names, and in keeping with the illusion, I don't think they'll just use "Siri 2." (I'm sure they'll all be female names, though, because giving their new smarter-than-Siri AI a male name would seem chauvinistic.)

On the free iPhone

Bonkers. Even ignoring the initial $200 drop, the 8GB iPhone has dropped in price $100 on average each year for the last four years. Remember when everybody used to criticized Apple products for being expensive? Oh wait, they still do.

On Cards

I love this app. Someone on Twitter said it was too expensive. I don't know where they buy their cards (I get mine at Target), but $2.99 for a card — especially a embossed one with a custom photo — isn't expensive at all. A lot of regular "funny" cards — no embossing, no foil, obviously no photo — are $3. And that doesn't include postage.

My sister asked if you can have them include iTunes gift cards. I am 100% sure that this is going to be a feature in the future.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2011-10-04, 20:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
If I had a blog like Daring Fireball, I would probably make a post that collected my feelings on today's iPhone announcements, in general. This is that post.

On the name

I still don't quite get it, but it's not that big a deal. The operative word is still "iPhone." Most iPhone 4Ses will be sold to people who have not had iPhones of any kind.
Bit of a double-edged glass and aluminum sword though when there are three "iPhone" models now.
  quote
torifile
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2011-10-04, 20:44

The "S" is for a software upgrade. It seems to me that Apple is perfectly content leapfrogging hardware then software upgrades in addition to yearly spec bumps. Next year, though, iPhone loses the numeral. iPad never had one.
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2011-10-04, 21:16

The 'S' could be for so many words like, small, speedy, Siri. But I think it's just a way to position this as an evolutionary upgrade just as the 3GS was to the the 3G.

We really shouldn't be surprised by what Apple does any more. I mean apart from the odd 'OMG' releases like the iMac G4, the Cube and perhaps the 2nd gen iPod Nano (since the first one was such a hit), Apple pretty much has evolutionary upgrades. The rumour sites get their page hits through unsubstantiated sources and throws everyone into a frenzy.

I disappointed there isn't a larger display. The iPhone 4 is the most popular iPhone sold. And I'm guessing Apple knows that many wouldn't have jumped at a true iPhone 5 given that they're still locked into 2 or 3 year contracts. These stats along with demand, and the overall market conditions, will drive the product cycle.
  quote
Xaqtly
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-10-04, 21:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Yeah, but you know people talk to their phones a lot. All the time, actually, it's called "having a conversation."
Well as I said, I can't do that in the office. I have to go outside to have a phone conversation, or presumably to use Siri. In the car, my phone is connected to my car's head unit via bluetooth and the phone itself is stored away under the armrest where the USB port is. I don't believe I'll be able to use Siri that way either. And finally, if I understand how it works correctly, it's more like having a conversation on speakerphone while holding it in front of you, not having a conversation like you normally would with the phone pressed against the side of your head with the screen off. A small but crucial difference, and hence the "beam me up" reference.

I'm about the farthest thing from a luddite, so I'm going to put it to the test for sure. I just can't see that many ways I'm going to realistically be able to use it on a regular or a "hey I need to do this now" basis. It is literally the difference between, while out to dinner with my gf and her mom, pulling out my phone and setting an alert to remind me to buy toilet paper by silently typing it in and then locking the screen, and saying it out loud.

  quote
Noel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
 
2011-10-04, 22:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
On Cards

I love this app. Someone on Twitter said it was too expensive. I don't know where they buy their cards (I get mine at Target), but $2.99 for a card — especially a embossed one with a custom photo — isn't expensive at all. A lot of regular "funny" cards — no embossing, no foil, obviously no photo — are $3. And that doesn't include postage.

My sister asked if you can have them include iTunes gift cards. I am 100% sure that this is going to be a feature in the future.
I thought it was too expensive at first, until I remembered what cards in Target/Hallmark/etc. cost. Very reasonable, considering that.

As far as the name goes, I'm ok with it. The "S" on both the 3GS and now 4S has always struck me as carrying the same implications as the "S" (or "Sport") versions of cars: they look essentially the same, but have additional features that make them perform significantly better. I'm sure they'll call the next (sixth) iPhone the iPhone 5, since now the numbering is going by design and design alone. We'll all — well, maybe not us but, you know, normal people — will very shortly forget that there was never an iPhone 2 and that the 3G wasn't just the third design.
  quote
addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2011-10-04, 22:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
Well as I said, I can't do that in the office. I have to go outside to have a phone conversation, or presumably to use Siri. In the car, my phone is connected to my car's head unit via bluetooth and the phone itself is stored away under the armrest where the USB port is. I don't believe I'll be able to use Siri that way either. And finally, if I understand how it works correctly, it's more like having a conversation on speakerphone while holding it in front of you, not having a conversation like you normally would with the phone pressed against the side of your head with the screen off. A small but crucial difference, and hence the "beam me up" reference.

I'm about the farthest thing from a luddite, so I'm going to put it to the test for sure. I just can't see that many ways I'm going to realistically be able to use it on a regular or a "hey I need to do this now" basis. It is literally the difference between, while out to dinner with my gf and her mom, pulling out my phone and setting an alert to remind me to buy toilet paper by silently typing it in and then locking the screen, and saying it out loud.

Good points, although if you're typing reminders to buy toilet paper while having dinner with your girl friend and her mom there may be issues beyond talking to your hardware.

But definitely not going to be the go to solution for every situation. Still, I spend a lot of time in my car or walking around, so I will have plenty of opportunities to input tasks or queries. Particularly in the car, being able to just holler "Where's the nearest gas?" and get spoken feedback would be pretty great.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2011-10-04, 23:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel View Post
I thought it was too expensive at first, until I remembered what cards in Target/Hallmark/etc. cost. Very reasonable, considering that.
I just got back from Target and I checked the price of a bunch of cards out of curiosity. They were all either $2.79 or $2.99, and I was just checking regular printed cards. Cards with foil or embossing usually cost more, and then there's the cost of the stamp and a photo print. They had a section of 99c cards, but I didn't like any of them — they were smaller and more akin to the generic "Thank you" or "Happy Halloween" cards you buy in packs of eight or ten.

It's actually a very affordable option, all things considered. They didn't want it to be a thing only a few people would use, like their photo books. They wanted it to be a thing lots of people would use, and they priced it aggressively (IMO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel
As far as the name goes, I'm ok with it. The "S" on both the 3GS and now 4S has always struck me as carrying the same implications as the "S" (or "Sport") versions of cars: they look essentially the same, but have additional features that make them perform significantly better.
Or they just slap "S" onto their models willy-nilly, to sound fancier or have brandable names.

I suppose it could be worse. iPhone 4 sDrive35i.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-10-05, 00:18

I will be upgrading to one in February, as will my wife. I like what Apple did here.
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Mac+
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2011-10-05, 00:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Me, too. It was largely a dull keynote, but the 4S is a perfectly solid product, and I'll be upgrading for a 3G. After all, four or possibly eight times the RAM (from 128 to 512 or 1024 MB), a much, much faster CPU and GPU (412 MHz single-core to probably 800-1000 MHz dual-core), lots of random added features (compass, gyroscope, video recording, much better camera, much better GPS), improved cellular (from 3.6 Mbit/sec down/384 kbit/sec up to 14.4 Mbit/sec down/5.8 Mbit/sec up), and so on. And I get to use iOS 5; the 3G was limited to 4.2.1. Plus, far fewer reasons to jailbreak: multitasking and tethering become official, notifications will work better, and so forth. Not to mention all the apps that either officially or, worse, effectively(!) don't work properly on the 3G. It's just three generations, and yet a huge jump.
Agree - although tethering was officially available in Australia already. This is a great update for those on the 3G!
  quote
Chinney
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2011-10-05, 05:35

I agree that it is a solid update, and especially so with the accompanying release of iOS5. But with no new physical design and no "5" added to the name of the phone itself, there is a lot of complaining on the web that Apple has lost its mojo. Perception is more important than reality. Apple has generally been pretty good at managing perception with its releases over the last number of years. Not this time.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.

Last edited by Chinney : 2011-10-05 at 07:16. Reason: fixed typo
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addabox
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2011-10-05, 06:50

Oh, I dunno, it seems like pretty much every time Apple does anything there is lot of complaining that Apple has lost its mojo, jumped the shark, stopped caring, become entirely preoccupied by the wrong thing, is content to print money while coasting, etc.

Typically during the run-up to a new hardware release a bunch of rumored stuff becomes completely expected so that when it doesn't happen Apple is also guilty of not managing the "hype."

And then Apple sells umpteen jillion of them. Will the 4s suddenly propel Apple past Android in terms of unit sales? Of course not. But it will sell very very well, better than the old model, while the $99 and free models will increase all over iPhone sales, and Apple's profits will continue to soar, and in general the negative talk won't mean a thing.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-05, 07:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Oh, I dunno, it seems like pretty much every time Apple does anything there is lot of complaining that Apple has lost its mojo, jumped the shark, stopped caring, become entirely preoccupied by the wrong thing, is content to print money while coasting, etc.

Typically during the run-up to a new hardware release a bunch of rumored stuff becomes completely expected so that when it doesn't happen Apple is also guilty of not managing the "hype."

And then Apple sells umpteen jillion of them. Will the 4s suddenly propel Apple past Android in terms of unit sales? Of course not. But it will sell very very well, better than the old model, while the $99 and free models will increase all over iPhone sales, and Apple's profits will continue to soar, and in general the negative talk won't mean a thing.
That's partially true, but this time is a little different. Even up to a few weeks ago the NY Times and WSJ were each reporting that Apple would be releasing the iPhone 5. These are very reputable sources and traditionally Apple has used them to "leak" information to adjust expectations accordingly. Apple didn't do a very good job this time around.

I don't think there were last minute changes, because something of this scale needs to be planned months in advance, but I do think something happened with the development cycle to cause the iPhone 4S to be released this late.... whether it was hardware issues with the iPhone 5 or the delay in finishing iCloud and iOS 5..... it seems like this update was planned for much earlier.

Just my opinion.
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-05, 07:13

Sure, you might be right, but it seems like "this time is different" also gets said every time. Because the expectations are always through the roof, because one major media outlet or another printed some rumors, or claimed to have reliable sources, because various pundits have put forward a scenario wherein Apple "must" do this or that or face the beginning of the end, because Apple "had to" counter some earlier misstep or competitive pressure, etc.

At any rate, I don't think any of that matters, even if some of it is true. The vast majority of the people who will end buying the iPhone 4s, 4 and 3Gs don't pay any attention at all to any of this stuff. Most of them don't live in the US. Increasing numbers of them will be in emerging markets.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-05, 07:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Sure, you might be right, but it seems like "this time is different" also gets said every time. Because the expectations are always through the roof, because one major media outlet or another printed some rumors, or claimed to have reliable sources, because various pundits have put forward a scenario wherein Apple "must" do this or that or face the beginning of the end, because Apple "had to" counter some earlier misstep or competitive pressure, etc.-
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...trolled_leaks/
  quote
MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
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Location: New York
 
2011-10-05, 07:42

I've had some time to digest the announcement. I see a very solid upgrade. One I would get without hesitation if I were upgrade eligible. It's much faster and has Siri, which seems to be an absolute killer feature. People don't use voice control because it sucks. But that's about to change.

I actually love that the case design is the same. Also, i made a comment yesterday about Apple not announcing this at WWDC -- the (now) obvious point is that it wasn't ready yet for production/keep selling older iPhone 4/iOS 5 probably wasn't ready yet. Thanks to whomever pointed that out.
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