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iPhone - AT&T (Cingular)
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Kraetos
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2007-04-30, 15:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by tensdanny38 View Post
You assume entirely too much Kraetos.
Care to back that up?
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chucker
 
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2007-04-30, 15:35

Note that:
1) in Leopard, any NSTextView supports Word 2003 XML, Office Open XML (and therefore Word 2007) and OASIS OpenDocument (and therefore OpenOffice.org Writer),
2) the iPhone ships with some form of Leopard, including Cocoa (of which NSTextView is a class).

Making it possible, if not likely, that any text edited on the iPhone (say, an e-mail) can already work just fine with the newest Word out of the box.

In addition, as Kraetos said, Mail can already interact with an Exchange Server, and iCal has always used the same calendar format as Windows Calendar and Outlook do. Outlook 2007 introduces the same subscription facility iCal has had since 1.0, and Windows Calendar and Mozilla Sunbird support that mechanism as well.

So, we already have notes, word processing, calendar and e-mail covered, leaving us only with a spreadsheet.

For the relatively simple types of data you work with on a smartphone, compatibility is nowhere near as gloomy as you would think.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2007-04-30, 15:50

I ended up deciding against the iPhone for two reasons. The biggest reason is because I get a 50% discount with Helio, so unless AT&T introduces some iPhone miracle plan, I'll be paying more than twice as much each month. This really isn't Apple's "fault."

The other, lesser reason is that I'm not exactly sold on texting using the touchscreen. If I only had a chance to actually use the iPhone before I had to make my decision...

...but at least I don't have to sign a contract with Helio.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2007-04-30, 16:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
I ended up deciding against the iPhone for two reasons. The biggest reason is because I get a 50% discount with Helio, so unless AT&T introduces some iPhone miracle plan, I'll be paying more than twice as much each month. This really isn't Apple's "fault."

The other, lesser reason is that I'm not exactly sold on texting using the touchscreen. If I only had a chance to actually use the iPhone before I had to make my decision...

...but at least I don't have to sign a contract with Helio.
How do you get a 50% discount? Something with Gamestop?
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Kraetos
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2007-04-30, 16:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
The other, lesser reason is that I'm not exactly sold on texting using the touchscreen. If I only had a chance to actually use the iPhone before I had to make my decision...
Yeah, I'll let everyone know how that is. But I'm confident it will work pretty well.

I'm on the waiting list at the local Cingular store.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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cosus
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2007-04-30, 16:41

I'm pretty confident with new keyboard technology. I mean once you are able to remove buttons, there goes needing to press anything or sticky keys, easier to clean and dirt, fewer moving parts, just less to go wrong. I'm also a strong believer in we get use to anything. I mean hell, who ever imagined texting with 9 keys would be so popular?

Retired 8 years ahead of schedule.
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Graphguy
can't type
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2007-04-30, 16:43

Quote:
1) in Leopard, any NSTextView supports Word 2003 XML, Office Open XML (and therefore Word 2007) and OASIS OpenDocument (and therefore OpenOffice.org Writer),
That's all good and swell, but:

A: Hardly any businesses use OO.
B: Hardly any businesses have migrated to Office 2007, and won't for a while. Some are still stuck with Office XP.

The great thing about MS Office is that you do't have to worry about if other people can read your documents, I doubt that any professional users would throw that security out the window, just because of a shiny new phone.
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2007-04-30, 16:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
What chucker said.

And no, its not easy to make a CDMA version. You don't just swap a few chips. The two technologies are very different.



Millions of CDMA users. Hundreds of millions of GSM users. The former is continually losing customers to the latter.

Easy choice.
1. Who are you to make that statement? Right before your eyes there is clear fact that Apple is willing to go the extra step to make a localized version of the phone, a Japanese WCDMA version, which will be different than the iPhone nearly everywhere else. Japan's market is infinitely smaller than the American CDMA market. You simply are not making sense.
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cosus
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2007-04-30, 16:45

I imagine that Apple thought of the cultural impact of Japan and felt it was worth while. While in the US, it will have the largest network behind them and in Europe it is the most popular standard.

Retired 8 years ahead of schedule.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2007-04-30, 16:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
1. Who are you to make that statement? Right before your eyes there is clear fact that Apple is willing to go the extra step to make a localized version of the phone, a Japanese WCDMA version, which will be different than the iPhone nearly everywhere else. Japan's market is infinitely smaller than the American CDMA market. You simply are not making sense.
Can you link me the article about the Japanese iPhone? I'm afraid I've not seen it.

Thanks.
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Brave Ulysses
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2007-04-30, 16:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Can you link me the article about the Japanese iPhone? I'm afraid I've not seen it.

Thanks.
And for your info, there are also several HUNDRED million CDMA phones across the globe as well. Your argument about there not being a big enough market to make it worth it is not very compelling.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2007-04-30, 16:57

^

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chucker
 
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2007-04-30, 17:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Right before your eyes there is clear fact that Apple is willing to go the extra step to make a localized version of the phone, a Japanese WCDMA version, which will be different than the iPhone nearly everywhere else.
Except that the Japanese version will effectively be the precursor to the international 3G version, with FOMA and UMTS being so similar. Alternatively, they might even skip that step and just go straight from GSM in the US to GSM in the US and Europe to 3GSM/FOMA/UMTS in the US, Europe and Asia.
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*Joe*
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2007-04-30, 17:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
And for your info, there are also several HUNDRED million CDMA phones across the globe as well. Your argument about there not being a big enough market to make it worth it is not very compelling.
But if you actually look at the countries that have CDMA networks, other than the USA most of them are less economically developed countires. Just look at Nokia's CDMA offering it is primarily composed of low cost handsets that are targetted at a poorer market than it's GSM offering.
If you looked at the number of CDMA subscribers who could actually afford an iPhone then the appeal would be reduced greatly (outside the USA).
GSM was an obvious choice because it is the most popular network standard in the world and more importantly it is the primary 2G network standard in Europe which is the biggest cellular market.

What does surprise me though is that apple did not opt for a 3G network standard, the phone is crippled by this lack of insight, services like music downloads, web browsing, video streaming, video calling are becoming increasingly popular in Europe and East Asia as well as Australasia; where large 3G networks are established.
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cosus
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2007-04-30, 17:25

I thought 3G was deemed a failure in Europe?
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PSM
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2007-04-30, 18:33

My main concern about the iPhone is Cingular/ATT. I ran screaming away from them at 8AM on the morning cell phone number portability was introduced so that I could take my number to Verizon where I would actually be able to make and receive calls. I was with AT&T for six miserable years (both TDMA and GSM) but wasn't in a position to change my phone number. Their bad coverage in NYC made it very difficult for me to work because my phone would drop and garble calls in my apartment, in theatres, just in buildings in general (even when pressed against the window). It's my only phone, it's my business phone, and it made me feel very unprofessional.

Granted I left AT&T in 2003, which is ages in terms of technology, but it was a nightmare, and in observing my friends I have never been convinced that any other carrier offers the reliability in NYC that Verizon does. When a friend says, "Hold on, my phone doesn't get good reception in here," I always ask who they have. It's everyone else, never Verizon. I think Verizon is an evil corporation who gouges customers because they know they can, and cripples phones because they obviously love money more than providing a quality product, so I have no love for them. I would love nothing more than for AT&T to get it together and have a huge success with the iPhone, and for Verizon to lose all their customers because they refused to cooperate with Apple in making a phone that has useful features.

I just don't want to be the guinea pig. I worry both about the untested technology in the iPhone (reception, battery life), and my long and horrible experience with AT&T's coverage in buildings. If the iPhone release goes OK I will want to try it, but I'm going to pay for and carry two phones at once for a month or two before I trust it.

I can't wait until the damn thing is out and people's real-life experiences start coming in. There are so many unknowns right now it's hard to say if I'll want it at all.
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torifile
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2007-04-30, 19:55

All this talk about the iPhone being expensive has missed one very important point: it is an iPod AND a phone. This is how most customers are going to look at it. $250 for an iPod and $250 for a damned cool phone. That's a really easy decision, if the success of the one-trick pony known as the RAZR is any indication (and at 50+ million sold, it's a pretty big success).

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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joveblue
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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2007-04-30, 20:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphguy View Post
Unlike the portable MP3player, cellphones are allready a pretty mature market. Most people already have their preferences,
Most people don't like anything on offer at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphguy View Post
Open-shmopen... I'm sure someone the iPhone would fit someone like you nicely, but when it comes to corporate users, it's got to be compatible with the software they already use. And 95% of the time, that means Outlook, Word and all the other Microsoft goodies. (Ok, occasionally Lotus Notes)
Open formats means that iPhone will be able to read and edit them, no problem. If this isn't a feature at release, it will be before too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphguy
I'm sure you mean keypad, and I guess you never tried sending an email with predictive input, like the iPhone is going to have.
It's fine for short messages, but not for lot's of emails or for finishing a report.
Do you even know anything about the iPhone? It has full QWERTY, not predictive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphguy View Post
B: Hardly any businesses have migrated to Office 2007, and won't for a while. Some are still stuck with Office XP.
The iPhone isn't even out yet. Lots more businesses will move to Office 2007 before the release of Office 2007, and many more will continue to do so after the release of the iPhone. 2007 is actually a half-decent office suite.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2007-04-30, 20:15

Right on, brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
Do you even know anything about the iPhone? It has full QWERTY, not predictive.

The iPhone isn't even out yet. Lots more businesses will move to Office 2007 before the release of Office 2007, and many more will continue to do so after the release of the iPhone. 2007 is actually a half-decent office suite.
Totally. The iPhone has more than full QWERTY, even, it has error correction built in. So if you miss and type Aoole it will correct itself to Apple - that kinda thing.

And yeah. The world is moving towards open formats. Microsoft is moving slower than the rest, but even they are embracing XML, Java, etc. The iPhone looks forward towards the free exchange of information, not backwards towards the dark ages of Microsoft domination*.

*Hey, that rhymed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
And for your info, there are also several HUNDRED million CDMA phones across the globe as well. Your argument about there not being a big enough market to make it worth it is not very compelling.
Okay...

There's no denying that GSM has more customers now, and there's even less doubt that GSM is the future of mobile technology.

Do you seriously foresee a CDMA iPhone? Because I sure don't. Even when it hits 3G, it'll be HSDPA, not EV-DO or W-CDMA. It's just a matter of numbers.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2007-04-30 at 20:15. Reason: Posts merged
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thegelding
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2007-04-30, 20:41

too bad....i would buy one as soon as they came out....but verizon has the best coverage by far in my area. i don't travel out of the country often (once every few years) and all my family are verizon customers (at least 20 of us)....

so untill they market an iPhone for verizon i guess i will have to wait...no biggie i guess....

maybe verizon will go gsm or g3 or whatever, but whatever they are now works great in the US at least


g

crazy is not a rare human condition

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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2007-04-30, 21:23

Quote:
The iPhone isn't even out yet. Lots more businesses will move to Office 2007 before the release of Office 2007, and many more will continue to do so after the release of the iPhone. 2007 is actually a half-decent office suite.
I'm not sure what you are arguing but offices tend to adopt new software surprisingly slowly. Its not abnormal to have an office full of office 2001 or whatever

Quote:
Okay...

There's no denying that GSM has more customers now, and there's even less doubt that GSM is the future of mobile technology.

Do you seriously foresee a CDMA iPhone? Because I sure don't. Even when it hits 3G, it'll be HSDPA, not EV-DO or W-CDMA. It's just a matter of numbers.
I don't know why you are so favorable towards making this an iPhone vs. CDMA scenario. Why not make it a level playing field and make it iPhone vs. other phones. The fact that people have to choose provider vs. provider and not phone vs. phone is not the best way to make major marketshare gains off the bat, especially in an industry where multi-year contracts are the norm.

And when you are talking hundreds of millions of customers, even if a smaller percentage, you would have to be stupid to ignore it.

Last edited by Brave Ulysses : 2007-04-30 at 21:38.
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scratt
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2007-04-30, 21:33

CDMA iPhone!
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2007-04-30, 22:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphguy View Post
That's all good and swell, but:

A: Hardly any businesses use OO.
B: Hardly any businesses have migrated to Office 2007, and won't for a while. Some are still stuck with Office XP.

The great thing about MS Office is that you do't have to worry about if other people can read your documents, I doubt that any professional users would throw that security out the window, just because of a shiny new phone.
You are 100% correct. Don't worry about what the fanboys say. No way does this thing get adopted into the Verizon-dominated workplace. RIM will not go down because of Lotus Notes and homebrew database syncing.

These guys do not understand that companies that have real world business and customers do not move fast. They let technology become adapted, kinks worked out, etc. Hell, my company of over 100,000 employees world-wide was irrate when they had to move to SP2 for xp on their new systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
All this talk about the iPhone being expensive has missed one very important point: it is an iPod AND a phone. This is how most customers are going to look at it. $250 for an iPod and $250 for a damned cool phone. That's a really easy decision, if the success of the one-trick pony known as the RAZR is any indication (and at 50+ million sold, it's a pretty big success).
Right, but everyone already has an iPod. I don't think its going to take off, at least initially, because of this reason. Cost is simply too high. Same reason PS3 hasn't taken off and won't at that price; but thats a different story. Also, you're failing to neglect that the Razr was 99 dollars with a new contract about 6-9 months after its release. It was not a big hit initially. Now they are everywhere. Several years later.

600 is simply too much for a phone/iPod/whatever. They could get a laptop for that much and a free phone.

Last edited by Partial : 2007-04-30 at 22:29. Reason: Posts merged
  quote
Graphguy
can't type
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2007-04-30, 22:29

Quote:
All this talk about the iPhone being expensive has missed one very important point: it is an iPod AND a phone. This is how most customers are going to look at it.
Meh, don't really think people care that much about a device being multifunctional. Sony Ericsson makes a phone that's a great mp3player, but even though it's popular, it's not like people have been going crazy over it. Can't really think of a device that's been a huge succes just because of the fact that it's multifunctional.
Besides everyone and their dog already have an ipod, so the ipod+phone argument kinda goes out the window.

Quote:
Most people don't like anything on offer at the moment.
Huh?!? You build that on what exactly? Purely your own opinion? I've heard a lot of ridiculous rants and moanings through the years, but the lack of a good cellphone is a new one.

Quote:
Open formats means that iPhone will be able to read and edit them, no problem. If this isn't a feature at release, it will be before too long.
You don't really get it... It doesn't matter what kinds of wonderful open formats the iphone supports, if nobody but you uses them. In the business world, it's MS Office, period.

Quote:
Lots more businesses will move to Office 2007 before the release of Office 2007, and many more will continue to do so after the release of the iPhone. 2007 is actually a half-decent office suite.
I aree with you that Office 97 is half-decent, I'll even go one over, and say that it's a great office-suite. But if you know anything about businesses, you would know that they're slow on updating. There's lots of companies out there that still use Office XP, it's what... 7 years old? No there won't be "lots of businesses" moving to Office 2007 anytime soon.

Quote:
There's no denying that GSM has more customers now, and there's even less doubt that GSM is the future of mobile technology.
Whaa?!? Isn't 3G the future of mobile technology?
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scratt
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2007-04-30, 22:33

3G is the future, or some derivative / 3.5G version will be. Hutchinson, managed to screw up 3G for everyone, and are still reeling from the setup costs, and the low adoption rate. Hence the fact that it's name keeps changing as other companies buy it out / bail it out.

However, globally GSM is, and will be for some time, the main system.
It's a bit like VHS, DVD and HDVD / BluRay.
It's going to be a while before DVD is dead, and VHS is still alive and kicking out there in the real world!
BluRay and HDVD are still niche markets, and will be for some time.

I do share some peoples fears about the iPhone being too expensive. But here in Asia, it's not actually that expensive in phone terms. Most of us buy our phones without a contract, and most of us upgrade yearly. For that matter I think you may find that the iPhone is more sucessful overseas, where people are used to paying more, and not being tied to a phone company. Hense the specialised Japanese versions (unique massively high spending market), and the choice of GSM for the initial model.

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bassplayinMacFiend
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2007-05-01, 08:04

Actually, Office XP was released around 2002. I know because I migrated from Office 2K to XP sometime late last year. At the beginning of this year I received a new laptop with WinXP. Until this point I had been using Win2K. Compared to the general public, bigger corps move to new technology very slowly. No reason to break a working system just to be on the bleeding edge. Regression testing has to be performed to make sure every piece of software, both commercial and homegrown, work properly on the new systems.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2007-05-01, 08:09

Hm, for big corporation, yes, I do expect that they'll upgrade very slow.

But am not I mistaken that when you looik at GDP, a significant portion of GDP is produced by small business, independent dealers and other assorted small-times rather than big corporations? It would be those business owners who would have much more mobility and can easily upgrade software, no? That'd where I'd look for if I wanted to profit off the upgrading to 2007 thingy if I were Mircosoft.
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chucker
 
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2007-05-01, 08:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
But am not I mistaken that when you looik at GDP, a significant portion of GDP is produced by small business, independent dealers and other assorted small-times rather than big corporations? It would be those business owners who would have much more mobility and can easily upgrade software, no? That'd where I'd look for if I wanted to profit off the upgrading to 2007 thingy if I were Mircosoft.
Correct. Big corporations are always slow to adopt new technologies, which isn't relevant because they have never been particularly interesting for Apple. It's the smaller, more agile companies that matter.
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Partial
Stallion
 
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2007-05-01, 10:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
Hm, for big corporation, yes, I do expect that they'll upgrade very slow.

But am not I mistaken that when you looik at GDP, a significant portion of GDP is produced by small business, independent dealers and other assorted small-times rather than big corporations? It would be those business owners who would have much more mobility and can easily upgrade software, no? That'd where I'd look for if I wanted to profit off the upgrading to 2007 thingy if I were Mircosoft.
You really think small business owners are going to spend that sort of bank on an iPhone? My dad and his brothers run a small business, and I know several other small business owners, and considering that for the most part they are all investors with their profits, I highly, highly, highly doubt this will even be on their radar.

You might get the occasional hipster 30something wanna-be-cool in his express button down and grey pinstriped sport coat with his sunglasses and the sports luxury sedan he can't really afford owning one, but the people that are 40+ that have common sense, kids, etc (aka most adults) are not going to be wasting their money on such a thing.

I think primarily this will be a big hit with the college kids (like the ones around here), that have entirely too much money because their parents pay their tuition or they are taking out loans, and have little or zero understanding of how to balance money, what is a smart purchase, etc.

I would expect someone like you Kraetos(not a dig; you are welcome to do whatever makes you happy) to purchase an iPhone. After all, you did have two laptops, now upgraded to a top of the line laptop and purchasing a brand new top of the line computer. That is exactly whom Apple is trying to rip-off and take advantage of. 20somethings and younger that have money burning a hole in their pocket.
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turtle
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2007-05-01, 10:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by tensdanny38 View Post
You really think small business owners are going to spend that sort of bank on an iPhone? My dad and his brothers run a small business, and I know several other small business owners, and considering that for the most part they are all investors with their profits, I highly, highly, highly doubt this will even be on their radar.
Your statement is too generalizing. I fit in to the category of your dad and brothers and the iPhone is on my RADAR. Bottom line is the need depends on the individual. For now, as much as I want the iPhone, I'm going to have to wait and see how it stands again my WM6 phone.

Don't think everyone has the same mind set because you know some small business owners. It's all about where they put their priorities. To me, mobile communication is highly important. I don't need a BlackBerry and my PDA Phone with WM6 covers my needs well. If the iPhone will save me time, then it will be worth the investment. If I'm buying it as a doodad, then I'll have to weigh when the right time will be to indulge for me.

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