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Ack! MCSE is overrated.


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Ack! MCSE is overrated.
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Wickers
is not a kind of basket
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-06-02, 11:53

Quick background information: I fix computers "under the table" for pocket change. But I am not certified.

Ok, well get this.... I went around to different computer repair shops yesterday and asked each one "what sort of base-line education are you looking for when hiring computer technicians?"

I got some standard responses, mostly what I expected. A+, and a little experience.

But then, when asking the two shops I want to work at most, they told me that they look for MCSE as a must.

MCSE!?!?!?

I think it is overkill for someone who is going to be fixing PCs. The job does not include setting up a network environment or advanced server support so why would they want me to have that knowledge? I mean, if I wanted to fuck my life over with an IT career I would gladly go for it... but for doing what I do now (only for a store and not on my own) MCSE is a bit much.

A+ I can completely understand... as well as other CompTIA certs, but this is bull. All the work I do right now (repair, new builds, upgrades, home networking and a few others) does not require Microsoft. All my software tools are Linux or FreeDOS based. The only reason I would need MCSE would be if I am repairing servers, on-site, and deep in a networking tangle. But these shops are aimed at home users so I don't think intimate knowledge of Server 2003 is gonna help me.

Right now, I am about to finish getting my CCNA. I am getting it through my high school, and don't have to pay a cent for it. This summer I will be taking the A+ exams... and I was planning on getting my Linux+ cert just for kicks.

Does anyone here have any certs? MCSE?
Does anyone here fix computers for a living? Hobby?
Is anyone here planning on getting such certs?
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Paul
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York City
 
2004-06-02, 11:57

well I wasn't planning on it... but reading this thread has intrigued me...

A+ eh? what does that entail?
know where I can get a bit more information about it?

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People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one business model. -EvilTwinSkippy (/.)
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Akumulator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2004-06-02, 13:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
well I wasn't planning on it... but reading this thread has intrigued me...

A+ eh? what does that entail?
know where I can get a bit more information about it?
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Wickers
is not a kind of basket
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-06-02, 13:13

Paul,

You can get more information about A+ certification here.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
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2004-06-02, 13:27

well, if it makes you feel any better, when i'm hiring i view MSCE as a negative to be overcome, not a positive on someone's resume.

given two identical applicants, one with, one without MSCE, i'll take the non MSCE every time.
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Wickers
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-06-02, 13:47

Really?

What is it about MCSE that you find to be a negative?

And what kind of jobs do you fill?

Last edited by Wickers : 2004-06-02 at 15:00.
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EDS66
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
 
2004-06-02, 14:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
well, if it makes you feel any better, when i'm hiring i view MSCE as a negative to be overcome, not a positive on someone's resume.

given two identical applicants, one with, one without MSCE, i'll take the non MSCE every time.
I am sorry, but I disagree. Given ceteris paribus conditions, an MCSE will 99 percent of the time know more than a non-MCSE. Formal education, even if it takes form of a certificate, and when buttressed by experience, is always better than knowledge obtained from experience only.

Now, if you said that given two applicants, one with considerable experience in the field and one with limited experience but with an MCSE, then I would understand your point of view.

I work with MCSEs and non-MCSEs all the time, and frankly, I find MCSEs with 3 years and above experience to be better than their colleagues without MCSEs. MCSE-certified individuals have a more comprehensive understanding of the problem at hand and they can more effectively draw on other areas of Microsoft Networking to find solutions.

Just my two cents.
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alcimedes
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2004-06-02, 14:48

i work at a big 10 university. we have a lot of platforms here, and i've found (so far) every MSCE that's been hired, to be knowledgeable about the MS areas of computers, but ignorant (and unwilling) to learn the others.

the last thing i need is some dill hole who thinks every answer is ready in a shrink wrapped MS box. sure, there's a lot you can do with active directory, but are you recommending that because that's all/what you know, or did you look into Samba and find out it won't do what we're looking for.

to me MSCE's are a tightly focused flashlight beam. nice and bright in a limited breadth.

i want someone who might not have as sharp of a focus in one particular area, but who's willing to look into other areas for the answers. you can always learn more about a subject if you need to know more about it. but if you've been "trained" so to speak to look for the answers in one place, then that's the only place you're going to find answers.
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Wickers
is not a kind of basket
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-06-02, 15:04

Well on that note, I guess I will get my Linux+ cert along with MCSE. . .

Tell me, does Apple offer any certs for computer repair?
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EDS66
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2004-06-02, 15:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
i work at a big 10 university. we have a lot of platforms here, and i've found (so far) every MSCE that's been hired, to be knowledgeable about the MS areas of computers, but ignorant (and unwilling) to learn the others.

the last thing i need is some dill hole who thinks every answer is ready in a shrink wrapped MS box. sure, there's a lot you can do with active directory, but are you recommending that because that's all/what you know, or did you look into Samba and find out it won't do what we're looking for.

to me MSCE's are a tightly focused flashlight beam. nice and bright in a limited breadth.

i want someone who might not have as sharp of a focus in one particular area, but who's willing to look into other areas for the answers. you can always learn more about a subject if you need to know more about it. but if you've been "trained" so to speak to look for the answers in one place, then that's the only place you're going to find answers.

I understand a little better why you were saying what you were saying. In a multi-platform shop other variables do become important. But there are plenty of firms out there who are one-stop Microsoft shops. The company I work for full time, for example, is one of those shops. We deliver turnkey Microsoft solutions to small business. I do have to deal with an occasional Mac here and there, but very infrequently and very briefly. In this context, an MCSE with experience is better, plain and simple, than a person with experience but without an MCSE.

In my private business, however, I have to be “ambidextrous”, when it comes to the two platforms, but still have to call on other sources when confronted with Linux problems. So, granted, the relevancy of an MCSE to a position where premium is on, let’s say, Linux, is limited.

That said, I still think that an MCSE who has worked in mixed platform environments, who has a modicum of respect for other non-Microsoft computer professionals, and who actually works in a position requiring Microsoft expertise, would bring structured Microsoft knowledge to the table and thus do better than a person with similar qualifications but with no MCSE.
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Wickers
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-06-02, 15:30

That post got me thinking...


I am going to add to my resumé that I can easily work in a mixed platform environment because of the platform diversity within my home.
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EDS66
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2004-06-02, 15:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by \/\/ickes
That post got me thinking...


I am going to add to my resumé that I can easily work in a mixed platform environment because of the platform diversity within my home.
Well, you can say whatever you want. But can you back it up? Most places out there will give you a test of sorts, a simple scenario or two, which you will need to address. I have seent fresh MCSEs who couldn't really explain the difference between DNS and WINS, but then again, I've seen some, who did not need calculators for difficult subnetting questions. It's all about what you can prove, but having the actual cert helps.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
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2004-06-02, 15:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by \/\/ickes
Tell me, does Apple offer any certs for computer repair?
Absolutely.
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alcimedes
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2004-06-02, 17:10

Quote:
That said, I still think that an MCSE who has worked in mixed platform environments, who has a modicum of respect for other non-Microsoft computer professionals, and who actually works in a position requiring Microsoft expertise, would bring structured Microsoft knowledge to the table and thus do better than a person with similar qualifications but with no MCSE.
the problem i've found is the respect and experience. but, it could have just been slim pickings a while back. the way the job market is now? probably wouldn't be so bad.

i should also note i would never require it for a position, and if a place did, i'd be shy about wanting to work there.
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autodata
hustlin
 
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2004-06-19, 13:35

Relevant article:

Hiding Behind Certification
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_Ω_
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2004-06-19, 19:54

I do tutoring at a University and it scares me when I see people who basically have no idea, copies everything from the internet, passes, and then goes out into the workforce.

(<--- "eek", not "surprised")
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Lip5
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2021-03-23, 02:25

Australian furniture brand poopypoints

It's a good thing I'm not Murbot, or I would have said something!

That said, GTFO!

~ Kscherer

Last edited by kscherer : 2021-03-23 at 11:28.
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_Ω_
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2021-03-23, 04:02

FYI. I no longer tutor at a University
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chucker
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2021-03-23, 04:02

Sir, this is a Wendy's.
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Bryson
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2021-03-23, 09:13

Am I having a stroke?
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chucker
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2021-03-23, 10:05

Are you getting a Dell?
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